ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Body, Paint & Sealers => Topic started by: mtinkham on January 20, 2016, 01:39:16 PM
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I am wondering if Ford spayed the exterior paint with the trunk lid up or down? If it was down, any thoughts on how they secured the lid closed while painting the exterior? I am assuming Ford painted the trunk interior, trunk opening, and the underside of the trunk lid first, then moved on to the exterior surfaces.
I am making preparations to paint a July 67 Metuchen coupe. I have seen where many people will paint the interior of the trunk, then mask it all off for application of the exterior paint. I am weighing the advantages of jambing vs. replicating the factory method. Got me to thinking whether or not Ford had a temporary method of keeping the lid "mostly" closed without interfering with the wet paint inside the trunk, in the trunk opening, and on the underside of the trunk lid. Have you seen any witness shadows from a wire or cord?
Your thoughts and suggestions will help me decide. Thanks, Mark
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I am wondering if Ford spayed the exterior paint with the trunk lid up or down? If it was down, any thoughts on how they secured the lid closed while painting the exterior? I am assuming Ford painted the trunk interior, trunk opening, and the underside of the trunk lid first, then moved on to the exterior surfaces.
That is my understanding pretty much closed like the doors. Factory pictures from 65-66 at Dearborn support that. Have not found a painter to ask that of
Have not found any shadows from retainers on the trunk lid or opening as well as none on the door or door jamb that I can recall
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Being that the torsion bars are installed and the trunk lock is not, plus when you see pictures of cars on the assembly line with the trunk lid up, and with the trunk underside and trunk interior painted body color - all without fingerprints - painted down then allowed to go up for the inside stuff.
Jim
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Just looked at some additional paint line pictures
Almost looks like car is painted (exterior) then door jambs are shot.
Then exterior is given another coat (trunk down)
Interior of the trunk appears already painted when the final (?) coat is applied.
Appears to be 67 or 68 Dearborn line
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its too bad there are not more pictures or documentation on the assembly line practices/build sequence...
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its too bad there are not more pictures or documentation on the assembly line practices/build sequence...
Would guess that at the time there were many "secrets" around the plant that companies didn't want to share to freely. Know that there were "black rooms" at the factory glass plants. Took all kinds of paperwork and clearances to visit those areas. Did it once or twice for one locally (one of Libby Owens Ford plants) we were responsible for the fire protection in the late 70's-early 80's.
So we have to settle for what we have and try and fill in with recall from what workers are left that remember any details.
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So, should the inside of the trunk, and underside of trunk lid, be all body color?
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So, should the inside of the trunk, and underside of trunk lid, be all body color?
Lots and lots of mention of this in prior threads ;)
FAQs of most classic sections
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=8441.msg49008#msg49008 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=8441.msg49008#msg49008)
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=1259.msg6364#msg6364 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=1259.msg6364#msg6364)
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=8957.msg52267#msg52267 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=8957.msg52267#msg52267)
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=8957.msg52267#msg52267 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=8957.msg52267#msg52267)
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=7738.msg44251#msg44251 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=7738.msg44251#msg44251)
Bottom line - Yes. Trunk lids were attached so the mounting hardware and hinges were painted exterior color as well as over approx 90% or more of the interior fo the trunk over sound deadener and sealer. For more detail we would need to know what year and plant you were asking about
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And that's what I get for not double-checking those areas. Thought I had looked for that question before without seeing an answer.
My bad. :'(
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Added some links to just some of the earlier threads. As you can see they are peppered though the site in different years/sections in response to specific year request for information
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Thanks, the links helped, especially the pictures.
I may not get the sound deadener back on, but I'll at least get the color done right.
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Thanks, the links helped, especially the pictures.
I may not get the sound deadener back on, but I'll at least get the color done right.
Going to be interesting driving the car with nothing applied to those surfaces.
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Thank you for all the replies. The attached picture came from this site, I believe. The last two white cars have the trunk open. The dark car in front being painted the lid is down....I don't see anyone holding it. So something must be holding it down.
I assume the direction the line is moving is forward? So maybe the white cars are actually not white, but grey primer??? Hard to believe, that there wouldn't be any overspray on them from the dark car!!
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I assume the direction the line is moving is forward? So maybe the white cars are actually not white, but grey primer??? Hard to believe, that there wouldn't be any overspray on them from the dark car!!
Look how white the painters' coveralls are, too! Not nearly as much paint on them as I would imagine.
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I assume the direction the line is moving is forward? So maybe the white cars are actually not white, but grey primer??? Hard to believe, that there wouldn't be any overspray on them from the dark car!!
Impossible to tell if its the light gray primer or a light color (white) exterior color. Unfortunately Ford wasn't big on spending the extra dollars at using color film for these shots like other makers did
Depends allot of how clean the filters and how much air the down draft system is moving but it is impressive how well it worked
Reflecting back on one of my earlier posts in the thread - didn't consider that if the trunk was painted first then there would be no shadow from any apparatus or tool used to hold it somewhat close either door or trunk lid
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Look at 24:15 of this video. The deck lid is the down position and just as the scene is cut you can see the guy reaching for the hold down wire to, presumably, release it and paint the underside. Mystery solved?
It is at the Rouge plant a few years before Mustangs were being produced. Probably the same guys and equipment that built a lot of our Mustangs!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMlPonSrqVo
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Look at 24:15 of this video. The deck lid is the down position and just as the scene is cut you can see the guy reaching for the hold down wire to, presumably, release it and paint the underside. Mystery solved?
