ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1968 Mustang => Topic started by: 68 S Code on September 06, 2011, 10:09:51 PM
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Just trying to get a consensus o the proper way to refinish a 68 argent style steel wheel. After lightly sanding the steel wheel I found that the wheel was painted entirely semigloss black and then a light coat of argent was sprayed across the entire face and oversprayed 1/2 way across the rim depth. It also appears that they must have had some sort of mask for the 12 cutouts and where the grease cap went. That area looks to have been touched up with a brush as it has s ragged finish on the back side. Also found a silver paint daub/slash on reverse side. Does this sound correct?
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I'd like to see this answered, if possible with photos of a properly restored or perfect original wheel.
I have a set of wheels that I'm restoring and I want to get it right...
Thanks!
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Pic one shows small silver paint daub and the sloppy touch-up of the center as done by the wheel plant. Two of the four had a daub but as expected they wee diffeent. next pic shows the process of painting back side and sides of wheels. Next is the restored wheel. It was my experiance to do it differently. First I did them all black. Followed by argent. Then i taped out the front and resprayed black on the back. This way you get the correct black on the inside of the holes. Ford must have had some sort of piece they put in the slots to prevent the argent from going in there. I found that taping them from the front was the only way to do it correctly. Last pic shows that you have to add argent with a brush to touch up the center hole. Found that it was kind of a sloppy job by the guys at the wheel factory see first pic of this set. Then add the silver daub.
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These two pics are what I found during investigative phase. The argent was over black. The reason why I added a sanding and painting step is because i found that if you use 2" 3M blue painters tape and stick it down on an edge of a slot you then pull on the tape to stretch it and it really bites down on the remaining edges. The taping is actually pretty easy if you use this meathod. Just run your finger around the edge to finish it off. Took me less than half an hour to tape out 5 wheels. The center holes took the majority of the time. Having done all 5 wheels this way I didnt get any bleeding of the black onto the face. Thats a lot of openings to not have any problems.
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Awesome, thanks for the images and info.
The black looks glossier than I expected. I thought it was more of a Krylon 1613 (semi-flat) type black. What paint did you use?
Also curious about the argent paint, I have some of the rattle can motorcraft argent, am surprised at how 'thick' it seems to be.
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I dont use any rattle cans. The black is Dupont Pitch Black Acrylic Enamel with 40% flattener, then 8 parts paint, to 2 parts mid temp reducer and 1 part hardner/gloss catalyst. The flattener is not figured into the ratio for other two components. I can dull it down but prefered the look of this as it will dull naturally with time. This wheel was probably 3 hours old after painting. Wanted to make sure that I didn't get any bleeding of black on the argent due to taping. Came out perfect so I added the daub and snapped a pic.
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Here is a set of pictures of an original to help the discussion\
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/68%20Mustang/WideOvalDetailfrt.jpg)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/68%20Mustang/WideOvalDetailRear.jpg)
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Great thread great job !
I too had to do ten wheels for my car - one of the things that got me (I wrote this before somewhere 428CJ.org?) was.........
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/svo2scj/AZ%20R%20code%20restoration/100_6240.jpg)
One of these is a NOS (service) 1968 wheel and it had what I would call a "brownish" tint to the black. Almost "enameled" very similar to the trim ring on a shaker IMO ! Now I don't know it that is a service thing or if there was fade - but I used it as is. Very interesting to me.
Mark
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Biggest difference I see with copying the service replacement is the extra black on the face/rim edge. Haven't run across this on a factory original. Did factory originals come both ways?
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Biggest difference I see with copying the service replacement is the extra black on the face/rim edge. Haven't run across this on a factory original. Did factory originals come both ways?
I have a ton of wheels and they all seem to have argent around the rim. This service replacement resembles the chrome ones more, where only the center is chromed.
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I agree with that. Chrome centers had black rims. I assume on a chrome center the rivits would be natural where on the argent rim they would be painted black. Chromed would have been painted and then assembled would be my guess?
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Note" This post and the following 2012 responses were merged from another thread in a effort to keep related information together
How should the finish be on a 68 styled steel argent wheel be ?
