ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1968 Mustang => Topic started by: Oz390 on August 08, 2010, 07:42:27 AM
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Getting ready to drop the 390 back in a '68 GT coupe. 4 speed car... I noticed these two holes while installing the firewall items and don't recall anything mounted there, but the memory after a few years is not reliable... all pics I have of the disassembly show nothing, but the car was 3/4 disassembeled by the PO when I got it...
Anyone know what, if anything, should go here?
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h180/dalorzof/CIMG0024-1.jpg)
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No one????
I've seen a few other pics hunting around and see simiar on other cars.... someone has to know what these were for... ?????
Did not think this would be such a mystery. :-[
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No one????
Well I'll try - haven't been on for a couple of days
I've seen a few other pics hunting around and see simiar on other cars.... someone has to know what these were for... ?????
Looked through over three hundred cars and could not find any thing mounted there and the few I have pictures of this area/surface had not depressions at that location
Did not think this would be such a mystery. :-[
You never do when its your car ;)
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I find plenty of mystery in each one.... the one consistent one is how Ford made them so fast, what an operator on the line probably had 3.278 minutes to do generally seems to take me a week! :-\
Thanks for the info.
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Getting ready to drop the 390 back in a '68 GT coupe. 4 speed car... I noticed these two holes while installing the firewall items and don't recall anything mounted there, but the memory after a few years is not reliable... all pics I have of the disassembly show nothing, but the car was 3/4 disassembeled by the PO when I got it...
Anyone know what, if anything, should go here?
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h180/dalorzof/CIMG0024-1.jpg)
When you look at the hole opening is it a drilled hole (flush both sides ) or a punched hole (would have metal sides flared up on the interior side). Bob
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Look to be a dimple that was drilled and then a self tapper put through, some "uplift" of metal on the inside...
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Have seen dimples (stamped into the metal) where the metal was either thin or the press pushed too far punch through metal but never used. Examples the 6 cylinder throttle dimples on a V8 car
Just a thought
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My convertible just got back from the shop, got final inspections and its back on the road and fully registered for any-time use today after a 7 year restoration!!! Whoo-hooo! ;D
I took a mirror and looked at it. Same holes. Nothing in them.
Both S codes, both San Jose cars, both Dec 67 builds. Convertible is a C6, the coupe a GT 4 speed. So it seems factory, as the odds of two PO's doing the same thing in exactly the same spot seems a long shot... some sort of positioning jig for the car during fabrication... they are sizeable holes, probably fit a #14 or 1/4" self tapper...
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Look to be a dimple that was drilled and then a self tapper put through, some "uplift" of metal on the inside...
The dimples were not drilled for screws. They would only be punched. The punched hole gives more material for a screw to bite on. I can't remember seeing anything used in that are. Bob
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drilled.. punched, OK a hole was made and looks like a self tapper installed... still no idea why Ford put these here?
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drilled.. punched, OK a hole was made and looks like a self tapper installed... still no idea why Ford put these here?
You are missing the point. If it was drilled then it was not done at Ford and Ford didn't put it there as you are so quick to assume. If it is punched then that is a different story. You said drilled in a earlier post. Bob
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Ok, you seem to want to argue semantics and have completely missed the question by hanging on the one word "drilled", I aplogize as I used this as generic term for forming a hole in metal. I was not there when they were made and will retract the use of the term so lets just call them "openings of uncertian origin" to make you more comfortable...
Let me clarify.
There are two holes in the tranmission tunnels, of unknown origin and manufacture, in my two '68 S codes.
The holes are identical in location and size, thus appear to be factory items (photo above of one set). The two cars are both San Jose S codes, built 6 days apart in Dec '67. The convertible has all matching VIN's and the matchin partial VIN on the block (I did not check the c6 when it was out for a VIN stamp). The coupe has all matcvhing VINS and a correct VIN stamp on the toploader, but a repalced engine. One auto (convertible) and one manual (coupe, photo above). Both Marti verfied. As such, it appears to be a common trait for the two cars, not related to transmission, and a factory item (unless two PO's, prior to 1991 on the convertible and prior to 1985 on the coupe, did the same thing.. that seems highly unlikely to me).
