ConcoursMustang Forums
Showing & Judging => Events => Topic started by: DTruitt on December 28, 2010, 11:56:26 PM
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Registration for the Monuments and Mustangs MCA 2011 Grand National is open. Visit the show website for registration details. I hope to see some "old friends" and meet new ones at the show.
http://www.monumentsandmustangs.org/
Danny
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Thanks for posting, just registered the K convertible.
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Looking forward to seeing you there, Charles. I wish you and your family a Happy New Year.
Danny
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Thinking of driving to the show. Are all the cars on the field by Saturday morning? I'll have to leave by noon or so to make it home, it wont be worth the trip if the cars dont show up till late in the morning.
Does anyone know what vendors will be at the show? If I remember correctly from the last time I attended a MCA show there are not many people selling parts, the show is the main attraction.
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I was at the Jax National got there a bit late in the am on Saturday, folks were still coming in EVEN AFTER THE 10AM CUTOFF!!!!!!
There were "some" vendors there but not as many as I'd seen at previous Nationals, I'm headed to Waldorf, we'll see what happens there.....
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Im presently in transit from the other side of the world. guess the longest distance awards is covered, sorry not bringing a mustang!!!!!
Look forward to seeing all the regulars and im sure a hooters party is planned by Jake.
regards.
PHILL BERESFORD.
MELBOURNE.
AUSTRALIA.
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8/28/82011 1 50pm eastern time: Does anyone from the local area to Waldorf know if everything is OK there after the storm? -hope everyone AND THEIR CARS faired well!!
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Around the neighborhood some folks lost a fee trees (mostly Bradford Pears) overall we did ok. I am unfamiliar with any major damage from the storm. I stopped by the stadium today and did not see anything obvious there. I'm glad the sun is shining today tho.
Danny
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Thanks for the report Danny - Hope the local population fared well also
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Thanks for the report Danny - Hope the local population fared well also
+1 Thanks Danny!!!
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I think the show had some very substandard judging didn't porters car get a silver? What bout the over restored car that got the prestige award owner of that car went home at 9am sunday isn't that disqualification? According to mca since when can you buff a bottom of a car is that the new standard?
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I attended the show, and wanted to know if the results were posted anywhere?
I am not an MCA ,member, so I guess I mean anywhere other than the MCA forum.
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I think the show had some very substandard judging didn't porters car get a silver? What bout the over restored car that got the prestige award owner of that car went home at 9am sunday isn't that disqualification? According to mca since when can you buff a bottom of a car is that the new standard?
Hi. That is my car.
Before you confuse everyone, the bottom of the car is not buffed. It was just painted the gloss that it and many cars around that production time that we observed were painted.
Yes, we did have to leave early. This was cleared with both the head judge and some of the primary folks running the event.
Edit: Oh, just realized who is posting. It was nice talking with you this weekend.
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I attended the show, and wanted to know if the results were posted anywhere?
I am not an MCA ,member, so I guess I mean anywhere other than the MCA forum.
the results will be in an upcoming mustang times which you will not receive since you are not a current member. on the mca board it was said that the show folks would do their best to post the results to the show website. monumentsandmustangs.org.
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I think the show had some very substandard judging
Thats quite an accusation.
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I was quite surprised to learn when the judges came by for Modified Trailered that it was only Abbreviated judging. I understand there were a tremendous amount of cars to judge in an afternoon (and possibly Sun morning), but it would have been helpful to know in advance since part of the experience was to have the car looked at in a complete manner. I'll see what the sheet notes are when I get it, but Abbreviated Judging in my experience is Cleanliness, Quality of Workmanship and Overall Condition only.
Overall though, it was impressive to see so many cars at an event like that.
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MY '65 K GT Convertible EARNED, I repete EARNED a GOLD award at the River City National in Jacksonville in May only loosing 14 points, I personally corrected about 10 of these, and did nothing else to my car since May execpt keep in clean and detailed, and went home from Waldorf with a SILVER! Can't wait to get my judging sheet to see whats up with that!
