ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: 67gtasanjose on April 24, 2017, 06:37:08 PM
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Inside this 67 Tilt-Away is the remains of a white bushing that the column stops against when Tilted AWAY (see pic below)
Where can I get one of these, I assume it is nylon because of the color.
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https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/store/p/15386-Steering-Column-Flange-Bumper-Tilt-/-Tilt-Away-Upper-Flange-Repro-1967-1969-Mercury-Cougar-/-1967-1969-Ford-Mustang.html?attribs=75
Is that it??? Dave
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Thanks! I have one coming.
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Another thing I used that may help others remove the tilt pins, I bought a used Snap On CJ134 GM/Chrysler/Ford Tilt Steering Column Pivot Pin Puller. This tool is not quite correct since we need a #6-32 threaded stud to fit into the early Ford pins (the tool is made with a #8-32 thread) The correction is easily remedied by simply running the correct thread die over the small stud (it worked perfectly then!)
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Moving on to the next need, has anyone dicovered a good substitute for the foam insulator used at the lower side of the column tube ? (See picture).
I have read in other threads that nothing was used here but clearly Ford had one planned to be used. Ford was a stickler about engine compartment fumes NOT getting into the interior so perhaps the material used degraded and fell out over early years is why we do not find signs of the insulators on original examples.
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Pipe insulation foam like used for water heaters. Lowes / Home Depot etc.
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Another thing I used that may help others remove the tilt pins, I bought a used Snap On CJ134 GM/Chrysler/Ford Tilt Steering Column Pivot Pin Puller. This tool is not quite correct since we need a #6-32 threaded stud to fit into the early Ford pins (the tool is made with a #8-32 thread) The correction is easily remedied by simply running the correct thread die over the small stud (it worked perfectly then!)
1967-69 tilt pivot pins are 6-32.
1970-73 tilt pivot pins are 8-32.
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I just bought the Snap On tool. I like the pipe foam idea.
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Pipe insulation foam like used for water heaters. Lowes / Home Depot etc.
I was thinking the very same thing ;) Wondered if it had been tried yet. I had a section left over from an installation years ago. COST=ZERO, fits the application 100% perfectly too!
I just bought the Snap On tool. I like the pipe foam idea.
I had one already that I used VERY often on GM & Chrysler columns back in the 90's when the car thieves found out how easy these tilt column cars were to steal >:( Rebuilt many columns for the Auto Body/Insurance companies back in the day. I bought another one to replace the one I decided to "tool down" to fit the 6-32" thread size when I found I could buy one for only $7.50 w/shipping (no-brainer) I want one on hand for the other cars too. The tool has MORE than paid for itself over the years, being the owner of an Auto Repair Shop, I wouldn't want to be without one. I hadn't used it in years now but you know how that goes...
On to another detail...This detail is about the 2 brackets that secure the column to the dash (3668 LOWER, 'U'-shaped & 3676 UPPER, flat w/arc)
1.) There is a black, thin (possibly) nylon insulator between the LOWER bracket & column, my understanding is that this insulator should NOT be painted interior color. Any ideas on a material source to make a new one out of? If it is black plastic, I am thinking of using an old round gear lube bottle (close to same shape). Is it more like a dense gasket material? Looks to shiney for that so... ???
2.) There looks to have been a cardboard-like insulator between the UPPER bracket and the dash panel. Is this actually a cardboard-like substance and/or what should this insulator look like? (Not much left from the original example I have)
PS: Link to another +6-page thread on hoses, reservoirs and other details of the PITA 67 Tilt-Away column... http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=58022;topic=5644.60
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Regarding the cardboard in upper, I'll get pics later. I would classify if more like the brown layers of a Formica board than a cardboard. It is much harder than cardboard and is brittle (snaps like...Formica)
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Picture showing the non-metallic material attached to the upper bracket. I'm still trying to describe what material I would use as a replacement/substitute. It is much more dense than cardboard. I suppose if you took a solid (non corrugated) cardboard from something like your favorite cereal box and glued 2 layers together, that would work (apart from the captain crunch eyeball looking at you).
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I have see some gasket material like that.
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Picture showing the non-metallic material attached to the upper bracket....
This helps a lot. Using your scale, the material looks to be 1-3/8" wide. I measured my upper bracket as 1-1/4" wide so this is actually a little larger than the bracket?
