ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: Fastback2013 on November 14, 2015, 05:22:36 AM
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Good morning,
I want to dismantle all the items from my exterior rear view mirror (driver side) with remote control, for re plating/chroming.
I have searched on internet but didn't find any explanation on how to remove the 3 cables from the control knob, or from the mirror case.
There must be a simple(?) way to do it, but I don't want to do something stupid ;)
Thanks for your help.
Kind regards,
Jeroen
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Hello Jeroen,
I have separated these before many years ago but I recall it being difficult. #1, each cable must be marked to ensure it returns to the same location. Paint daubs work well for marking, use three different colors. Next, since the pot-metal housing are crimped onto the cable casing and the cable tips. You need to be very careful separating or spreading the crimps but once you have, the cables can be disconnected. I practiced on a "junk" one first but you will likely not have that luxury. I also had another 3rd mirror that I simply cut another end off of and prepared the end to go back on to the cables differently, I removed the cables and filed the holes from the inside till the cables fit correctly then lightly crimped them after assembly.
I hope others have found an easier way and chime in. This worked for me on the one occasion I tried it but I imagine there are other, possibly much better ways where original pieces are not requiring replacement to accomplish the task.
Good Luck!
Richard
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I have done it as well and agree with Richard it is not easy.
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Thanks Richard for your time and explanation!
Good idea for marking the cable ends with different colors.
Can the knob being separated from the pot-metal housing?
Must I turn the knob like a screw?
It is obvious that this job isn't easy (at the remote's end), but I do not see how to begin for disconnecting the cables out of the housing of the mirror?
I see 3 holes in that casing and all the 3 cables are going through those holes, but I can't see (visually) were those cables stops (= plate where the mirror itself is attached to).
Thanks for your help everybody.
Kind regards,
Jeroen
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Thanks Richard for your time and explanation!
Good idea for marking the cable ends with different colors.
Can the knob being separated from the pot-metal housing?
Must I turn the knob like a screw?
It is obvious that this job isn't easy (at the remote's end), but I do not see how to begin for disconnecting the cables out of the housing of the mirror?
I see 3 holes in that casing and all the 3 cables are going through those holes, but I can't see (visually) were those cables stops (= plate where the mirror itself is attached to).
Thanks for your help everybody.
Kind regards,
Jeroen
Yes, I believe the knob itself can be unscrewed (though I never tried to) but a detail I didn't mention earlier, you disconnect the ends of the cables at the "knob end" housing (remote control end) and thread the three cables through the mirror housing after unscrewing the top, not disconnecting them from the mirror end at all.
You could be able to purchase a cheap used OE mirror in, shall we say, "restorable condition", for around $20-$40 US plus shipping and make a "practice run" as I mentioned I had done back some +20 years ago. It helps you make mistakes that you won't probably do on your own, plus, if you cut off the cables, like I had done, you can easier mutilate that end without damaging the cables themselves which is crucial....DO NOT BEND THE CABLES AT ALL or it will not work correctly when re-assembled.
Richard
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Good morning,
I want to dismantle all the items from my exterior rear view mirror (driver side) with remote control, for re plating/chroming.
I have searched on internet but didn't find any explanation on how to remove the 3 cables from the control knob, or from the mirror case.
There must be a simple(?) way to do it, but I don't want to do something stupid ;)
Thanks for your help.
Kind regards,
Jeroen
Something to consider is that typically in the process of rechroming the sharp edges of the housing are rounded off substantially in the polishing process. It might be better if you take the original glass that is date stamped and replace that into a reproduction housing. If you have a rounded off edge rechromed housing with original glass it is no better then a correct appearing housing with no date code. Of course the ideal would be a original appearing housing with date code glass. That can be accomplished the ideal by putting the right glass in the repro housing. Just more input for the discussion.
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Something to consider is that typically in the process of rechroming the sharp edges of the housing are rounded off substantially in the polishing process. It might be better if you take the original glass that is date stamped and replace that into a reproduction housing. If you have a rounded off edge rechromed housing with original glass it is no better then a correct appearing housing with no date code. Of course the ideal would be a original appearing housing with date code glass. That can be accomplished the ideal by putting the right glass in the repro housing. Just more input for the discussion.
This is what I did.
Yes the knob will just screw off.
Marty
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Thank you all for your comments and help.
In attachment a close up of the mirror case : are these the edges you mean that will be rounded up?