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MY '65 K GT Convertible EARNED, I repete EARNED a GOLD award at the River City National in Jacksonville
Are you inferring that others didn't earn the awards that were given to them? I'm not sure I follow what you're trying to say with all the caps and the innuendo.
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i confess. i judged the car at waldorf. i do not know who the judges were at jacksonville. i put my phone # on the judging sheet and would be glad to discuss it with you. i can only speak for my judging team.
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i was also part of the judging team that was responsible for your car. im also happy to discuss the issues that i observed at the grand national as well, i think we discussed the most obvious ones with you once we finished your sheets.
easier for you to email me at: outlaw@hn.ozemail.com.au
Based in Australia so i dont think you want the cost of calling me here.
regards.
PHILL BERESFORD.
MELBOURNE.
AUSTRALIA
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Sorry to highjack!
Phill, Did you bring the radio and Alt harness?
Bryan
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Are you inferring that others didn't earn the awards that were given to them? I'm not sure I follow what you're trying to say with all the caps and the innuendo.
Not at all. I weas just stating thatmy car "earned" a gold award at Jacksonville, I don't prefer to say that I (personally) "won" a gold, rather that my car EARNED it, by the work that was done with the restoration, and by my upkeep and improvements since then.
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i was also part of the judging team that was responsible for your car. im also happy to discuss the issues that i observed at the grand national as well, i think we discussed the most obvious ones with you once we finished your sheets.
easier for you to email me at: outlaw@hn.ozemail.com.au
Based in Australia so i dont think you want the cost of calling me here.
regards.
PHILL BERESFORD.
MELBOURNE.
AUSTRALIA
Guys, I really don't want to get into a pissing contest here, but the only things you guys told me about verbally at the show during the judging was the lack of a small amount of strip caulk that was not present on a hole for a rear bumper guard bolt (because my car is a GT and can't have bumper guards due to the exhaust holes) and then about some minor oil leaks.
There was absolutely nothing else spoken about, I even asked you if you'd like to see my newly added seat belt labels that were added since I lost 1 point for at Jacksonville for not having, and Phill, your reply was "you don't need them-you are in Concours" I also asked if you guys wanted to see inside the glove box, because I was so proud of my newly replaced door, and the Red Band tire sticker in the proper place.....I know at Jacksonville that one of the judges helpped himself to open the glove box door and found a very nasty finish on the inside of the door itself and the tire sticker in the wrong place.....
Not that I could have or would have been able to do anything about what you guys were deducting points for at the show......
I truely was under the impression that my car (me NOT being stuck up or anything) would also EARN a Gold award at the Grand National show being is how, like I stated above personally "corrected" at least 8-10 of these lost points, and did nothing else since Jacksonville but keep my car clean and detailed.
I am still really green with the MCA judging and certainly don't know all there is to know, I don't understand why a car's VIN and owners name are not on the judging sheets.....seems to me that this would be a much better way to document a car's status down the road, or in case someone wanted to sell their car, which BTW I am most certainly NOT planning in the future at all.
BTW: Why must these judging sheets go to MCA headquarters before an owner can get them? seems silly as basicly everyone that needs to look over what the judges did are present at the show, and even if they were not-what can they do to recheck judging results after the fact w/o the car present?
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i confess. i judged the car at waldorf. i do not know who the judges were at jacksonville. i put my phone # on the judging sheet and would be glad to discuss it with you. i can only speak for my judging team.
Fred, No confession needed, it was GREAT finally meeting you, and again, I appreciate your time in judging my car however the outcome.
You, Phill, and your helper whos name I have forgotten know way more than I do right now as to what you deducted points for, so until I get my sheets back I can't speak intellegently about anything that is on them...
