Topic: Red Dyed Hardware

[PerkinsRestoration]

To clear up a possible misconception, -S100 is a special finish documented on the drawing for that part. It is not exclusively a red dye as many 64-66 hardware item use -S100 prior to the red being used. All told, there are over 500 hardware items in my 64-73 Mustang hardware data base with -S100 finishes, plus an additional 100 that use -S101, -S102, -S103 and -S104. Without the appropriate drawings, there's no way to tell except from personal experience.
Jim

Jim, The topic is red dyed hardware, the year 69-70, I stated in a previous post prior to yours " S100 on zinc phosphate is not always red ", did you not read that before you posted? This topic is not 64-66 related.

[Cobrajet428]

OK, so its good to know that the still-available Dykem opaque red dye is a good match for S100 red zinc phosphate, but what's the best available way to match red dichromate without re-plating? I've got ball joint stud nuts with good zinc and zinc dichromate (yellow) plating that I'd like to look like red dichromate.

[J_Speegle]

OK, so its good to know that the still-available Dykem opaque red dye is a good match for S100 red zinc phosphate, but what's the best available way to match red dichromate without re-plating?

IF your looking to fake red over phosphate with out plating guess you need to strip to bare steel, gun blue then dye

I've got ball joint stud nuts with good zinc and zinc dichromate (yellow) plating that I'd like to look like red dichromate.

Over zinc then strip the yellow die and add the dye over the base zinc

[Cobrajet428]

IF your looking to fake red over phosphate with out plating guess you need to strip to bare steel, gun blue then dye

Huh?
I asked what the best way was to fake red zinc dichromate, NOT red colored zinc phosphate.
Look, all I want to do is to color the nuts that hold the ball joints to the spindles. These nuts are supposed to have been originally red zinc dichromate. Mine are already plated in a mix of clear zinc and yellow zinc dichromate (some of each). I thought the transparent red dye would work great to color these, but it's not available.

I think I'll just use a red permanent marker. Just figured others might have a better alternative.

[CharlesTurner]

Did you look on ebay for Dykem red dye?  I bought some there a few months back.

Believe you will want to go over the shiny silver.  If you have some with gold, it can be removed to expose the clear zinc base.

[J_Speegle]

Ok lets try this again - sometimes the message gets lost or confused using just the written word.

I see two possible choices - you can take a small (like a baby food one) glass jar, add a small amount of rubbing alcohol (you can always add more) take apart one or two red sharpie pens and soak the woven wick in the jar for a few hours. This should produce a brushable red dye for you to use.

If you don't want to try that since your only doing four nuts you can send them to me (prepped the way you want them to be dyed) and I'll brush some red dye on all the surfaces, let them dry and send them back to you

Helpful?

[Cobrajet428]

Did you look on ebay for Dykem red dye?  I bought some there a few months back.

Believe you will want to go over the shiny silver.  If you have some with gold, it can be removed to expose the clear zinc base.

For reference:
Dykem 81496 is red and TRANSPARENT - this is the stuff that Jeff has been using and has apparently been discontinued by Dykem. This should have been a good coating for clear zinc or zinc dichromate to make it look like zinc red dichromate.
Dykem 81491 is red and OPAQUE - this is the stuff Perkins Restoration said that was a good match for zinc phosphate S100.

On Ebay:
A search for "Dykem 81496" turns up a single result: GALLON JUGS of OPAQUE staining colors for $279.
A search for "Dykem 81491" turns up a bottle and a jug of the OPAQUE red stuff. Don't need that, just checking anyway.
A search for "Dykem transparent red" or "Dykem red" turns up red LAYOUT FLUID (not the same stuff) and other things, but no 81496 or other TRANSPARENT red stains.
A search for "transparent staining color" returns irrelevant results.

You can't get the Dykem transparent red staining color any more.

[Cobrajet428]

Ok lets try this again - sometimes the message gets lost or confused using just the written word.

I see two possible choices - you can take a small (like a baby food one) glass jar, add a small amount of rubbing alcohol (you can always add more) take apart one or two red sharpie pens and soak the woven wick in the jar for a few hours. This should produce a brushable red dye for you to use.