They appear to be sized for #14 or 1/4" fasteners (I have not screwed anything in as I can't really get to the one in the convertible, a transmission is in the way, and I don't want to mar the paint on the coupe if I'm not going to put anything in them). Possibly used for the typical hex head tappers, as there is some small amount of metal pushed up on the inside of the tunnel on the coupe and the outlines from the outside appear have the dimpled look of the other location points stamped into the firewall. I can not determine if the amount of pushed in metal is due to a punch being used to make the original opening or if a small pilot hole was there and the pushed in metal is from the use of the (unkown) fastener type.
The question is "why is this factory pair of holes in both cars, and what were they used for?" I am not concerned about how the original openings that accepted the fasteners (of unknown type) were made by Ford (as they are clearly factory items if you look at them) prior to their use, but what the point of making them was...
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Ok, you seem to want to argue semantics and have completely missed the question by hanging on the one word "drilled", I aplogize as I used this as generic term for forming a hole in metal. I was not there when they were made and will retract the use of the term so lets just call them "openings of uncertian origin" to make you more comfortable...
Let me clarify.
There are two holes in the tranmission tunnels, of unknown origin and manufacture, in my two '68 S codes.
The holes are identical in location and size, thus appear to be factory items (photo above of one set). The two cars are both San Jose S codes, built 6 days apart in Dec '67. The convertible has all matching VIN's and the matchin partial VIN on the block (I did not check the c6 when it was out for a VIN stamp). The coupe has all matcvhing VINS and a correct VIN stamp on the toploader, but a repalced engine. One auto (convertible) and one manual (coupe, photo above). Both Marti verfied. As such, it appears to be a common trait for the two cars, not related to transmission, and a factory item (unless two PO's, prior to 1991 on the convertible and prior to 1985 on the coupe, did the same thing.. that seems highly unlikely to me).
They appear to be sized for #14 or 1/4" fasteners (I have not screwed anything in as I can't really get to the one in the convertible, a transmission is in the way, and I don't want to mar the paint on the coupe if I'm not going to put anything in them). Possibly used for the typical hex head tappers, as there is some small amount of metal pushed up on the inside of the tunnel on the coupe and the outlines from the outside appear have the dimpled look of the other location points stamped into the firewall. I can not determine if the amount of pushed in metal is due to a punch being used to make the original opening or if a small pilot hole was there and the pushed in metal is from the use of the (unkown) fastener type.
The question is "why is this factory pair of holes in both cars, and what were they used for?" I am not concerned about how the original openings that accepted the fasteners (of unknown type) were made by Ford (as they are clearly factory items if you look at them) prior to their use, but what the point of making them was...
The sarcasm and impoliteness is not appreciated . Since I am not there and the photos are incomplete (not close enough)I have to rely on your written description. Semantics in this case helps tell the difference between what is factory and what isn't. How the holes were made are important to help establish authenticity which is one aspect of the total answer you are looking for. You are apparently not familiar with this aspect of Ford build techniques. Since I am not familiar with the pair of holes I was trying to offer help taking a forensic like approach. That is why the information was offered. If you are going to continue to participate in this forum politeness gets the best results in the present and in the future. Bob
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............The question is "why is this factory pair of holes in both cars, and what were they used for?" I am not concerned about how the original openings that accepted the fasteners (of unknown type) were made by Ford (as they are clearly factory items if you look at them) prior to their use, but what the point of making them was...
OK get this possibility since both cars may have been constructed with panels stamped at the stamping plant at the same time/day. A flaw in the lower firewall panel produced the punches (that were corrected on later panels)
A possibly?? ;)
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No sarcasm, just trying to get off the semantic sidetrack of "how", due to my choice of one word, and back to "what"... as they are factory, or at least "Ford" IMHO.
On Jeff's note of a stamping error, I thought of that as my cars are 6 days apart, but I don't think so.
I have pictures of a '65 and other 68's with the same holes (or very, very similar as exact measurments are hard to get). I have a guy with a '67 big block and a '67 small block saying he has the same holes. And another '68 or two here in Oz with them. Out of the few replies with photos I got to queries, the majority show these. Indeterminate on others, as some of the replies here in Oz were right hand drive conversions which means serious firewall surgery, so they were removed from the sample. They are hard to spot unless the engine and trans are out and you are looking from a very low angle, required a mirror-on-a-stick for my running auto car. So not something the average photos would show.
I am unsure of plants for all, as noted mine are both Dec 67's San Jose builds, not sure of date/plant stamps on the panels.