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Moving on to the next need, has anyone dicovered a good substitute for the foam insulator used at the lower side of the column tube ? (See picture).
I have read in other threads that nothing was used here but clearly Ford had one planned to be used. Ford was a stickler about engine compartment fumes NOT getting into the interior so perhaps the material used degraded and fell out over early years is why we do not find signs of the insulators on original examples.
Richard : Several years ago, when trying to put all of the parts together for my Tilt-Away installation, I also had the question as to what to use for the insulator. The 1967 only MPC shows this Part # as C70Z-3C577-B (see first attachment), but unfortunately, the 1967 MPC does not have an illustration for the Tilt-Away unit. There is an illustration, however, in the 1960-68 MPC (page dated April 1968) that shows an insulator that appears to be a cylindrical piece with a hole in the middle, presumably like the "standard column" foam insulator. Based on that, I too was going to use pipe insulation to replace my missing insulator.
However, about 3 or 4 years ago, John (67gta289) told me that he had found this Part # at Mustangs, Etc., and it was not foam (http://www.mustangsetc.com/67-mustang-steering-column-insulator-w-tilt/). As you can see, this appears to be, and is, molded rubber, much more substantial than the normal foam rubber, as well as much more substantially priced. I called them to find out what documentation they had to offer this part as the "correct" C70Z-3C577-B part. They told me that unfortunately they had none. They said that they had bought out a supplier or manufacturer (I can't remember which they said) who had a "bunch" of these that were noted as C70Z-3C577-B. Unfortunately again, these do not have the Part # either molded into the rubber, nor ink stamped on them. I then decided to check all of the resources I had on Tilt-Away adjustments, repairs, etc. This included the other MPC's, the 67 Shop Manual, the Rotunda Diagnosis Manual, the '67 Thunderbird Service Procedures and Program Instruction Manual, and TSB's. I didn't find any verbiage that specifically addressed the insulator, but I did find the attached sheets from the October 21, 1966 TSB. While we all know that one can't count on "Illustrations" as documentation, it is interesting that one of the illustration shown in this TSB shows the "filler" at the bottom of the steering column tube to be more like the molded rubber piece, and another illustration it appears more like the straight cut-off cylinder of foam rubber. Based on that, plus the fact that we can't imagine someone going to the trouble of reproducing a quantity of these parts without having something to model from, John and I are using this insulator in our Tilt-Aways. As we know, many changes were made during the 1967 model year, with a lot occurring in February of 1967. Based on that, plus the fact that the 1960-68 MPC illustration appears to show the insulator as the cylindrical block of foam rubber, the molded rubber may be correct for the pre-February model (which would include yours). In any case, it will definitely seal better, and definitely last longer.
Bob
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On to another detail...This detail is about the 2 brackets that secure the column to the dash (3668 LOWER, 'U'-shaped & 3676 UPPER, flat w/arc)
1.) There is a black, thin (possibly) nylon insulator between the LOWER bracket & column, my understanding is that this insulator should NOT be painted interior color. Any ideas on a material source to make a new one out of? If it is black plastic, I am thinking of using an old round gear lube bottle (close to same shape). Is it more like a dense gasket material? Looks to shiney for that so... ???
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Still looking for ideas on the LOWER black insulator...
Although Marty mentioned a potential running change or production change at the steering box end of the column (inside engine bay) my request for the "LOWER black insulator" is asking for recommendations on material used between the steering column LOWER U-shaped bracket to the steering column tube (under the dash). Pictures suggest this to be black in color. Is it a black plastic or a black gasket/rubber material?
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Can the vacuum release valve be taken apart and repaired?
What is the usual failure?
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Still looking for ideas on the LOWER black insulator...
Although Marty mentioned a potential running change or production change at the steering box end of the column (inside engine bay) my request for the "LOWER black insulator" is asking for recommendations on material used between the steering column LOWER U-shaped bracket to the steering column tube (under the dash). Pictures suggest this to be black in color. Is it a black plastic or a black gasket/rubber material?
Richard : To avoid confusion, particularly for those not familiar with 1967 Tilt Columns, I thought that I would attempt to clarify a couple of items.
The 1967 Tilt Column, like the non-Tilt Columns, has one bracket that attaches the Steering Column to the bottom of the dash. This Bracket consists of two pieces ; an upper (3676) and a lower (3668) piece. Each of these pieces has an "insert" between the piece and the Steering Column. The two Bracket pieces can easily be seen in the Illustration shown from the 1960-68 MPC (copy attached). In addition, if you zoom in you can see part of the "insert" in the lower bracket. To better show the inserts, I have also attached an illustration from a non-tilt column that generically shows both the upper and lower "inserts".