Should it be a flat finish silver argent with flat black inside and on the reverse side , or should they be
semi gloss silver finish with semi gloss black inside and reverse ?
Thanks
Arild
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Reported to be an original
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/68%20Mustang/Styledsteelfront.jpg)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/68%20Mustang/Styledsteelrear.jpg)
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I used VHT Wheel Paint in Argent Silver and I think it turned out very close to original. It is a little flatter than SG and a little duller than "aluminum" silver.
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I also found the VHT paint to be a close match to the original.
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Ford dealers used to service the paint in spray cans. I haven't bought any recently, but argent was used a lot on all different makes and models.
Danny
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thanks for the replys, I'll get some VHT wheel paint in silver argent
Arild
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How were the 68 GT rims painted originally? Was it Argent front that transitioned to a satin black backside like the one pictured? Did the argent overspray through the holes as pictured?
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A look at your Marti report to see what should be on your car would be a good start.
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In your search of the site did you happen to find the thread below? Think it might answer your questions. We might be able to add additional pictures. Used the words "68 Argent wheel"
https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=3475.0 (https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=3475.0)
Will merge this thread and that one in a day or so
Appears from the sample that the silver was painted argent first then the black after. Since they would not have wanted any black on the front side they must have had some process to protect or mask the front from overspray
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Thanks, I used the wrong search term. That was the info I needed.
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I'm assuming this applies to the styled wheels on my Sprint B too. Argent on the outside and semi gloss black on the inside, correct? Or should the inside be a satin black?
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I'm assuming this applies to the styled wheels on my Sprint B too. Argent on the outside and semi gloss black on the inside, correct? Or should the inside be a satin black?
Yes. An argent painted wheel in 68 is the same as another based on what I've seen and what we have collected. They didn't have "satin" in the day so you/they only had gloss and semi-gloss to choose from. Not all the designer terms and different products of today so yes - semi-gloss or what ever you can find that reproduces that look.
You might want to create a sample board for long term use as mentioned in a couple of other threads. Take a piece of strap metal, gusset or similar piece of metal, buy a hand full potential spray cans and paint stripes (maybe an inch or two wide) along the length of each color then use it as a guide to which black you want to use on any particular part in the future or to compare to original paint samples to chose the closest match. Black painted parts, for example, in the engine compartment, would not have originally all been the same since they were painted at different locations, with different paint supplier, mixes and conditions so this can help with that also.
Here is a similar test or sample board I used for floor/undercarriage colors
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-060518191603.jpeg)
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This is an old old thread but wanted to revive this as I need to paint a set of argent wheels for a 68. Wanted to make sure there is still an agreement here that the black paint is on the inside of the slots. I see the original posts from "68 S Code" but he has not been active for years. Seems the inside of the slots would be argent and would be alot easier to spray that way. Just seeing if anyone has new information since 2012.
Also if anyone has an exact spray gun formula for the argent on the wheels as I will not be using a rattle can.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52944216994_3cb5a740a3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oEuXau)wheel 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2oEuXau) by Marcus Anghel (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154714213@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52944071371_23a98479a2_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oEucSK)wheel 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2oEucSK) by Marcus Anghel (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154714213@N02/), on Flickr
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This is an old old thread but wanted to revive this as I need to paint a set of argent wheels for a 68. Wanted to make sure there is still an agreement here that the black paint is on the inside of the slots. I see the original posts from "68 S Code" but he has not been active for years. Seems the inside of the slots would be argent and would be alot easier to spray that way. Just seeing if anyone has new information since 2012.
Feel comfortable that original painted wheels shown years ago still represent original finishes. Coating did not appear to be heavy. Have not seen black on the inner lip of the "holes" as the argent IMHO was likely applied after the black base paint as done in other wheels unlike what you posted above. Think it makes sense since in that way they would not need to mask of the back side or wheel in any way. Just paint the black painted rim argent without spending time and effort on masking and if done in reverse (black last) you run the risk of black over the argent - not what they would have wanted.