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Not at all. I weas just stating thatmy car "earned" a gold award at Jacksonville, I don't prefer to say that I (personally) "won" a gold, rather that my car EARNED it, by the work that was done with the restoration, and by my upkeep and improvements since then.
Reading your comments I get the impression that you are unaware or maybe have forgotten that just because the judges at another show found 12 items and you fixed 10 doesn't mean that a another set of eyes in Waldorf couldn't find 10 or 15 more items that need attention. This is relatively common. It is also common that things get missed or that when a number of things get fixed other differences stand out more prominently. The judging staff strives for consistency (our mantra) and in a perfect world everything that was wrong would be caught the first time around. Perfection is a little unreasonable to expect so we work towards doing the best we can. It sounds like to me that the concours judges that judged your car are ready ,willing and able to answer your questions if that is what you want. As always you should request the judging sheets since it would be unreasonable to expect the judging team to remember many deductions for one car made out of all the cars they had to judge that day. One of the things discussed at the judges meeting after the show and Monday were ways to streamline the process to get the requested judging sheets out to the judged car owners. THIS IS WHAT WE WANT ALSO. Just so you know the ability to get the sheets to the owners is out of the hands of the judging staff once turned in to the tally room. Just my observations. Bob
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Guys, I really don't want to get into a pissing contest here, but the only things you guys told me about verbally at the show during the judging was the lack of a small amount of strip caulk that was not present on a hole for a rear bumper guard bolt (because my car is a GT and can't have bumper guards due to the exhaust holes) and then about some minor oil leaks.
There was absolutely nothing else spoken about, I even asked you if you'd like to see my newly added seat belt labels that were added since I lost 1 point for at Jacksonville for not having, and Phill, your reply was "you don't need them-you are in Concours" I also asked if you guys wanted to see inside the glove box, because I was so proud of my newly replaced door, and the Red Band tire sticker in the proper place.....I know at Jacksonville that one of the judges helpped himself to open the glove box door and found a very nasty finish on the inside of the door itself and the tire sticker in the wrong place.....
Not that I could have or would have been able to do anything about what you guys were deducting points for at the show......
I truely was under the impression that my car (me NOT being stuck up or anything) would also EARN a Gold award at the Grand National show being is how, like I stated above personally "corrected" at least 8-10 of these lost points, and did nothing else since Jacksonville but keep my car clean and detailed.
I am still really green with the MCA judging and certainly don't know all there is to know, I don't understand why a car's VIN and owners name are not on the judging sheets.....seems to me that this would be a much better way to document a car's status down the road, or in case someone wanted to sell their car, which BTW I am most certainly NOT planning in the future at all.
BTW: Why must these judging sheets go to MCA headquarters before an owner can get them? seems silly as basicly everyone that needs to look over what the judges did are present at the show, and even if they were not-what can they do to recheck judging results after the fact w/o the car present?
it has been standard proceedure for the sheets to go back to the home office to be distributed. that process is to prevent unwanted confrontations at the showsite as happened in years past. mca is working on a way to scan the sheets & be able to send an electronic copy to those who request them. as for the name/vin not being on there i will defer and let the mca tally folks address that question for you. he is on the forum here as 'ruppstang'. please give me a call when yours arrive. i know you were proud of your new glovebox door & setup but we did not look at the others in the class thus to maintain consistency we did not ask to see yours. as for the labels it is my proceedure to not move or touch anything. i judge what i can see as it is presented at that time. you were present when judged. some owners are not. those labels are hidden, again a consistency thing. we are quite often pressed for time and cannot discuss each point that was deducted.
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Boy! I've just lost all interest in having my car judged in MCA competition.
It's almost like the Miss USA Pageant (if the judging "dings" were available for viewing)
The car owner should NEVER be allowed to see the judges' specific comments.
I imagine one judge writing "She's a beautiful girl but I am deducting 1 point because of the visible vein on her right calf!"
