ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1969 Mustang => Topic started by: Brian Conway on February 05, 2014, 05:36:29 PM
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I have always had to much free travel in the brake pedal and figure it has to be a component issue. I did replace the master cylinder recently and am now thinking the problem may be with the booster and possibly the extensions on that booster. So for starters I would like opinions on the correctness of this booster ? Factory 'Power Disc Front Brakes' on a Metuchen 9/19/68 Mach 1.
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Looked through my picture collection of 69 NJ cars. Not one of them had that brand of power brake booster :(
All had the Bendix style (crimped not banded) and check valve at approx 10 o'clock style
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Looked through my picture collection of 69 NJ cars. Not one of them had that brand of power brake booster :(
All had the Bendix style (crimped not banded) and check valve at approx 10 o'clock style
+1. The large fomoco in a oval metal stamped into the case indicates a typical service replacement part which is not assemblyline on even a true Midland Ross booster equipped car . That could explain a missing Bendix unit ;) .
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It looks like a Midland brake booster as found on 1967-68 cars. Not just the unit, but the rear bracket and vacuum location. His car is an early 1969 car, could the factory have been using remaining 1968 parts?
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........................His car is an early 1969 car, could the factory have been using remaining 1968 parts?
Don't know - no examples seen supporting that. I don't see that brand being installed typically at NJ in 68 so it might be a stretch to thing they were "using up" left over stock ;)
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Do you know if your car came from the factory with power brakes? Dealers installed power brakes on cars at customers request.
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It looks like a Midland brake booster as found on 1967-68 cars. Not just the unit, but the rear bracket and vacuum location. His car is an early 1969 car, could the factory have been using remaining 1968 parts?
]I have seen some early Dearborn 69 cars with the Midland Ross booster and it is a early 69 car . I have also seen the same in vintage magazine test article pictures which were no doubt early 69 year examples. Typically a Bendix unit is used in the 69 model year. The unit in the picture is a replacement as indicated by the markings so that calls into question authenticity. Midland Ross and Bendix will cross fit each other and it is the luck of the draw many times when getting a replacement especially at a auto parts store. FYI you get the FOMOCO in the big oval metal stamped (in picture) as rebuilds at auto parts store now too. That service style Midland Ross has been around since the late 60's. Which adds to the confusion when trying to get to the bottom of if Midland Ross style installed on assemblyline or not.
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Well thanks fellas. That didn't take to long. Yes, assembly line installed disc brakes. So the FoMoCo unit pictured is a service replacement and is not correct for this car. I should be on the look out for a Bendix power brake booster, crimped not banded with the check valve in the 10:00 o'clock position. Should there be any other markings ? BENDIX imprinted, part numbers, date codes or sheet metal stamps ? Should it have it's own mounting bracket/assembly. As mentioned a direct swap ? Brian
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A complete unit should be a direct swap using all the same hardware to mount. No spacer or filter needed on the "new" one ;) But keep those since someone will be looking for those in good condition
Sorry don't have one in front of me (all my cars have the version used at other plants) so I can't provide a makers mark or that numbering system. Sure others will have one handy
Here is a picture of the style/type I found - example is a 69 NJ car
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/69-70%20Mustang%20Pics/9T02M186301mcandbooster_zpsa982d603.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/69-70%20Mustang%20Pics/9T02M186301mcandbooster_zpsa982d603.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/69-70%20Mustang%20Pics/69%20NJ/69Bendixbooster_zpsbb4803af.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/69-70%20Mustang%20Pics/69%20NJ/69Bendixbooster_zpsbb4803af.jpg.html)
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First off thank you Jeff for photo reference's and you other fella's for trying to clear this up for me. I have been doing some checking around and am tripping over the mounting bracket bolt patterns. The Bendix booster mounts with 5 studs through the fire wall. None of the mounting studs are visible from the engine compartment side. The existing unit mounted in the car has the Midland booster bolt pattern. Four studs through the firewall, none are visible from the engine compartment side, and one bolt high and right. In the photos below that one bolt is visible high and to the right. So I am leaning toward the Midland-Ross booster as most likely being correct. If the Bendix is correct what fills the now vacant hole ?Not being real familiar with these units I really appreciate the help. Opinions ? Thanks, Brian
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First off thank you Jeff for photo reference's and you other fella's for trying to clear this up for me. I have been doing some checking around and am tripping over the mounting bracket bolt patterns. The Bendix booster mounts with 5 studs through the fire wall. None of the mounting studs are visible from the engine compartment side. The existing unit mounted in the car has the Midland booster bolt pattern. Four studs through the firewall, none are visible from the engine compartment side, and one bolt high and right. In the photos below that one bolt is visible high and to the right. So I am leaning toward the Midland-Ross booster as most likely being correct. If the Bendix is correct what fills the now vacant hole ?Not being real familiar with these units I really appreciate the help. Opinions ? Thanks, Brian
Re read reply #6 .