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Agreed...thats what I thinlk as well Jeff. Overspray on the back of the wheel is not as critical or an issue like it is on the front of the wheel. I will see if I can find some original wheels with this paint pattern and update post with photos. At Carlisle this week...never know what you can find here.
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Verified today with an original paint wheel the paint pattern of the argent being sprayed after the black.....
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52946833945_97c1202e3a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oEJn6k)20230602_102917 (https://flic.kr/p/2oEJn6k) by Marcus Anghel (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154714213@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52946910613_cb45065310_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oEJKTc)20230602_102851 (https://flic.kr/p/2oEJKTc) by Marcus Anghel (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154714213@N02/), on Flickr
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Verified today with an original paint wheel the paint pattern of the argent being sprayed after the black.....
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52946833945_97c1202e3a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oEJn6k)20230602_102917 (https://flic.kr/p/2oEJn6k) by Marcus Anghel (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154714213@N02/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52946910613_cb45065310_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oEJKTc)20230602_102851 (https://flic.kr/p/2oEJKTc) by Marcus Anghel (https://www.flickr.com/photos/154714213@N02/), on Flickr
Great reference photos Marcus. My 68 GT wheels are chrome. Should I assume that they were chromed after the fact and that GT wheels weren't chrome
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Ford made chrome versions of this wheel.
Have saw them on 1969 Mercury Cougar Eliminator, and on 1968 and / or 1969 Mercury Cyclone.
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Ford made chrome versions of this wheel.
Have saw them on 1969 Mercury Cougar Eliminator, and on 1968 and / or 1969 Mercury Cyclone.
Thanks Scott. So would the chrome wheel option be on the Marty (Marti) report, or where they available on Mustangs in '68?
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Chrome wheels for 68 would have had a reflective C stripe also, reflective group ? Argent wheels received a non reflective C stripe.
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Chrome wheels for 68 would have had a reflective C stripe also, reflective group ? Argent wheels received a non reflective C stripe.
My stripe was gold, not sure if it was reflective
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I have a GT with the reflective group and blackout package. Stripe was reflective black and the rims were a dusty black and lightup at night.
Pics are taken from FB group. First time I have actually seen, so I thoughthttps://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=7364408820256180&set=pcb.7393338084010337 (https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=7364408820256180&set=pcb.7393338084010337) it worthy of a reply.
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I have a GT with the reflective group and blackout package. Stripe was reflective black and the rims were a dusty black and lightup at night.
Pics are taken from FB group. First time I have actually seen, so I thoughthttps://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=7364408820256180&set=pcb.7393338084010337 (https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=7364408820256180&set=pcb.7393338084010337) it worthy of a reply.
Can't see pictures here if you post them that way and for those that don't belong to FB they can be viewed. Just thought I would mention that :)
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Thought I would share a few pictures of the backside of my spare tire wheel. You can definitely see the overspray of the argent silver on the backside that made it's way through the cutouts. In particular in picture 00 it sure does look like the painter was on an angle when doing the topside silver as there is more silver overspray on the top of the picture than on the bottom.
By the way I went to our Parks Auto Finishes shop and they were able to mix me up some Argent Silver paint for the wheels. They also did some of my Sunlit Gold body paint too that is spot on.
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Here's an oddity I'm guessing. I met the 2nd owner of my car who shared a number of pieces of info that were very helpful. He also had a tire and wheel that he got from the original owner.
From looking at the wheel it looks like it could have been originally installed on my car from the trim ring scratches on the front side and am 8MD date or April 68 which is the month my car was built, though early April. It also had AA embossed on the wheel. The spare tire wheel that was in my car has AC on it. Not sure what that means.
On the backside I was expecting to see black as we've discussed with styled wheels. In fact it's all silver front and back. Any thoughts?
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On the backside I was expecting to see black as we've discussed with styled wheels. In fact it's all silver front and back. Any thoughts?
Difficult to see if there is any difference in the wheel weight (not original) and mounting arm to the silver color applied to the back side of the rim.
I've painted them like this decades ago but haven't found them like that. We'll see if anyone else can come up with some like this