ConcoursMustang Forums
General Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Raul-7 on May 02, 2016, 01:44:16 AM
-
I'm looking at an S-code FB; has every option imaginable [courtesy light group, interior/exterior, GT, 4-speed, convenience group, AC, etc.] - only issue is most of the sheet-metal has been replaced, missing correct 9 inch rear and missing original engine block. Wimbledon white with luxury saddle interior.
Would this be worth restoring? I'd like to keep concours or at least 90%.
Would the unoriginal sheet metal lead to a drastic hit in points and value?
-
Raul,
Welcome to the site. Good to ask these sorts of questions before you buy.
If you are talking Concours, the dates don't matter, so you be ok there.
-
The real issue is the quality of the sheet metal repairs. Also very rusty cars are rusty every where. Are there still surprises yet to be found?
Good luck. Marty
-
I'm looking at an S-code FB; has every option imaginable [courtesy light group, interior/exterior, GT, 4-speed, convenience group, AC, etc.] - only issue is most of the sheet-metal has been replaced, missing correct 9 inch rear and missing original engine block. Wimbledon white with luxury saddle interior.
Would this be worth restoring? I'd like to keep concours or at least 90%.
Would the unoriginal sheet metal lead to a drastic hit in points and value?
Welome !!! Best thing you can do is what you just did ! Post question, talk with people that have been through this and take everything into consideration. (From your situation to replies/opinions -meaning some will talk profit loss/some will come from a point of pride/ownership)
From a car stand point a 4 speed S code AC fastback isn't a bad choice IMO -car has a lot going it. MANY have been converted to Elenore clones -so unmolested fastbacks are rarer than those bondo babies at shows and auctions.
Still don't know if this is an assembled car running OR if it is a project that has been "cobbled" to get to this point. NO matter - you have to get the car for the lowest amount you can - you can't make it up with the work that will follow IMO. You have to know what kind of owner you will be. IF you are the type that is embarrassed when you stuff "looks bad" compared to others or if you know you will go down the restoration path, learn and strive for complete correctness then KNOW you will spend years and many dollars. This doesn't mean you can't, shouldn't or won't enjoy it BUT...............
If you wishing to have a fun car, enjoy it and NOT have it apart for long periods of time with dollars dedicated to the current area of fixing then I would question how far is the car from safe drivability, forgo the need for better date codes and enjoy. As long was the car presents well you can always sell it, trade it or keep it with ability to move from place to place inlife. (Now if it was a 67 K Code or 68 R Code then having better date codes would be monumental to value -when selling)
Hope you find a community here, consider showing photos if you have specific questions. It's funny I know people get all wiggy about posting location and photos - I guess they are worried someone is going to find and buy their dream! I am of the opinion that if you are worried someone else is going to buy then you should have bought it already! Sales is about fear, fear that you will be worse off if you don't buy. (Better off if you do)
It's funny I just saw a hand drawn note showing value vs stages of ownership! HIGH when you want something, low when you own it HIGH AGAIN after you sell and wish you hadn't ! (Then again his reference point was a 65 Gt350)
Mark
-
First welcome to the site - hope you find it educational and a great help in all you concours related needs.
I'm looking at an S-code FB; has every option imaginable [courtesy light group, interior/exterior, GT, 4-speed, convenience group, AC, etc.] - only issue is most of the sheet-metal has been replaced, missing correct 9 inch rear and missing original engine block. Wimbledon white with luxury saddle interior.
Would this be worth restoring? I'd like to keep concours or at least 90%.
If your asking will it be worth more than what you put into it - hard to say without looking at the car but in general IMHO no. The vast majority of the people involved in the hobby are not in it to make money but it has a better return (you can lose less money) than most/many other hobby's ;)
Would the unoriginal sheet metal lead to a drastic hit in points and value?
Depends on the buyer and how well the panels were replaced (undetectable) If most of the body needs replacing this may indicate/suggest that the VIN's will move at some point. That one thing (plus its missing the original drivetrain though not as big of an impact with this particular vehicle as others) - would make me suggest to any buyer to pass on such a car.
Also you 10% non concours on such a loaded car might also be a turn off depending on what your thinking of
-
Thanks everyone.
My only change from the original would be to make it Dark Moss Green [would look great with saddle interior] or Acapulco Blue? Wimbledon white seems so stale and mundane. Apart from that I'd love to keep it concours; I like all the unique pieces that make up a concours quality car like the hose clamps, FomoCo labeled parts, Autolite battery, etc.
I'd like to restore it over the years as it would be better than to let such a highly optioned car rot away; to me ANY Mustang is worth restoring - regardless whether it's a T-code or R-code. I tend to notice that once a hobby becomes a judged competition, the enjoyment starts to wear away and it becomes somewhat of a 'job', IMHO.
-
My only change from the original would be to make it Dark Moss Green [would look great with saddle interior] or Acapulco Blue? Wimbledon white seems so stale and mundane.
Those choices will deduct points in a judged show. And I have two Wimbledon White Mustangs, a 66 Hardtop, and a 65 GT Fastback that has been featured in eight calendars over the years, twice on the cover.
Jim
-
Before you get to far into this, does the Marti Report confirm all of those options?