Then when the Mom and Dad reads the judge's comment, they go look him up and give him a piece of their mind, or worse, saying "That's not a vein you idiot, that's a religious tatoo and you can't deduct for that!"
Do you guys realize how moronic this sounds? It's not like you're gonna win $100k! You're fighting over a $50.00 trophy that anyone could buy, a paper inkjet certificate, and bragging rights.
Count me out even though my car will be worthy.
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Guys, I am now going to tell you all just exactly what took place during my FIRST judged MCA show in Jacksonville, Florida this past May 2011 (The River City National)-since it has been reported to me that the situation has been delt with even though I chose not to report it officially to the MCA for fear of retalliation:
The one judge (who I don't know to this day what his credentials are) came by my car twice during the show-I didn't realize that HE was a judge and would judge my car later.
The second time he came over he said "VERY nice car!" & "I'd like to judge your car" so I invited him to do so, he said someone else would be along to do it.
So, the 3rd time he came over he had a helper in tow and announced that THEY were there to judge my car.
They went over my car pretty well considering the extreeme heat that we all were bearing.
He INSISTED at first that my 289 Hipo engine SHOULD have a decal on the oil filler cap, was ready to make a deduction until he found information to the contrary near the bottom of the page.
The helper literally sat down on the hot pavement with my passengers side door open, bear hugged my passengers seat, pushed the latch and slid the seat back and forth SEVERAL times while grabbing and pulling on my seat belts, I couldn't take it anymore after several minutes I asked him what he was doing, he then asked me if I had LABELS ON MY SEAT BELTS? -I replied "NO" (So, IF in CONCOURS I don't need the labels why was 1 point deducted for NOT having them???)
Then BOTH of them CLIMBED into my back seat crouching on their knees looking up and out the back window and feeling all around the vinyl window and zipper area, they spent close to 5 minutes in there-I heard later that they were looking for evedence of a snap and strap:MCA rules clearly state:IF snap is present then there also must be a strap:Otherwise my top/window/zipper and even the rawhide zipper pull are VERY correct.
(In the process of entering and exiting my car THEY left some small pebbles and sand, then wrote down "minor trash on carpet" mind you I had cleaned first my glasses, then vacuumed the entire floor, and even used a lint roller to make darn sure there was absolutely NO "trash" on my carpet BEFORE the show.
Then 1 of them took his sweat towel and rubbed a place on my outside lower windsheild moulding-then wrote up discoloration on judging sheet, then the other guy took HIS sweat towel and rubbed a place on the outside of my VINYL rear window.
I was strongly urged to make a report to the MCA about this and thought long and hard about it and deceided not to, like I said for fear of retalliation later-
All this talk I hear about the MCA wanting to get and keep members and how great the organization is in general then something like this happens to a newcomer on their first show, its a wonder I elected to correct the noted problems and spend well over $1k in expenses to go to Waldorf,being unemployed for close to a year now, but I did, and I truely enjoyed the show and got to visit an old friend that I hadn't seen since 1987 who lives 1 hour away in Fairfax, Va in the process.
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Boy! I've just lost all interest in having my car judged in MCA competition.
It's almost like the Miss USA Pageant (if the judging "dings" were available for viewing)
The car owner should NEVER be allowed to see the judges' specific comments.
I imagine one judge writing "She's a beautiful girl but I am deducting 1 point because of the visible vein on her right calf!"
Then when the Mom and Dad reads the judge's comment, they go look him up and give him a piece of their mind, or worse, saying "That's not a vein you idiot, that's a religious tatoo and you can't deduct for that!"
Do you guys realize how moronic this sounds? It's not like you're gonna win $100k! You're fighting over a $50.00 trophy that anyone could buy, a paper inkjet certificate, and bragging rights.
Count me out even though my car will be worthy.
Brian, FYI: The trophy is very nice, and very typical, but no where near $50.00 in value, there is NO fancy ink jet produced document, and heck I didn't even get the stick on label (in my case a "silver") this time-I thought it was in the box with the trophy but it wasn't.
