Topic: S-Code Value

[Stangly]

I have finally found a nice looking big block I'm interested in buying, but not real sure of the value.  I'm traveling to Minesota this weekend to look at what appears to be a pretty nice 69 Mach I S-Code.  Its about a four hour drive from where I live here in Bismarck ND.  It so happens that I'm going to the exact town where the car is for my sons hockey tournement.  I checked Hagerty's value section but would love some input from more experineced buyers, sure I'm in the right spot here.  Here are the details I know so far from an online add and a couple emails from the seller.  The car is white and it is a true S code I asked for the 5th digit in the vin.  It has 64,000 original miles and original paint and is suppose run and look good.  The car looks good in the photos but you know how that goes.  He is asking $32,000 any input would be greatly appreciated for this would be a major purchase for me.

[krelboyne]

From the pictures, shouldn't the AC hoses run behind the air cleaner?

Also, from the engine picture, the air cleaner and snorkel don't look correct. Maybe it's the angle? Should have a valve on the side. Air cleaner base are the same as 1969 Q code. Snorkel should be a 428CJ with a reducer on the end where the S tube would go.
Heat shields are 2 pieces, and very tough to find.

[69cobrajetrugae2]

I have a $350 Extell paint gauge accurate to 1/10 of a mil.  A mil is equal to 1/1000 of an inch.  The first thing I do is to gauge the paint every square inch.  Original paint is 3 to 7 mils, any repaint is 12 to 18 mils with primer. The gauge goes on overload if the sheet steel is more that 45 mills away, which indicates filler or very thick paint, either one is not good. 

As the previous poster noted there seems to be some missing parts.  Is that a replacement washer bottle or a coolant overflow container? The brake booster looks very corroded. The rule of thumb with rusty cars is that you only see about 10% of the rust, so if you find some, there is plenty more that is hidden. 

Of course rust and rust repair is the biggy with these cars.  I would be very careful with this rust belt car. If it is original there should be no fresh undercoating and no hack repairs on the rails, floor, or torque boxes.

My gut impression is that if this car was honest and dry, it would have been sold already. Good luck.

[Stangly]

Guys,

Thanks for the great advice I have two 302 cars and am familiar with those but have no experience with a big block.  The first car I restored (Waiting for paint) was a North Dakota car and spent some time in Mn.  I vowed I would never restore a ruster again.  Like I said this alot of money for me, don't know what I'll do if it checks out kinda of hoping its not the real deal.

I have one question yet ,if someone out there can answer.  Is Hagerty a good valuation tool, are there other ones.out there I could check value.

Thanks,

[J_Speegle]

Personally I have never found any usable purpose for the value guides other than to talk buyers into buying cars or support claims when purchasing insurance.  In general IMHO there are never enough public sales to base general value (especially in the case of S code 69's) of any particular cars considering there are no to cars that are the same and very few that are similar in condition, mileage/usage and options.

I've always been terrible when trying to figure out what someone will pay for something would only offer that you compare what that same $32K would buy you on the same day - basically comparative worth. That is only after you figure out what your really thinking of buying, get a Marti report and for those dollars a educated, informed and experienced second opinion. Considering the part of the country going to need IMHO to check close for repair and cancer to get a warm comfortable feeling before buying

Would expect that the Marti report will show no front spoiler, rear wing or rear slats


As a side note - interesting to see it does not have a console can't recall the last time I've seen that. No ashtray (at least not visible) at the bottom of the dash - so maybe something is missing


I'm betting that that is not all original paint  - pictures of the engine compartment seem to show (possibly) the fender bolts being painted in a quickie,lower standard paint job - but might just be the angle - we hope

Engine compartment and engine look to have been rattle canned. Hood hinges are paint black

[Stangly]

Jeff,

Thanks for advice, thanks again to everybody I will proceed with caution and do some more homework.  A friend of mine noticed the black dash thinking it should white.  He also said that most of the automatics had dealer installed A/C and the hoses typically where run in front of the air cleaner. I plan to order a marti if the car checks out.  Thanks again everybody I will let you know what I find out.

[J_Speegle]

A friend of mine noticed the black dash thinking it should white

.

Only if its a Cougar 

He also said that most of the automatics had dealer installed A/C and the hoses typically where run in front of the air cleaner......

The car is representing factory installed AC our there would be a thin box at the bottom of the dash not the vents in the dash pad

All the dealer installed AC I've seen (do have a NOS kit with diagrams of the installation    the line pass behind the air cleaner


Maybe your "friend" is a Chevy owner      Just kidding

[69cobrajetrugae2]

Jeff and the rest of you are correct in that there are so few cars to choose from.  Finding a good one that is fairly priced is like finding a needle in the haystack. Any 45 year old car needs something, even if it has been restored. If you add up what needs to be done on a car that you are considering buying, as a retail repair value from a reputable repair shop, the costs are staggering.

A complete 1969 CJ mustang that needs restoring costs 18-25K. The same car that has been restored at some point where it is a number 2 condition car costs 52K to 75K. The harsh reality is that it is far cheaper to buy an all around nice car as opposed to restoring it, unless it is a hobby and you have unlimited funds. Reproduction parts are for the most part garbage.  OEM parts are insanely expensive, if you can find what you need.