IMHO it's more likely - given the film and the other pictures we have- that the worker may be releasing the trunk to open so that the paint in the trunk gets baked evenly after the paint station. Notice in the space between the quarter panel and the trunk lid that the finish on the back side of the trunk lid is reflecting the light from the sides and above unlike the unpainted/primered quarter panel and top of trunk lid - at least until the top surface of the trunk lid is painted then it's very similar in the amount of reflection produced between the different surfaces.
It is interesting to note that if what we are seeing is common practice the trunk is being opened before the rest of the cars exterior is being finished. This would eliminate the possibility of a shadow being produced by the hold down
Guess this could suggest on these cars in early 60's the bottom of trunk lid was painted, top of trunk lid was then painted then the interior or trunk and exterior was painted. Sure seems to be an extra step or two doing it that way - so that might not be the answer
If the trunk was painted last you have the overspray onto the exterior issue to deal with as mentioned. Trunk painting when quickly with not enough paint in some areas and too much (big hanging curtains/runs) elsewhere. Also painting the interior of the trunk would push overspray and paint through openings like taillights and side marker lights. We do have examples on later cars (some 69-73) where then the trunk was painted a color different than the exterior the marker light and taillight openings were masked off to eliminate that problem, Think that trunk first a more likely scenario viewing the film and other information.
IMHO we always must guard about taking everything at face value the film does show a different line and year with possible other practices ( example the describe coating before the primer) that may not apply to our cars
A capture from the film just before it cuts away
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-210116194123.jpeg)
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"Baked" painting processes at the assembly are more than likely completely different than what we can reproduce in the field. Using the photograph of the Falcon (cut from the film "The Rouge"), we can see the jam areas of the trunk do not yet have body color on them, yet we also know that there would be no way of getting complete coverage onto the jam area if the trunk were to be tied down as pictured. This being said to say that, going by this image, it would almost indicate the top of the deck lid up through the package tray, would be shot first, trunk opened and then inside the trunk and quarters, taillight panel next, (possibly tie the trunk down again?) and move forward down the sides & top of the car next.
Keep in mind that this whole process took a worker (more likely two workers) only about two minutes to shoot the whole car, then it actually went into the oven within a few more minutes (I'd say like 5 minutes total, start spray to entering the oven), this would include a few minutes for possibly another set of eyes to view the quality (touch up if needed) before getting baked where the oven baking process would flow out any "fogging" that might have occured with any overspray and/or touchups. (I agree with Jeff, likely they popped the trunk open again as part of the inspection process before getting baked)
IMHO, we simply cannot shoot a car with a garden hose style spray gun and get it to an oven as fast as these workers did PERIOD. Trying to "exact the process" to me seems like a mute point. Understanding how it was done in the day is one thing but in reality, trying to duplicate the results is the best we can hope for.
Materials used to paint a car these days and the environments individually available to any of us out here in the "real world" simply put, prevent us from doing it the "same way".
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Going to be interesting driving the car with nothing applied to those surfaces.
The trunk was blasted down to bare metal and prepped and painted (black) a couple years ago when it was being sorta redone. Really haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary when I've been driving it. I'll have to do some checking on what to use and see if adding it changes anything. I should be able to apply the deadener in my garage I would guess.
I'll have to do a before and after drive for comparison.
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Mystery solved for securing the trunk lid....thank you for the link to that video.
"before getting baked where the oven baking process would flow out any "fogging" that might have occured with any overspray and/or touchups. (I agree with Jeff, likely they popped the trunk open again as part of the inspection process before getting baked)"
So the primary reason that painters jamb vehicles (like the trunk area) is to minimize fogging from overspray?
I would guess a secondary reason for jambing would be to paint the less critical areas first (trunk area, underside of trunk lid, underside of hood, trailing edges of front fenders, mounting flanges of front fenders, door openings, and leading edges of doors...for example)...once these areas are painted, the painter simply focusses on the more visible exterior surfaces.
Thanks for all of your input.
Mark
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I would guess a secondary reason for jambing would be to paint the less critical areas first (trunk area, underside of trunk lid, underside of hood, trailing edges of front fenders, mounting flanges of front fenders, door openings, and leading edges of doors...for example)...once these areas are painted, the painter simply focusses on the more visible exterior surfaces.
Correct the inspectors were focused on the exterior (door jambs counted but just not as much ;) finish since that is what the customer would see. Runs in the engine compartment and trunk - or lack of paint in the trunk do not appear to have been as important. Have a fair number of travelers (inspection) sheets where resprays were done due to dust and other imperfections in the exterior finish.
Remembering the pictures I have, though this is not common, I recall a few half painted trunk areas or big nasty runs across the bottom of the trunk lid.
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I like how one guy is wearing his mask on his face, one on his forehead and the other not at all. Notice the writing on the front of the passenger side core support?
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Did you notice the guy with no mask has tape around his wrists and ankles? More concerned with the exterior than the interior...my how things don't change!
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Follow-up question...
With the deck lid installed (67 coupe), what methods are employed to get paint into the front well (the surface that the weather-strip seals against) of the trunk surround? With the gravity feed gun that I have, it is very difficult to get coverage in that area. Any advice would be appreciated.
On a related topic, I fabricated a deck lid closing tool...if anyone is interested I can take pictures.