Me being a newcomer, I think that a trophy should have the owners name, the cars VIN,Description, and the award status (such as Gold, Silver, Bronze, Wood) engraved or etched right on it-might cost a couple of bucks more and have to wait for it-I personally would be willing for both if really need be.
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Unfortunately, what happened with Rick is the exact thing that we had been working on improving over the past few years with MCA Judging. Unfortunately, the judge(s) who looked at his car in Jacksonville have not been coming to many shows and most likely have not listened in on some of the consistency training MCA had been doing, both at the National shows and at the yearly judge's meeting. We knew that we would not be able to ever achieve 100% consistency, but were working towards that goal, one judge at a time. I am appalled at the observed actions of the judges at Jacksonville, that is unacceptable no matter what the circumstances. Thankfully, you got to see judging how it should be done with Fred's team in Waldorf. Knowing Fred's experience level and how fair he is, I would have to say that your car was not judged correctly at Jacksonville. That's not to say the Gold wasn't earned, but knowing the experience and knowledge level of both judging teams, I would place my confidence in Fred's. I would suggest to send off for the judging sheets, see where points were deducted, ask questions, fix what needs to be fixed and try again.
And to Bryan, you just need to remember that attending MCA shows and having a car judged is simply a choice. If it's not for you, it's not for you. But, many others enjoy it and learn a lot through the process. It's kind of like having a Modified or a Concours car, it's just a personal choice. No right or wrong either way.
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C5ZZKGT, which car is yours? I'd like to find it in my pictures.
As far as the comments about the value of the trophy, I think you must consider that 1000's of hours go into a high quality restoration is more the point than what one gets at the end, and because that is what is being recognized, I can see if one feels slighted, that they would be quite upset.
I hadn't been to a GN show since Valley Forge in 1980, or 81, so this one was a lot different. For me, I would have rather seen the cars grouped together by class. I spoke with someone at the show that gave me the reasons it is done the way it is now, and on the one hand, it makes a lot of sense, but on the other, there are a few cars I would have liked to look at back and forth without circling the whole show field. Further, the visual, of a bunch of similar years high quality cars lined up is stunning.
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C5ZZKGT, which car is yours? I'd like to find it in my pictures.
As far as the comments about the value of the trophy, I think you must consider that 1000's of hours go into a high quality restoration is more the point than what one gets at the end, and because that is what is being recognized, I can see if one feels slighted, that they would be quite upset.
I hadn't been to a GN show since Valley Forge in 1980, or 81, so this one was a lot different. For me, I would have rather seen the cars grouped together by class. I spoke with someone at the show that gave me the reasons it is done the way it is now, and on the one hand, it makes a lot of sense, but on the other, there are a few cars I would have liked to look at back and forth without circling the whole show field. Further, the visual, of a bunch of similar years high quality cars lined up is stunning.
I really don't care about the value of the trophy, just was setting Brian straight on exactly what it was.
My car is a '65 Triple Black K code GT Convertible with a Red stripe.
I also agree that cars should be grouped by class, much better that way!
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OK, So I am now understanding that a car can attend any number of MCA shows for as long as the owner wants to go, get judged by many, many different people/judges and might never realize a true judging score, then this will be blamed on inexperianced judges? I think that the MCA has been around too long to operate this way.
And on the fact that the judging sheets go to the MCA headquarters before being sent to the car's owner to keep away from unwanted confrontation...........
I would like to know where the millions and millions of $$ are that we all pay to the MCA each year for our dues if 99.9% of the positions are NOT paid positions?
What exactly am I getting for my contribution each year?
Certainly the travel expenses for the officers are all paid for for each National show each year?
Why should I continue to be part of the MCA knowing that the judging can be so hap-hazard?
How could the MCA allow this to go on?