Ford FE engines are much more trouble than your garden variety 302, 351. Part of the reason is that the engine has been rebuilt and Ford FE experts may not have done the work, so you never know what you get.  The other reason is that a guy that bought a big block 45 years ago had one thing in mind, to go fast and hard against the competition.  I can't imagine an original FE engine in existence that has been unmolested and is still running good, although there must be a few in some collection somewhere.  I have seen small blocks that are original and still run beautifully. I have a 289 now and sold a 6 cylinder that ran fantastic.

Collecting and maintaining muscle cars is expensive and time consuming, one must have the burning desire and a strong stomach to enjoy ownership. It can turn into a disappointing experience in a hurry if you are not realistic in your expectations.

[Stangly]

Well here is what I've found out about the car after visiting with the owner and going over the car.  The car is a San Jose car and came to Mn in 1995 from Az, the seller showed me the title paper work.  the car was sold two years later to another buyer in Mn who owned the car up until three years ago. The seller is a boat dealer and took the car in on trade for a boat from the last owner who kept the car garaged.  The paint is not completely original there is filler on the left rear quarter panel, you can see where the paint was blended to just behind the front door.  It does not appear to have been any patch panels added from inside the trunk.  The fender bolts are all painted white so I think they may have been painted also.  The engine compartment and undercarriage of the engine area has been cleaned up with black rattle can pretty much everything but the hoses.  This looks pretty old because there is a good accumulation of grease and oil over the paint.  The frame rails, and the torque boxes are perfect some light surface rust no cancer and no damage.  The floor plans and trunk are look great with no holes or pitting evidence of factory paint runs on torque boxes are there.  From the engine bay back it looks untouched.  The car ran and sounded good going back in a little while to test drive.  The bad news is the engine tag was in place and is from a 70 two barrel car (390 70 12 top #'s   and 0F 311 A6 bot #'s).  The seller thinks the engine is original but is not much of a car guy and wasn't positive.  So either the engine tag was missing and someone replaced it with the incorrect tag or the engine has been replaced at some time.  If the latter is true then that would have been the time when the black rattle can was used to spruce things up.  Looking for advice on how to verify if this is a true S-code engine.  Like I said in my earier post not real familiar with the big block engine.  Any tips or help would be great.  I will be leaving town tomorrow and will post the photos I took which will hopefully shed some more light on the picture.

Thanks,
David,

[69cobrajetrugae2]

I have seen 69 S codes that we're nice cars go for 35 to 50K. http://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSearch

The car is missing so many parts that I would not buy it for any price. The car has been raped.  The seller is a pro and he is looking for a sucker.  If the car has no other surprises,  it is worth 15K tops as a driver, not a restoration candidate.

Don't give up.  Scrape together 45K and look for Cobra Jet Mustang, that's what I did. I had given up looking for one and my friend kept pushing me.  Sure enough one popped up and she was a beauty for a fair price.  I was actively looking  ready to buy for almost 2 years.



   

[J_Speegle]

After buying my fair share of Mustangs & Shelby's over the last 40 or so years for me or others I would offer that patience's and time are normally your best friend. Time will allow you to look at and see allot more cars and in turn be able to compare while gaining experience with what to look for, what they sell for and what is a fair deal.

Yes there are those rare occasions where the first car you see might be the best deal and car you may ever find - but IMHO this is a rare case and you have to choose how you will gain your experience. Will it be by getting a education or by learning the hard way

Don't be "that guy"  that others will use as an example of what not to buy or not to do

Asking here before you jumped was a good start

[Stangly]

My family and I took the car for a drive this afternoon.  My sons 2001 mustang with a V6 had twice the get up and go that this car had.  It started and ran great but literally had no power.  I'm convinced that the engine in the car is not the correct engine.  The guy selling stated he took this on trade for $28,000 towards a boat.  I think he is the one that will end up getting stuck holding the bag.  I told him I believe that the original engine had been swapped at some time.  He will probably end up passing it on to somebody that doesn't do their homework.  If I want one of these big blocks I will need to spend much more time educating myself on the FE engines so I know that what I'm paying for is the real deal.  Thanks again to everybody for all the advice and the education I really appreciate the help I will post the photos when I get back home.

[69cobrajetrugae2]

http://cosprings.craigslist.org/cto/4542752257.html

Interesting.  He wants 43K, there is a typo in the ad.  If he could send a 100 HD pics of everything, something like this might be worth a plane ticket. 

[J_Speegle]

http://cosprings.craigslist.org/cto/4542752257.html

Interesting.  He wants 43K, there is a typo in the ad.  If he could send a 100 HD pics of everything, something like this might be worth a plane ticket.

Or hiring someone with some experience to go look at it

Its a bit more than the OP was looking at I think but common thought has always been buy a car better than you can afford - restorers and owners never get back everything they put in a GOOD car

[Stangly]

Sweet looking car and it's blue my favorite color.