ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Processes, Products & Techniques => Topic started by: Bob Gaines on June 28, 2014, 01:51:02 AM
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I broke down and bought a 2.5 cubic foot vibratory tumbler for larger metal items and need some advice on what media to use. I have used steel shot in a smaller unit with good success and the green parimids in the smaller bowl type . I have never used the ceramic however. What are people using for a finished metal look like on control arms etc. ? Charles ? Anyone?
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Angle cut ceramic is what you want. The one for steel.
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Angle cut ceramic is what you want. The one for steel.
This stuff? http://www.harborfreight.com/5-lbs-medium-ceramic-abrasive-polishing-tumbler-media-60547.html . They seem to be the cheapest . Where do you suggest buying it?
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3/16" angle cut cylinders, here:
http://www.candmtopline.com/media_compounds.html
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3/16" angle cut cylinders, here:
http://www.candmtopline.com/media_compounds.html
Just got a call from C+M a week after the initial order that they are out of stock ( thank you very much >:( ) of the cylinders until the end of july first of august . Anyone have a alternative. I got the machine and hate to have it set idle for a month. Charles?
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I've only used media from C&M. I actually have the bigger cylinders in my tumbler now, but Perkins said the smaller work better.
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Im still trying to get over the Harbor Freight comment.... :-[ I will not even drive past the one here in town and go out of my way to drive around it so I dont have to see it.
I bought my media and tumbler from C&M Topline a few years ago and been using this ceramic here. Works outstanding and never had any issues with it. I prefer not to use anything to small because of issues of it getting caught in your parts. I would look at the triangle type like I have here....but I think there is several different ones that would work just as well.
http://www.candmtopline.com/special_order_media.html#ceramic (http://www.candmtopline.com/special_order_media.html#ceramic)
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/azscj/DSCN7260_zpsb58b6978.jpg)
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/azscj/DSCN7261_zpsd49f3e5a.jpg)
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Just got a call from C+M a week after the initial order that they are out of stock ( thank you very much >:( ) of the cylinders until the end of july first of august . Anyone have a alternative. I got the machine and hate to have it set idle for a month. Charles?
After calling back to ask about the triangles I got another salesman who after checking miraculously came up with the 3/16 cylinder media after all :o . After all the drama my media is being shipped, supposedly ::) .
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Well...sounds like you got it figured out. This is one of the best tools I have in my shop, you will wonder why you waited so long.
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I'm still trying to get over the Harbor Freight comment.... :-[ I will not even drive past the one here in town and go out of my way to drive around it so I dont have to see it.
I bought my media and tumbler from C&M Topline a few years ago and been using this ceramic here. Works outstanding and never had any issues with it. I prefer not to use anything to small because of issues of it getting caught in your parts. I would look at the triangle type like I have here....but I think there is several different ones that would work just as well.
http://www.candmtopline.com/special_order_media.html#ceramic (http://www.candmtopline.com/special_order_media.html#ceramic)
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/azscj/DSCN7260_zpsb58b6978.jpg)
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/azscj/DSCN7261_zpsd49f3e5a.jpg)
I see in the photo a gas cap. I assume it has been run in this tumbler to polish it.
I was unaware you could do this to chromed items.
I continue to be amazed with the methods (available) used to "keep it simple"
I really need one of these systems too, but maybe it is more cost effective to find somebody local (or send enough things out) to somebody who does this for hire. I don't know which is wiser, but obviously costs play the larger role here. Most of you guys are doing these jobs as a profession, and do not necessarily do the tasks involved individually for hire.
Since I am at the "cleaning" process of undercarriage, I see a great potential in the tumbler process, yet a large tumbler and the different types of media & the related costs would prevent a do-it-yourselfer of doing it themselves.
Any ideas or suggestions guys?
Richard
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I use "The Deburring Company" in Livonia with great success. They bring truck loads in and have a location in Toledo, OH also. Will send you a PM.
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I see in the photo a gas cap. I assume it has been run in this tumbler to polish it.
I was unaware you could do this to chromed items.
I continue to be amazed with the methods (available) used to "keep it simple"
I really need one of these systems too, but maybe it is more cost effective to find somebody local (or send enough things out) to somebody who does this for hire. I don't know which is wiser, but obviously costs play the larger role here. Most of you guys are doing these jobs as a profession, and do not necessarily do the tasks involved individually for hire.