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................. If the Bendix is correct what fills the now vacant hole ?Not being real familiar with these units I really appreciate the help. Opinions ?
IMHO the hole being there is not a 100% true indicator of the type of style of master cylinder originally installed Drilled allot of holes, removed inset nuts and other things to make things fit in the 70-80's with this car.
Order a booster and one shows up in a box. Different holes, bolts or mounting nuts..... didn't stop me from using it rather than messing around with the parts guys and waiting for another part that was likely not be like the original either :(
If it were mine - I would put back what I'm finding in my research rather than being the guy who will get asked later ."Why does your car have that _____" where the owner answers "That is the way it was when I bought the car in 1990" Just an example
Just one opinion
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we have a NJ 69 cj car here built early nov 68 with 30.000 miles with midland & just looked at an original Dearborn oct 68built 69 cj car sitting since 1980 & its got midland booster also
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Well thank you specialed for taking a look and posting. There are several other Midland examples around, Dearborn, but yours is the first from Metuchen. I took my booster off today and the pedal support bracket has a special provision for that high and right bolt. So I am beginning to think the type of booster was determined by the pedal support bracket. Did the 69 Bendix booster have the visible flange ? Thanks, Brian
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.............. Did the 69 Bendix booster have the visible flange ? Thanks, Brian
Here is a shot (took for every to find one) showing that area and the top upper right mounting point on a Bendix from a 69 NJ car
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-120314214831.jpeg)
Just for the heck of it here is how they handled that mounting point (firewall to pedal bracket) on a non- power brake car
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-120314214728.jpeg)
Interesting that the pedal bracket is painted and in nice condition compared to everything else. Might it be a replacement ? Though it doesn't make any difference likely in this discussion
I've got a related question - Has anyone seen a Bendix booster in a Ford service box? I've only got NOS Midland boosters in pictures, wondering if Midland got the contract for the service replacements
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1 way oftelling if booster was changed (Dearborn anyway) is that upper bolt had 38 in head. I never seen a nos mustang bendix serviced only midland but I have nos torino 69 booster & its bendix
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Thanks for the extra pictures. So, at least one NJ Midland ? I have never seen at bolt head with a ' 38 ' actually numbers ? Brian
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Thanks for the extra pictures. So, at least one NJ Midland ? I have never seen at bolt head with a ' 38 ' actually numbers ? Brian
Don't know that the specific bolt head markings apply to NJ or San Jose. Ed sort of focus's on those Dearborn cars and the head marking on that bolt is one of his pet peeves ;)
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Thanks for the input and pictures. All things being considered; the pedal support bolt pattern, the firewall bolt pattern and the seemingly correctness of the Bendix over the Midland I decided to go with the Bendix unit. Brian
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Thanks for the input and pictures. All things being considered; the pedal support bolt pattern, the firewall bolt pattern and the seemingly correctness of the Bendix over the Midland I decided to go with the Bendix unit. Brian
Ohhh Ahhh - looks good.