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i would respectfully suggest you address this to the mca officials on the mca website forum. some of those folks do not visit over on the board.
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OK, So I am now understanding that a car can attend any number of MCA shows for as long as the owner wants to go, get judged by many, many different people/judges and might never realize a true judging score, then this will be blamed on inexperianced judges?
You do understand that judging is a subjective thing. Your car is judged against a standard, but there are sections of the judging that are reliant on the judge's opinion of quality, fit, and finish. That isn't an exact science and never will be. If you want the same score everytime, take up a different hobby.
And on the fact that the judging sheets go to the MCA headquarters before being sent to the car's owner to keep away from unwanted confrontation
I think you're demonstrating why that policy is in effect.
I would like to know where the millions and millions of $$ are that we all pay to the MCA each year?
Would you mind providing the math you used to come up with millions and millions of dollars coming in from +/- 13,000 members?
Why should I continue to be part of the MCA knowing that the judging can be so hap-hazard?
How could the MCA allow this to go on?
Based on your posts over the past couple of days, it sounds like you're not going to be happy extending your membership in the MCA. My opinion, and it's only my opinion, is that if you are showing your automobile in judged events, whether it's Mustangs, Corvettes, Model T's, Jaguars, etc., you've got to go in knowing that you're not always going to be happy with the outcome. I'm sure Bob Perkins isn't always happy with the judging of his cars, and we know the quality of them. The human factor is gonna bite you once in a while. I hear Corvette guys bitch about judging in their shows, I hear MG guys bitch about the judging in their shows. It's part of it. You're going to get a lousy judge some time if you show your car enough (not indicting any judges mentioned on this forum, I'm just saying). As I said before, and again, it's just my opinion, if you can't stand an occasional bad judging sheet (your fault, someone else's fault, or nobody's fault), then don't show your car.
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OK, So I am now understanding that a car can attend any number of MCA shows for as long as the owner wants to go, get judged by many, many different people/judges and might never realize a true judging score, then this will be blamed on inexperianced judges?
That was not what I was trying to say.The point I was trying to make is the points should come out close no matter who judges your car.With the limmited time we have to judge each car a judge can't be expected to catch all the incorrect things.If we had 3or 4 hours it would be a different story.
Most of the dues money goes tward the Magazine.Most of the rest is for admin costs advertizing and providing insurance for club shows.
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I would also add that it seems like you had a bad experience at the Jacksonville show and that is the exception, not the rule. Knowing Fred and Phil it would seem to me that what happened at Md was a more accurate representation of what the judging is. To say that the two experience are representitive of how it is show to show is not accurate. Unfortunately for you and all of us sometimes this happens and does not represent the judging community well. I only wish that when all the events were happening in Jacksonville that you would have called over the head judge to deal with it. We strive for consistentcy but its not always possible. Either Jeff, myself or both of us have been at every MCA, SAAC and Team Shelby show judging for at least the past 5 years except one. Guess which one the problems were at?
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As others have said, there is no way MCA judging can ever be an exact science. There are way too many variables at play when you look at the big picture. What do you think the judging used to be like in the 80's before folks knew much about the cars? It was a whole different ballgame back then. At least now, we have more comprehensive rules and can strive for a higher level of consistency.
In regards to where the MCA dues money goes, that is just a small drop in the bucket and I believe up until recently, MCA was paying more per member than they were receiving. I don't know if that has been completely corrected yet. Most of the money goes towards the publication of Mustang Times. MCA employs 2 full time personnel also, the MCA Times Editor and the Office Manager. As I recall, the club operates on about a $500k budget. Of course, you should be able to find this information by contacting someone on the MCA Board of Directors. MCA is a non-profit organization.