Since I am at the "cleaning" process of undercarriage, I see a great potential in the tumbler process, yet a large tumbler and the different types of media & the related costs would prevent a do-it-yourselfer of doing it themselves.
Any ideas or suggestions guys?
Richard
I think Marcus put the gas cap there to give an idea of the size of the media, I'm pretty sure the cap would be destroyed after a few minutes with that media.
Some of us have tumbled bits and pieces for others, but it takes time and isn't free. These machines are expensive, as well as the media.
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how do folks typically charge for this service?? by the item, by the size or??
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Actually I put the gas cap in there just to have something to show the size of the media for comparison...and...to see if Bob noticed an original Autolite gas cap from a 68 GT500KR....but I think I think he was so excited about the media he didnt notice.
I do tumble things on occasion for people but the best option is always to find someone local. Usually you can find someone and saves time and shipping. Alot of machine shops or fabrication shops have tumblers.
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Im still trying to get over the Harbor Freight comment.... :-[ I will not even drive past the one here in town and go out of my way to drive around it so I dont have to see it.
You have more will power then I but it will be put to a test because you will be thinking about it now. ;D The tumbling media was one thing that they are way more expensive on.
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I think Marcus put the gas cap there to give an idea of the size of the media, I'm pretty sure the cap would be destroyed after a few minutes with that media.
I was wondering about that :)
Thanks all for the comments. I've considered a smaller tumbler for bolts/hardware etc, but the larger items I wasn't sure what way I wished to go just yet. Problem is, they are all off the car, disassembled and as soon as I'm done paying the IRS, will be my next project.
Richard
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I recently got a large tumbler and after reading the posts here I didn't see anyone mentioning using anything but the media besides water has anyone found the need for the solutions sold with the ceramic media or is water alone giving a desired finish.
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I use TSP, Tri-Sodium Phosphate, in mine with water. For some reason, I get minimal surface rust with TSP.
I also use a rock tumbler with brake drum filings as an abrasive media on small items, nuts, bolts, washers, etc. Nothing but glass bead blasting will clean up threads.
Jim
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What parts are you folks cleaning up with these tumblers? Any before/after pics?
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Well...sounds like you got it figured out. This is one of the best tools I have in my shop, you will wonder why you waited so long.
Great minds think alike Marcus. I have the same unit. I split mine in haIf and use ceramic in 2 sizes. I use mine as much as I can fo all kinds of things. Just curious about the gas cap and if you ran it through the tumbler. Also just bit the bullet and purchased a vapour blaster. So now between the vapour blaster, tumbler and media blaster, combined with electrolysis & Evaporust I should be able to deal with any metal prep in house. I am looking forward to seeing how some new bright zinc plated parts look when I tumble them.
FYI small parts are a bit of a challenge to find and to dig out I find and also the smaller media I am using is too big to clean threads on fasteners for example.
I put these parts in the tumbler and like how they turned out
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What parts are you folks cleaning up with these tumblers? Any before/after pics?
Here are a few examples of before and after.
The power steering bracket was polished at some point, so I used the tumbler to remove the shine and give it a more natural look.
Most of the metal parts we previously painted, so I used paint stripper first and then put then through the tumbler.
Some parts that did not turn out as well as I hoped they would I ran through the vapour blaster after and was pleased with the results.
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What size/type media is being used on each side?
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8826.0;attach=52248;image)
I have a standard size cement mixer and found that a 5 gallon bucket fits snugly inside the vanes. I tried some rock inside the bucket just to see if the rock "tumbled correctly."
It sounded like it was tumbling.
Anyone else tried that (besides the Youtubers that I don't trust)?
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I have a standard size cement mixer and found that a 5 gallon bucket fits snugly inside the vanes. I tried some rock inside the bucket just to see if the rock "tumbled correctly."
It sounded like it was tumbling.
Anyone else tried that (besides the Youtubers that I don't trust)?
Hi Bill not sure why it posted the photo sideways for some reason.
The small size is about the size of a pea and the larger size are about the size of a peanut in the shell. I can measure them next time I am at the shop.
It is interesting how the units works. It just churns counter clockwise. I find it works great on medium size parts. Sometimes I media blast a part then tumble it, or just paint strip it and tumble it or Evaporust and then tumble it. So far I have not had a part in the tumbler for more than an hour, but plan to experiment as it is still a new process. It's pretty loud when it is running so its a good thing we have the machine outside the back of the shop in the compressor room with the media blaster etc.