So it does not seem a shhort term stamping error. Or related to engine, as it is on big blocks and small blocks (not sure about any 6's). I have an auto and a manual, so does not seem realted to transmission. Its not console, as neither of mine had one. Or AC as mine don't have that option either. And it sits way to high, as far as I know, or can tell from the FAM's and other references I have, for brakes or fuel. And no electrics there as far as I know....
Its not a large sample, actually very very small, but with what I am seeing it is not "uncommon" as most of the good photos I have are showing them, or very similar, which would seem to indicate some factory or dealer commonality. As to me the odds of a number of PO's doing the exact same thing seems a bit of a long shot.
Some sort of buck/locator for some purpose at the plant, similar to the paint dolley marks? Locating the sheet metal for welding??? Maybe done on "some" cars and not others for ??? reason???
I really don't know and thought the concours crowd may know, or have an interest in finding out what these are, as it seems a bit of a mystery, and not uncommon.
All I am trying to do is determine what these are, and in asking around I am finding more and more cars that show very, very similar holes that do seem factory... with nothing in them. I'm just becoming very curious as to why they are there...
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My 67, Dec 66 SJ built, automatic trans, does not have these holes. No dimples either.
I've spent quite a bit of time comparing a 67 GT 350 to mine, since both are SJ builds, close in dates, and torn down. I can say that when there are differences, one car will have punched holes and the other will have dimples. One example is the holes on the GT 350 for the manual trans based speedo cable. I've got dimples because mine is an auto. There are other examples, but always comes down to dimples.
I've looked at pictures for about 10 others, but only a handfull were sans drivetrain where I could see really well. No holes like yours.
Good luck. John
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(http://i37.tinypic.com/noezrk.jpg)
This is an April '68 Dearborn car. I also checked my March and April San Jose cars; all three have these holes. From what I can see on my assembled cars there are no bolts, screws or anything else in the holes. Not much help!!
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Three San Jose cars to offer -
8R01C139316-
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/67-8%20Mustang%20Pics/8R01C139316Firewall.jpg)
8R01C162524 -
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/67-8%20Mustang%20Pics/8R01C162524radsupportmark.jpg)
8T01T155691-
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/67-8%20Mustang%20Pics/8T01T155691fdire.jpg)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/67-8%20Mustang%20Pics/8T01T155691fdire23.jpg)
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I think Jeff's pictures of 8T01T155691 answers the question. It appears to me that the holes are for the 6 cyl. throttle linkage; although without inspecting an actual car I will leave it as an observation for now. Thanks for posting the additional pics Jeff.
The holes are also present on 8R01C162524 but not filled.
Danny
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I think Jeff's pictures of 8T01T155691 answers the question. It appears to me that the holes are for the 6 cyl. throttle linkage; although without inspecting an actual car I will leave it as an observation for now. Thanks for posting the additional pics Jeff.
Think we have a WINNER !!!! :)
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Cool, mystery solved. Now I know nothing goes there on my S code!
Thanks!!!! ;D
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I know this is the 67-8 section, but a little FYI on those holes.... they were also present in 65-66, most likely a carryover detail for later cars.
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My convertible just got back from the shop, got final inspections and its back on the road and fully registered for any-time use today after a 7 year restoration!!! Whoo-hooo! ;D
I took a mirror and looked at it. Same holes. Nothing in them.
Both S codes, both San Jose cars, both Dec 67 builds. Convertible is a C6, the coupe a GT 4 speed. So it seems factory, as the odds of two PO's doing the same thing in exactly the same spot seems a long shot... some sort of positioning jig for the car during fabrication... they are sizeable holes, probably fit a #14 or 1/4" self tapper...
I find it difficult to believe there was no filler in these holes on V8 cars.
Ford was a stickler for keeping engine compartment fumes out of the passenger compartment so...
I have these holes and will leave them there but what about covering them with a foil tape or the likes, from the INSIDE obviously?
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That appears to be where the 6cyl throttle linkage bracket would have been bolted.
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Having issues with page 2 of thread showing up blank so I can't add/see/modify pics. Try later...
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i had same issues as you did.
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Having issues with page 2 of thread showing up blank so I can't add/see/modify pics. Try later...
Clear now but no post on page two from you so I guess removing it (I didn't) may have fixed what ever was the issue.
Thought the discussion was done. Question was asked and answered. Guess others wanted to discuss it further after 10 years