John has provided what he found (a Formica-like material) as the "insert" in the upper piece of the Bracket, and you are trying to find out if the "insert" in the lower piece of the Bracket is the same material, or some different material, correct ?
Now that any confusion is hopefully explained in regard to the Bracket, I must add to additional confusion.
In checking my resources to find out if any noted the "inserts" themselves, I ran across some interesting, yet confusing items.
The 1967 only MPC (printed January, 1967), shows the Lower piece of the Bracket to be Part Number C7ZZ-3688-A, and the Upper Part to be Part Number C7ZZ-3676-A, both for the Tilt Column Only (just as a matter of reference the parts for a non-Tilt Column are shown as Part Numbers C0DF-3668-BP, and C0DF-3676-AP).
The 1960-68 MPC (appropriate pages printed June, 1968) shows that the Lower piece of the Bracket is still Part Number C7ZZ-3668-A, but now is not listed for "Tilt only". The Upper part of the Bracket is still listed as Part Number C7ZZ-3676-A for the Tilt Column, and for non-Tilt Columns, Part Number C5ZZ-3678-B is shown. (interestingly, in checking the 1967, 68 and 69 OSI books, I found no reference where the C0DF-3676-AP was replaced by the C5ZZ-3678-B).
Finally, in looking at the 1965-72 MPC (printed May, 1975), neither the Lower, nor the Upper Bracket pieces are shown for 1967 Tilt Columns. In checking the OSI books again, sure enough, some time between January of 1972 and July of 1974, both the Upper and Lower Bracket pieces were deemed "NR" (obsolete).
While going through all of these did not provide any insight on the "inserts", it did provide some interesting information, and unfortunately more questions, on the Bracket pieces.
Bob
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Can the vacuum release valve be taken apart and repaired?
What is the usual failure?
Yes, very easily. The failure point is a form of leather seal. If not torn, it can usually be softened and lubed again.
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Richard : To avoid confusion, particularly for those not familiar with 1967 Tilt Columns, I thought that I would attempt to clarify a couple of items.
The 1967 Tilt Column, like the non-Tilt Columns, has one bracket that attaches the Steering Column to the bottom of the dash. This Bracket consists of two pieces ; an upper (3676) and a lower (3668) piece....
...John has provided what he found (a Formica-like material) as the "insert" in the upper piece of the Bracket, and you are trying to find out if the "insert" in the lower piece of the Bracket is the same material, or some different material, correct ?
...
Bob
Thanks for the research Bob, yes, I am looking for information on the correct material and dimensions for the lower bracket insulator.
I did make the upper out of white/brown gasket material.
The lower, for now at least, has been made from a semi-gloss black paint can lid. FWIW, It looks perfect and fits perfectly too!
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Yes, very easily. The failure point is a form of leather seal. If not torn, it can usually be softened and lubed again.
+1 just did one from a 67 T-Bird I picked 2 weeks ago. Did not move when vacuum was applied. Took apart and found that there was debris in there and it was desert dry. Took a good cleaning followed by some lube and a few manual cycles to seal up and move with vacuum with repeatability. I’ve also seen broken springs due to rust corrosion.
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Richard, I'm a little confused about your term "lower" bracket insulator. When installed, the ones painted black are on top (upper) whilst the color keyed ones are on the bottom (lower). See the attached. Do you need any more information?
Also on the upper (black) clamp, I'll stick with my earlier description of a thin laminate (think a very thin piece of Formica). I'll probably mic it tomorrow. As you can see from the pic is covers the whole surface, no hang over.
The lower clamp has a piece of rubber held on with black glue.
These are all identical to my San Jose tilt-away clamps also.
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Richard, I'm a little confused about your term "lower" bracket insulator...
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The lower clamp has a piece of rubber held on with black glue.
Sorry for confusion...
Picture attached. Whatever WAS on mine, wasn't there at time of installation. As mentioned in another reply, I found a (temporary) substitution.
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Got it.
For record, a flexible piece of black rubber about 3/32" thick. Held on with a liberal amount of black glue.
I noted a V-notch cut in the rubber on all of the examples I have.