I have attached a video that shows how it works. The part just tumbles over and over and the it is not an aggressive process. It is more of a subtle process that give a smooth consistent finish. I do like how you can brighten up a dull part and dull a bright part. I am looking forward to seeing how it works on bright zinc to see if it gives it a dull zinc look.
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Here are a few examples of before and after.
The power steering bracket was polished at some point, so I used the tumbler to remove the shine and give it a more natural look.
Most of the metal parts we previously painted, so I used paint stripper first and then put then through the tumbler.
Some parts that did not turn out as well as I hoped they would I ran through the vapour blaster after and was pleased with the results.
Very nice! Thanks for sharing.
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Thought on an inexpensive tumbler idea. Friend of mine gave me an old/new harbour freight cement mixer. Don't have a pic but it is clean in the barrel. Opinions on using this with ceramic or other media to act as a large tumbler ? Just a thought over the real nice 2000k to 3000k tumblers. Opinions ?
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Way back when I worked for a living (Production Control Manager), my company used a device similar to a cement mixer to clean metal parts via tumbling. The parts were not large nor heavy - the size of a tie rod end. The "heavy" aspect is that heavy stuff would eventually puncture the drum. The media was triangular shaped ceramic pellets about the size of a cherry pit to a small olive. I don't believe there were mixing blades inside the drum. It took several hours to clean up a batch so it ran all day and was emptied at the end of the shift.
For Mustang restoration to clean hardware and other small items, I use a rock tumbler or a vibrator (see Eastwood). Large stuff gets bead blasted.
Jim
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Not sure what you would coat the interior surface of the mixer to eliminate the contact between the parts and the metal drum and blades. Any contact between metals can result in unwanted issues especially in the turning/rotating and dropping actions this sort of machine produces
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I suspect there is more technology to a well operating tumbler for our kinds of parts than meets the eye. Looks simple/easy but isn't. I am also shopping for a tumbler and hope to find a nice used Mr. Deburr or similar.
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Hi guys, thanks for your input. It was just a thought. I agree with all that was pointed out. Thx, Ron
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I took our cement mixer and put a 5 gallon plastic bucket inside of the 3 vanes.
That kinda worked so then I put wood vanes inside of the plastic bucket so that the media would tumble better. Hmmmm.
Not so impressive so I took smaller parts and put them in the vibratory tumbler. Much better.
I think the commercial version is the way to go.
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I found a used Mr Deburr 20x16 seems to be a very good size verse price it fits UCA's LCA's up to a manual trans main case using 1/4" by 3/8" angled cylinder ceramic media. I saw this at a outfit that bought out closing machine shops which seems to be happening at an alarming rate.
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What's the going rate $? If you dont mind sharing ? Thanks...
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The local deburring company near me charged $50 for a 5 gallon bucket of stuff including several control arms
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The local deburring company near me charged $50 for a 5 gallon bucket of stuff including several control arms
Thats a good deal.
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I suspect there is more technology to a well operating tumbler for our kinds of parts than meets the eye. Looks simple/easy but isn't. I am also shopping for a tumbler and hope to find a nice used Mr. Deburr or similar.
I bought mine direct from the manufacturer, he actually suggested on the phone that he had a refurbished unit for sale. It was perfect for my occasional use and saved a bit of $$ over a new one.
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I would not use a tumbler to clean parts as dirty parts "load" the media and this can be hard to get clean. Besides, there are faster ways to clean parts such as blasting, stripping, soaking, ultrasonic cleaning etc.
For mass finishing I have a Raytech AV75DC vibratory tumbler for the majority of parts. This is by far the quickest and easiest way to achieve the correct finish on metal parts that are seen.
I used a cement mixer with the blades removed to tumble large parts that did not fit in the vibratory tumbler. The results were very satisfactory.
The video attached is using 3/8" ceramic polyhedrons.
I really enjoyed learning about mass finishing and would say it is the one thing I found most interesting about restoring my car.
https://youtu.be/iJVRNLvgLck (https://youtu.be/iJVRNLvgLck)
Check out these articles if you want more information from the experts.
The Art of Mass Finishing (https://raytech-ind.com/the-art-and-science-of-mass-finishing)
Guidlines for Successful Finishing (https://raytech-ind.com/guidelines-for-successful-finishing)
Understanding Media (https://raytech-ind.com/understanding-media)
Chris
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I would not use a tumbler to clean parts as dirty parts "load" the media and this can be hard to get clean.