You've come on here and explained your perspective of things and we are only giving you the MCA perspective and why things might be the way they are. We never try to say things with MCA are perfect, there is always room for improvement. It's too bad that you've had to experience what you did so early on, but then again, you are rather new to all of this, so a learning curve should have been expected. I would have hoped your car would have been judged properly the first time though, at least that could have prepared you for anything later on. In the end, remember that the judges are told to be coaches in helping to improve your car. At least that is what I was telling everyone the past few years. If the owners and judges take that mentality, then things greatly improve. As I mentioned before, I would completely trust Fred's judging team and would highly recommend you send off for the sheets and see what you can do to improve the car. You may find that a lot of it is easily fixed and then next time, you shouldn't have much of a problem scoring Gold.
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Charles, It was apparent to me that YOU were sorely missed at Jacksonville, and they were lost without your leadership.
I will say this though, I wish that if the crew at Jacksonville was not knoledgeable enough to judge in Concours Trailered (much less K codes) then they should have told me and everyone else and simply not judged us at all. Again, despite the tremendous heat that we ALL endoured these 2 judges were bumbling idiots imo, and again should have known way better than all the phisical contact that they had with my car, and most likely others as well.
I understand that both Jeff and Allen were at Jax, never met either 1 of them, these are the guys who should have judged in Concours Trailered, NOT the other team who to me lacked the experiance to judge even in a driven class.
Whatever went on that caused you to step down from your position in the MCA is purely none of my business, but it must have been something that you feel pretty strong about, so may be you understand now how I am feeling about the difference in judging on my car between the 2 shows, you (I) live and learn I guess.
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Rick: You know I can't say anything about my departure from MCA on here. But, I would suggest that it was not only my absence that made an impact. Mike Murray and Pete Morgan also stepped down when I did. Mike has been the 64.5-66 head judge for at least the past 4 years and had a great handle on making sure things got done properly and on time.
You do have a nice car, so don't forget that. I sincerely believe that with the most recent feedback from MCA, it would make it all that much better. Try to keep an open mind on the matter as you know there are many of us that support you.
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Rick: You know I can't say anything about my departure from MCA on here. But, I would suggest that it was not only my absence that made an impact. Mike Murray and Pete Morgan also stepped down when I did. Mike has been the 64.5-66 head judge for at least the past 4 years and had a great handle on making sure things got done properly and on time.
You do have a nice car, so don't forget that. I sincerely believe that with the most recent feedback from MCA, it would make it all that much better. Try to keep an open mind on the matter as you know there are many of us that support you.
Thank You Charles. I hope that everyone understands that I am not complaining about a score at Waldorf that I haven't even seen yet, I just know that my car lost more than 21 points to go into the Silver award catagory, and that was really quite a shock to me considering that it only lost 14 points at Jax, and that I had "fixed" 10 of those lost points myself, and then some. I am certainly not complaining about Fred & Phill's judging or knoledge, and I believe I will appreciate what they had to say and deduct for when I get my sheets which I sent for as soon as I returned home.
How can any judge possibly remember MY car or any other well enough to speak to me about the items deducted to be able to accurately help me to do the "fixing" or "correcting" needed? I know that Fred and Phill told me that they put their phone numbers on MY sheet, I appreciate that very much, but if they did this with each car they judged then they might just be opening themselves up (NOT by me) to a phone confrontation on their personal phone line-wow!
Do they get copies of the judging sheets and a picture of each car that they judge to at least have a chance at remembering exactly what the circumstances were for each point they deducted? I think this would be helpful...may be I'll end up sending copies to each of them with a picture of my car so we can all be on the same page when I dig into it.....
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They don't get copies, but I think you would be surprised how much the judges remember about each car. Normally, simply reading off the comments will stir up enough of their memory to know what the intent was.
I guess there were some confrontations in the past that weren't very pleasant, so MCA thought it best to not give judging sheets at the shows. Tempers can flare up at the show, so a week or so of cool-down time usually lets owners get their minds back right to be open to seeing what the judges had to say. From that point, they can choose to contact them if they wish. It says a lot to the credibility of a judge when they put their phone number on the judging sheets.