Don't forget the black master cylinder cap and bale if your going all factory and such ;)
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AHH yes, more black paint and brake fluid nice combo. Notice the picture of the windshield washer hose strap at the fire wall ? Brian
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AHH yes, more black paint and brake fluid nice combo. Notice the picture of the windshield washer hose strap at the fire wall ? Brian
Yep and you'll want to tape the wire back to the T retaining clip ;) Thin black friction tape above and below
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Am learning from you guys with Brian's '69 Brake Booster thread while servicing my 69 Cougar's Bendix leaking master cylinder. Car has been off the road for 1.5 years now while I've been rebuilding it's front suspension, ball joints, etc. It's a Dearborn plant car date code 19E, Marti report lists actual built date of 05/14/69 and release date of 05/27/69 ordered through Oakland, CA to a San Bruno dealership. I've owned it since 05/77. So, with Ed and Jeff's posts, I've checked the upper right hand firewall booster bolt. After cleaning this bolt head up, it reveals the "38" stamp on the bolt head, like specialed had posted. (pic attached). However, the booster looks to be a Bendix booster without the Bendix logo on it, and the vacuum port is at the 10:00 o clock position and a plug welded or pressed in at the 12 o clock position, and no drop down "bump" below the master cylinder mating flange. It appears to be a stained silver/grey color and the firewall mounting bracket is also silver on backside and engine side and is welded to the booster at four points. It has the tear drop pedal rod. It has four bolt studs and the hole at the mounting bracket upper right ear for the "38" bolt from engine side. While watching Don Rush's interview with booster Steve, while comparing 69 boosters, at 18:45 Don and Steve show what looks like my booster as a Bendix unit perhaps orignally for other Ford products (Pinto, Mustang II) when rebuilders where running short on cores?? Should I look for a Bendix booster that is stamped Bendix, or have this one rebuilt? Car isn't 100% concours, or super rare build, but try to keep it close. They state it's a good driver quality booster, so may just be a decision if I want to pony up another $200.
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Am learning from you guys with Brian's '69 Brake Booster thread while servicing my 69 Cougar's Bendix leaking master cylinder. Car has been off the road for 1.5 years now while I've been rebuilding it's front suspension, ball joints, etc. It's a Dearborn plant car date code 19E, Marti report lists actual built date of 05/14/69 and release date of 05/27/69 ordered through Oakland, CA to a San Bruno dealership. I've owned it since 05/77. So, with Ed and Jeff's posts, I've checked the upper right hand firewall booster bolt. After cleaning this bolt head up, it reveals the "38" stamp on the bolt head, like specialed had posted. (pic attached). However, the booster looks to be a Bendix booster without the Bendix logo on it, and the vacuum port is at the 10:00 o clock position and a plug welded or pressed in at the 12 o clock position, and no drop down "bump" below the master cylinder mating flange. It appears to be a stained silver/grey color and the firewall mounting bracket is also silver on backside and engine side and is welded to the booster at four points. It has the tear drop pedal rod. It has four bolt studs and the hole at the mounting bracket upper right ear for the "38" bolt from engine side. While watching Don Rush's interview with booster Steve, while comparing 69 boosters, at 18:45 Don and Steve show what looks like my booster as a Bendix unit perhaps orignally for other Ford products (Pinto, Mustang II) when rebuilders where running short on cores?? Should I look for a Bendix booster that is stamped Bendix, or have this one rebuilt? Car isn't 100% concours, or super rare build, but try to keep it close. They state it's a good driver quality booster, so may just be a decision if I want to pony up another $200.
If it were my car I would look for a booster that has the vacuum port at 10 o clock position with no plug at 12 and the Bendix trademark. It is your choice .You do what is best for you. you may be able to go to the auto parts store and get a rebuilt unit and use your mis matched booster as a core. That is probably the easiest and least expensive . I think the rebuild guys charge 250.00 plus shipping to and from for a rebuild. Open the box at the auto parts store and inspect the rebuilt to see what it looks like and if it is not a Bendix and or the right Bendix then reject it. It will most likely be a Midland type. Some stores will let you do that a couple times. If not you will have to go to a different auto parts store and try it. Unfortunately the auto parts store booster rebuilds are notorious for not being done very well and have a high failure rate after initial installation. It is a gamble. What with the labor intensive installation most of the people I know send them in to booster Dewey/Steve to rebuild for added insurance. If you choose to send one off for a rebuild and can't find a core I have a Bendix core.
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The 6945 booster is for 70. The 69 booster is 6943. A 6945 will work with a 69 if the rod is changed but I would assume you want the correct part.
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So, Cobra jet_carl, found your response too late. I had and sourced a 6945 Bendix marked booster, sent to Karps for rebuild and master cylinder sleeve. It has the tear drop rod connection. It's 1/8" to 1/4" shorter than my take off booster, from firewall bracket to master cylinder mount. Probably have to adjust my piped lines a bit for proportioning valve setup.