-
The car does not have the original engine, axle or sheet metal and you want to change the color. If everything else on the car is perfect, which is highly unlikely given the engine, axle and sheet metal changes, you would lose 20 points in a Concours class for the proposed paint change. You want to keep the car 90% Concours. That is a 630 point car out of a 700 perfect score. So you could still lose 50 points and meet your objective. 664 to 630 would earn you a Silver in Concours Driven and anything at 595 to 629 would be Bronze. That said, there are far easier projects- -Mustangs that do have their original drivetrains and sheet metal. That is a much better place to start. Since you are asking for opinions, that would be mine. However if you do decide to go this route, the Marti report is vital. Also check the sheet metal and component dates for those that are original. If you find that most of the sheet metal is not Ford, and the engine and axle are not original, then what do you have? To your question: Is it worth it? Not monetarily, but if you are happy with the process as you are going through it, and the final end result, then yes, it will be worth it to you. Good luck which ever way you decide.
-
Before you get to far into this, does the Marti Report confirm all of those options?
Yes.
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c28/Raul-7/Marty.jpg)
-
Hi
Out of interest what condition is the car right now ? i.e. can it be driven, is it stripped down or what? Post pics it will be interesting to see !
-
I'd like to restore it over the years as it would be better than to let such a highly optioned car rot away; to me ANY Mustang is worth restoring - regardless whether it's a T-code or R-code.
Seems that you already had your answer to the question you posted here - guess you were looking for what other people would do in the same situation.
I tend to notice that once a hobby becomes a judged competition, the enjoyment starts to wear away and it becomes somewhat of a 'job', IMHO.
Some might apply the same "enjoyment starts to wear away and it becomes somewhat a "job" might apply to driving and using these cars and the resulting maintenance
The nice thing is that you never have to step into a judging competition to enjoy the car. Most do it to see how their car stacks up against a standard or other cars depending on the venue you choose. The great thing IMHO about this "hobby" is that there are many ways to enjoy your car the way you choose to. Yes others will have their opinion of your choose but be proud of your choice but just don't pretend it is what it isn't ;)
Your choices - enjoy them
-
That's what worries me; the loss of original sheet metal. Not sure how much of a deal breaker that is points wise or value wise.
Engine block and rear-end can be tracked down over time.
Should I look for a donor car made before the build date to solve the sheet metal issue?
-
Assume you acquired the car for free, which is what these basket cases are really worth.
Next add a 1000 to 1500 hours of labor.
Next add up the time and gas and cost to obtain and restore the missing parts.
In my view it doesn't pencil out on a S code, or even a R code, but might on a Shelby GT500 KR.
-
So ideally, I'd need to look for a donor car built around the same date?
-
That's what worries me; the loss of original sheet metal. Not sure how much of a deal breaker that is points wise or value wise.
Engine block and rear-end can be tracked down over time.
Should I look for a donor car made before the build date to solve the sheet metal issue?
Repairs and how they were handled can effect the future value depending on the details and the potential buyers but choosing the best may reduce the impact.
Allot depends on IMHO how much needs to be repaired/replaced. Some are patching as much as possible in an effort to retain the factory attachment welds and dates. Where complete panels need replacing a car with similar dates may be your best choice. In many cases, depending on the panels needed, an easier to find coupe may be all you need- something to consider and often what remains after you get the panel you need may still have value to another owner/shop going through the same process.
Know a number of people on the site that have chosen this path in their high end restorations.
-
Repairs and how they were handled can effect the future value depending on the details and the potential buyers but choosing the best may reduce the impact.
Allot depends on IMHO how much needs to be repaired/replaced. Some are patching as much as possible in an effort to retain the factory attachment welds and dates. Where complete panels need replacing a car with similar dates may be your best choice. In many cases, depending on the panels needed, an easier to find coupe may be all you need- something to consider and often what remains after you get the panel you need may still have value to another owner/shop going through the same process.
Know a number of people on the site that have chosen this path in their high end restorations.
Does it need to be the exact same build date or prior?
-
Does it need to be the exact same build date or prior?
Since it's a 67 (rather than a 65-66) we know that your car was completed Feb 6th so IMHO you don't have as much "wiggle room". In addition to this, finding a car with codes in your general range is not going to be easy but the safe thing is to start the search with cars with similar VINs (same plant) as your car or lower sequential number. You can find a car built later than yours with some panels that might be dated in the range for you but others will likely be after the Feb 6th date or very close so to be on the safe side - focus on or before.
Your next step will be locating as many dates on the unibody panels of your car and documenting them. You'll need them for comparison purposes once you start considering cars . They are everywhere so have fun
Good luck with your search
-
How much of the work are you doing yourself? How much are you paying for this project?. That answer you can keep to yourself, just food for thought on the total project. I do my own work as a hobby, that is the only way I could get a dream car, 1969 Cyclone Spoiler II. It was passed by others, but fit my ticket. Still have tons of money in it. 3/4 of the sheetmetal had to be replaced and everything else has been changed because I am doing the best concours I can. The end result is a car I am happy with. Would you be happy? This hobby should really be about what YOU want, if you want to make money than it is a business not a hobby or to make you happy. My 2 cents.