If it could be done 50 years ago with 'sharp' edges, why can't it be done the same way now?
Or is there another manor of production?
Out of curiosity : why is an original shell that is re chromed and with more round up edges less in quality (for judging) than a repro shell with 'sharp' edges?
I thought that clean up/ replate/ re chrome original parts was something that adds points up?
Again, I know that such details are less important for my car here in Belgium, then with you guys in the USA !
I am glad that I even have one :)
Kind regards,
Jeroen
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The mirror shell is made from pot metal which is soft. When the old chrome is striped off they basically sand it loosing the crispness of all the edges. The quality of the reproduction chrome is pretty good and may be less costly than the replate too. If you put a date coded mirror in it few judges could tell that it was not original.
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Thank you all for your comments and help.
In attachment a close up of the mirror case : are these the edges you mean that will be rounded up?
If it could be done 50 years ago with 'sharp' edges, why can't it be done the same way now?
Or is there another manor of production?
Out of curiosity : why is an original shell that is re chromed and with more round up edges less in quality (for judging) than a repro shell with 'sharp' edges?
I thought that clean up/ replate/ re chrome original parts was something that adds points up?
Again, I know that such details are less important for my car here in Belgium, then with you guys in the USA !
I am glad that I even have one :)
Kind regards,
Jeroen
It is points down if the original parts can't be made to look as good as original in appearance . You would have to read up on the diecast chrome plating process to understand better the difficulties to strip and prepare for re chrome a old die cast part compared to rechrome of a new diecast part that has never had chrome on it.
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It is points down if the original parts can't be made to look as good as original in appearance .
Not always true. A chrome shop that specializes in antique car chrome work can "restore" the finish. My complaint is that they are sometimes too good, there is a deep blue "glow" that results.
When the old chrome is striped off they basically sand it loosing the crispness of all the edges.
That's one process, sand, that the shop I used doesn't employ harshly. It's mostly all chemical dips, more than 30 times in a dip of one nature or another, strip, rinse, plate, rinse, etc, with several steps of buffing as appropriate. Filling pits it the artistic part. Pot metal is difficult, but it can be done. You need to point out what you want done and what concerns you have, edges, recesses, flats, etc. I had my original 66 Rotunda mirror re-chromed, base and housing. It came out looking good (except for the deep blue - see above). The hardest part was reassembling the mirror and base, until I took apart a repro and reassembled it to find the "trick" (the long screw alignment). The cable ends were painted green, red and yellow, but the paint had flaked off over time. Testor's Model paint "restored" that feature. Fortunately for me, the interior control arm and plate were not in need of any work. I don't know the availability or quality of chrome shops in Europe, which may be your biggest problem.
Jim
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Not always true. A chrome shop that specializes in antique car chrome work can "restore" the finish. My complaint is that they are sometimes too good, there is a deep blue "glow" that results.That's one process, sand, that the shop I used doesn't employ harshly. It's mostly all chemical dips, more than 30 times in a dip of one nature or another, strip, rinse, plate, rinse, etc, with several steps of buffing as appropriate. Filling pits it the artistic part. Pot metal is difficult, but it can be done. You need to point out what you want done and what concerns you have, edges, recesses, flats, etc. I had my original 66 Rotunda mirror re-chromed, base and housing. It came out looking good (except for the deep blue - see above). The hardest part was reassembling the mirror and base, until I took apart a repro and reassembled it to find the "trick" (the long screw alignment). The cable ends were painted green, red and yellow, but the paint had flaked off over time. Testor's Model paint "restored" that feature. Fortunately for me, the interior control arm and plate were not in need of any work. I don't know the availability or quality of chrome shops in Europe, which may be your biggest problem.
Jim
Regardless of how it is done if the finished product doesn't look like it supposed to it will be points off if noticed . This is not a simple question that has a simple answer. The part that may not be always true is the chrome platers ability and the variable of the core being used. Some chrome shops can be less aggressive on polishing or told to be . Most chemically strip the chrome off anyway. It is the after striping and the polishing prior to the final chrome plating that does the damage. The core used if pitted will require a lot of work which multiples the chances to have it look different . On older diecast cores sometimes if the core doesn't have pits ones will show up caused by reactions to the plating process which cases the process to be redone and added copper (one way) plated over the imperfections to build them up which again requires polishing prior to the chroming process. The point is there is more chances for it to come out wrong then come out right on THIS particular part given the design. This is a complex question and answer. The point being that replating a original part is not always the best solution to the best restored part. I thought I would mention that the difference between the rounded contours of a Rotunda mirror and the sharp edges a 67/68 Mirror are night and day in relation to this discussion.