Some thoughts on the "media".
In my vibrator parts cleaner (the Eastwood type), I add TSP (Tri-Sodium Phosphate) to the water and the "green pyramids" (aka media) which seems to apply a protective coating to reduce flash rust the water might create. To clean the green pyramids, I use a plastic kitchen food "rinser".
. . there are faster ways to clean parts such as blasting, stripping, soaking, ultrasonic cleaning etc.
That last statement has more truth than you can imagine. A bead blaster is probably more practical and more universal than a tumbler. I use old carburetor cleaner (Berryman's B12) as a stripping/soaking agent, and have a small ultrasonic cleaner, but I find that ultrasonic is not that useful (i tried, it worked "fair").
Jim
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Some thoughts on the "media".
In my vibrator parts cleaner (the Eastwood type), I add TSP (Tri-Sodium Phosphate) to the water and the "green pyramids" (aka media) which seems to apply a protective coating to reduce flash rust the water might create. To clean the green pyramids, I use a plastic kitchen food "rinser".That last statement has more truth than you can imagine. A bead blaster is probably more practical and more universal than a tumbler. I use old carburetor cleaner (Berryman's B12) as a stripping/soaking agent, and have a small ultrasonic cleaner, but I find that ultrasonic is not that useful (i tried, it worked "fair").
Jim
TSP is the recommended cleaning solution for media.
I use Raytech Compound B in the vibratory tumble as it is a flow through design(think wet sanding) unlike the closed process of straight tumbling. I have always run straight water through the system after use to rinse media and bowl.
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All great info. Thanks for sharing. It will be put to good use. Thanks to all for participating.
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I wrote about this a while back since so many people always ask about this and its one of the best tools I have in the shop:
http://anghelrestorations.com/uploads/3/5/1/2/35122002/mt_february_17_tumbling.pdf (http://anghelrestorations.com/uploads/3/5/1/2/35122002/mt_february_17_tumbling.pdf)
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I purchased all my supplies from Raytech. I highly reccommend you read this.
Thanks for posting Chris. Will have to reach out and see if we can get permission to add it to our Library here
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Thanks for the responses. If I want to purchase one but felt it was important to do the research before making the move. Thought about a bead blaster, but that takes up a lot of room I don't have. Chris, I will check RayTech.
I would be using it for mostly steel parts; so based Jims post ceramic or iron filings might be best.
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I had a couple of aluminum power steering pump brackets tumbled, and think that they might need more work.
The first picture shows the tumbled brackets along side one that is what they looked like prior. They look pretty good, but do I need to do more work?
The second picture is a close up showing some "outie" bumps on the surface. Other than weld splatter, which does not make much sense to me given the application and location, I have to think that this is how the part was cast. Any comments on that? Am I over thinking this whole thing? Thanks.
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Tumbling or "mass finishing" is commonly done on steel parts to finish or debur and from my experience your tumbler may have been using a media for steel and not aluminum specific leading to the courser finish. It can take a lot of trial and error to get a finish similar to what we like to see as a restoration I've had good results from a small ceramic media with a soapy added compound that gives a more polished finish to aluminum than a courser finish you have here.
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John, PM me if you would like me to vapor blast the bracket for you. I do a lot of them and they do come out nice. I?m currently overthinking the color of my top loader transmission case, so I feel your pain.
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John, Bobby did a PS bracket and a cobra intake for me, and I was very pleased both with the results and the turnaround time.
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Thanks for the feedback. Prior to additional tumbling or the vapor blasting alternative, should I remove the "outie" bumps, or leave them?
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Thanks for the feedback. Prior to additional tumbling or the vapor blasting alternative, should I remove the "outie" bumps, or leave them?
John, the bumps are very typical for others that I have done and I assume from the casting process, so I would definitely leave them so that the part doesn?t look obviously refinished.
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Guys I was wondering which type of Tumbler and media to use to get a Factory bare steel look...
Most suspension parts such as UCA, LCA, perches, sway bar U-brackets, Strut rod brackets, Rear shock plates...etc
For now my parts look to be polished and I want to tone them down to look Factory correct.
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So your looking for one of the large commercial type machines given the parts you listed.
Think they typically use allot of large bags or ceramic rods
There is already an established thread that I will merge this thread with.
An additional one for smaller "bench top" vibrator tumblers is below
https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=28927.0 (https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=28927.0)