If you don't want to try that since your only doing four nuts you can send them to me (prepped the way you want them to be dyed) and I'll brush some red dye on all the surfaces, let them dry and send them back to you

Helpful?

Jeff, I appreciate your suggestion with the sharpies and alcohol, and especially your offer to dye the nuts for me. I really didn't mean to lay it on you to provide a solution, just wanted everyone reading to be real clear what I was looking for. I really figured others would have tried various things and would share a good alternative to the Dykem transparent red dye.

I'm going to try the Sharpie route, as its easy enough, and if its not satisfactory, will take you up on your offer ... unless of course someone comes through with another solid product suggestion. 

[jwc66k]

There is a red transparent paint available at many hobby shops. I got a bottle of yellow transparent paint many years back to try to replicate gold zinc. It worked fair.
Jim

[Bob Gaines]

There is a red transparent paint available at many hobby shops. I got a bottle of yellow transparent paint many years back to try to replicate gold zinc. It worked fair.
Jim

This sounds like the transparent red paint that eastwood sells in there zinc dichromate faux look kit a silver,.green ,red ,and gold transparent paint .

[J_Speegle]

This sounds like the transparent red paint that eastwood sells in there zinc dichromate faux look kit a silver,.green ,red ,and gold transparent paint .

Agree sounds very similar



The whole issue concerning the provider is a bit confusing as is Dykem's labeling. Some reds are listed on bottle as staining color while others are layout fluid



The part number for the stuff I have (8 oz older version) is now used for the gallon size.


Then there is another 1 gallon size listed as DYKEM Staining Color - MODEL : 81791 Color: Red, by resalers   
Example http://www.ebay.com/itm/DYKEM-Staining-Color-MODEL-81791-Color-Red-Container-Size-1-Gallon-/321181072620?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac7e23cec


No company website that I could find that explains what they mean by transparent, stain, layup  and opaque

Thing I'll get some of the new stuff and see how it compares and looks once applied

Wonder what Max's (AMK) supplier is using to stain his hardware or what he is using if he's doing that in house

[CharlesTurner]

Has anyone tried the layout fluid?

[J_Speegle]

Has anyone tried the layout fluid?

Not for red - but I've used a spray blue layout for the galvanized steel metal stencils used on 69 Shelby's Worked fine for that Like any dye it will not hold up to allot of handling, wrenches or rubbing

Not sure how transparent it is guess allot depends on how thick you apply it also

[Blown351stang]

I have found some red layout dye (ink) and have done some test samples.I used a transparent and opaque ink on phosphate, zinc plated and yellow chromate bolts. For the people that have done this before or have seen the original bolts & nuts with the red markings I am just looking for a bit of feedback on my samples.This is mostly to do with a 1970 mustang.

Before


After

Top line transparent ink.
Bottom line opaque ink.
1 is a phosphate bolts
2 zinc plated
3 zinc yellow chromate

zinc & phosphate bolt


phosphate bolt



zinc bolt


phosphate bolt






With the opaque ink the bolt finish does not matter the look is the same.

The transparent looks better on the chromate after 3 or 4 coats but on the zinc its a bit pink and on the phosphate it doesn't stand out as much.

I have read on a post that phosphate bolts & nuts would be dyed with opaque ink and zinc plated would use transparent ink is this true?

[Bob Gaines]

I have found some red layout dye (ink) and have done some test samples.I used a transparent and opaque ink on phosphate, zinc plated and yellow chromate bolts. For the people that have done this before or have seen the original bolts & nuts with the red markings I am just looking for a bit of feedback on my samples.This is mostly to do with a 1970 mustang.

Before


After

Top line transparent ink.
Bottom line opaque ink.
1 is a phosphate bolts
2 zinc plated
3 zinc yellow chromate

zinc & phosphate bolt


phosphate bolt



zinc bolt


phosphate bolt






With the opaque ink the bolt finish does not matter the look is the same.

The transparent looks better on the chromate after 3 or 4 coats but on the zinc its a bit pink and on the phosphate it doesn't stand out as much.

I have read on a post that phosphate bolts & nuts would be dyed with opaque ink and zinc plated would use transparent ink is this true?

I have found that the transparent dye to work best on the phosphate as well as the zinc silver and gold. The opaque paint doesn't give the right look for the bolts IMO.