ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Body, Paint & Sealers => Topic started by: 1966GTFB on October 28, 2011, 11:01:26 AM
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In my detailing guide it talks about black being semigloss. The question I have is, Would the color of the engine bay black be the same as the other parts that are listed as black too? For example would the front sway bar and engine mount brackets be the same black as the engine bay or would one have more gloss than the other.?
My car is a San Jose mid Sept 65 build.
Thanks
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'semigloss black' is a generic term for the black colors. there are numerous shades of semi gloss. remember that each part was painted by the part manufacturer using their formula for black.
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Of course not! Every component came from a different manufacturing plant and were painted with different products with different levels of gloss, and different amounts of color deposited on the surface and dried in different environments with different methods.
The more contrast you have between parts within the "semi-glossed" items, the more original it will look.
One part needs to look like it was painted with enamel and baked...another needs to look like it was painted with fast dry lacquer and dried in a bay where the humidity was 95%.
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I have noted several of the small semi gloss black parts on mustangs in general were dipped and not sprayed at all. This tends to give a more glossy look. I bought a couple gallons of a economy chassis black and dipped several parts and they came out nice.
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I've had a few parts powder coated semi-gloss black, mostly the eight front 65-66 bumper brackets and the cross-bar under the engine, and the recomendation from many sources is to request 20 to 40 percent gloss black from the powder coating company. Powder coat is a durable finish for parts that take a beating but the irony is that the final product looks "dipped".
Same subject, different area - most of the coil brackets I've seen are "glossier" than the coils (like the one sitting on my desk).
Jim
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I've had a few parts powder coated semi-gloss black, mostly the eight front 65-66 bumper brackets and the cross-bar under the engine, and the recomendation from many sources is to request 20 to 40 percent gloss black from the powder coating company. Powder coat is a durable finish for parts that take a beating but the irony is that the final product looks "dipped".
Same subject, different area - most of the coil brackets I've seen are "glossier" than the coils (like the one sitting on my desk).
Jim
Most of the coil brackets I have seen have been zinc phosphate which is typically how I restore them ;). I have come across a few black but they are in the minority compared to the zinc phosphate ones that I have come across. Bob
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I have four original coil brackets all painted semi-gloss black and two of them have the mirror image of the coil marking inside them.
Jim
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I have four original coil brackets all painted semi-gloss black and two of them have the mirror image of the coil marking inside them.
Jim
Jim ,my post wasn't meant to dispute the fact that some were black. I was however mentioning the zinc phosphate so someone reading didn't get the wrong impression from your post that black was the only way they came.
I think it was a vendor thing. The zinc phosphate can also be seen on every year 65-70 Mustang/Shelby and was pointing out that it is more prevelent finish because of that IMO. No doubt more then one vendor typically supplied various plants . I have rarely come across any year Shelby survivor for instance that had a black painted coil bracket which represents SJ 65-67 , Metuchen 68 and Dearborn 69/70. The wide cross section that I have observed certain leads me to believe that the Zinc Phosphate would be in the majority and the black in the minority. I have seen plenty that were black painted on restored cars but consider them not relavant because of all of the other mistakes on the same cars.Bob
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I can't tell where the cars were built that these coils came from, but here in the SF Bay area, most early Mustangs were built in the San Jose plant. The last batch of coils and brackets I have came from a Mustang shop that closed about ten years ago and were part of the last pile of stuff. They are in sad shape. The exposed surfaces of the brackets look almost natural (OK, rustly) but the inside surfaces are definitely painted. The only thing I wanted from those brackets is the hex head clamp screw. Coils with dents and chipped tops, and brackets that have too much rust are going to be tossed.
Jim
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No. The engine compartment i.e. front structure was painted in the prime spray booth baked then masked off for color. Many of the other parts came from multiple outside suppliers so the gloss did vary. Some of small black parts came right from the Ford stamping plant in white (un painted). These parts were painted in the Assembly plant in a flo-coat (flow coat) system. The flo-coat was a booth with multiple fixed nozzels that would coat any thing that came through the boot on the conveyor. The paint would run (flow) off the parts into a pan then the paint was filtered and recycled back to the spray nozzels. No you why there are paint runs on some of the parts. The gloss could vary from day to day.
I am a Retired Ford Assembly Engineer
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Bob, good to see you made your way here. We look forward to your input!
Regarding the engine bay, we are seeing body color under the black, so I would have to guess that it was done after the entire body was sprayed with body color. Maybe you are thinking of the priming process where the bottom of the front frame rails was coated? This coating could extend up quite a ways into the engine bay and outer front inner fenders. It was typically a different shade of primer as, like you mentioned, the belly of the unibody was sprayed with nozzles. Sometimes we see black underneath and red-oxide up under the front or all red-oxide with a different shade at the break of the firewall to the back. Then we sometimes see some slop colors, which as you mentioned, due to mixing all the drippings together.
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Is it possible that the paint process differed between Metuchen and San Jose - and Bob is recalling what he remembered from his days at Metuchen?
Bob Fria, in his book Mustang Genesis, also indicates that the engine compartment was painted before the exterior. I believe he was referring to early Dearborn production.
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At Metuchen, the color spray booth and oven were the last operations in Paint. After that the front structure and interior (instrument panel and doors) were de mask. There was a lacquer touch up booth on the way to the Trim Department. That was so the interior paint could be touched up. Oddly enough, almost every vehicle got some touch up.
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Bob,
We recently had a thread wherein we were trying to piece together a flow chart of the sequence of assembly line operations - both body & paint and trim & chassis. Would you mind very much in beginning a new thread that would detail the operation of the Metuchen line? If you can't speak to the entire line, perhaps you can detail the part(s) you are familiar with? :)
Pete
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It looks like new catagories for assembly line process have been set up. About a month ago I read one on the same subject that I was going to add to, but I can not find it now. Any idea where it is? I will start working on the flow description. I will also see if I have any paper work hidden away. I doubt it because I did not think it was important then.
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Bob,
The thread you're referring to is located here:
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=3602.0
Perhaps Jeff can relocate it in an appropriate section of the new Assembly Line section to kick-start conversation?
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Bob,
The thread you're referring to is located here:
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=3602.0
Perhaps Jeff can relocate it in an appropriate section of the new Assembly Line section to kick-start conversation?
Pete - rather than moving that discussion (that got off thread a bit with NJ, Dearborn and San Jose information all mixed together, why don't you repost your list under the new Metuchen heading with a Topic of something like "66 Metuchen Assembly order"?
Just a thought ;)
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The list and related discussions are predominately Dearborn, as there is more information available for that plant. However, if you feel that the thread is a mix of info, I would suggest moving it to the "General" Assembly Line thread you suggested.
Bob Kiehl appears to be eminently qualified to speak about the Metuchen plant, and I'm looking forward to his explanations.....
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The list and related discussions are predominately Dearborn, as there is more information available for that plant. However, if you feel that the thread is a mix of info, I would suggest moving it to the "General" Assembly Line thread you suggested.
Bob Kiehl appears to be eminently qualified to speak about the Metuchen plant, and I'm looking forward to his explanations.....
Yes there was Pilot plant (doesn't really effect almost any cars around here ;) and a little bit from here and there. Think a fresh start (Bob K should be allot of help in the Metuchen section) I think is best. And from his last comment there appears to be enough differences between the plants not to throw everything in one big pot ;)