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Given the choices of finding a decent or NOS mirror, using one that is in sub-standard condition or having a shop chrome an old one are challenging. A good shop can do the chrome. The problem is finding one. It can be done.
Jim
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I just recently did one for a 68 Shelby GT350 that I am doing. The chrome shop I went to did a great job on the plating (although the idea of using a repro housing is a pretty good one if you don't have access to a quality plater). As noted, the little tabs that are crimped to hold the cable ends in place are brittle and can easily break when pried apart or re-crimped. Rather than messing around with trying to spread the tabs I just used a Dremel tool and carefully cut them open just enough to slide the cable out. Then, when I put the cables back, I fixed them in place with a daub of automotive panel adhesive. Works great and it's a much easier process.
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Was just scanning some TSB's for other threads and since this was in the same group as my focus thought I would post it here. Seems that Ford was having issues with the remote mirrors and addressing customer's complaints. Here was the Fords instructions to the service managers in March of 1967
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/5/6-070216164042-5178445.jpeg)
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Here is how I am attacking the Remote Mirror Restoration. A couple of years ago, I started removing parts on my '67 Convertible. I started taking inventory of everything that I needed to either Replace, Restore or use "as is". One of the first things I noticed was that the Remote Mirror was showing signs of its almost 50 years of age. The base was pitted, and the Mirror Housing was starting to show signs of it. I then removed my Passenger Side Accessory Mirror, which I had purchased NOS in the early 80's, and installed in the mid-eighties. Surprisingly, it had "weathered the storm" rather well, even with not having been garaged all of the time, the previous several years in particular. It actually looked as good as when I installed it. Knowing that I would be redoing the car one day, I did not really expect the Passenger Side Mirror to survive very well, so I had picked up another NOS one in the early 90's, figuring that I would need to replace it. Now, I had an "extra" one, that I could either sell, or put back on the shelf once again, for "down the road".
At that point, I got thinking; what if.............. Sure enough, in checking the Factory Remote Mirror with the Passenger Side Accessory Mirror, the casting numbers were the same, and the gasket that came with it even has the large hole in it for the cables to pass through. It was now just a matter of swapping out the base and housing, and transferring the cabled Remote Mirror to the NOS housing. Yes, I'll probably have to end up removing the cables from one end, but I did this on my '66 years ago, and as long as you go slowly, it's not really that bad. In going this route, I won't have to worry about any "square edges" being rounded during the replating process, or getting a bad plating job, etc. And all of this is not even taking into account the cost savings.
Twenty years ago, or so, I wouldn't have thought twice about having my original Remote replated. However, today, there are not near as many platers that will do die cast, much less guarantee it, and when you do find one, you have to find out what process they use (it's my understanding that there are two or three different processes), and once you are satisfied as to how the end result will look, be ready to "pay the price". I recently had a die cast Spotlight Bracket (approximately 2-3/4" x 8") for a 1957 Ford replated, and had quotes from $120 to $185. This makes it a viable option to find a NOS Passenger Side Accessory Mirror to use to replace parts on the Factory Remote Mirror. As the same Mirror was used on Full Size Fords, Fairlanes and Falcons as well as on Mustangs, they do surface fairly often; usually for $100 or less, NOS. I'm sure this would be considerably less than having the original replated.
At least this might be something to consider. When I actually make the conversion, I may find that it was harder than it appeared; but right now, this is the way I am proceeding.
Bob
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Thanks to everybody who has given their vision/meaning for this topic.
When I hear the rates that you have to pay for re-plating and the 'easy' access for purchasing NOS at a reasonable price, it is the proper way for handling this problem.
However, for a not US citizen it's not that easy :-[
When purchasing a NOS, then I have to add shipping costs, customs and VAT - making a total cost (for 1 piece) that's breath taking :o
So, I must replate my existing parts, and when he ask me +/- $100 for re-chroming, I still do some profit ;D
I do have another question concerning the mirror itself.
Bob (Gaines) has pointed out that the glass is date coded.
Where is it applied?
Is it like the windscreen?
At the backing plate (where the glass is mounted on) there are 2 letters 'R' and 'G' engraved, but on the glass itself I do not see anything.
Am I missing something, or is the glass been replaced over the years?
Could someone place a picture?
Thank you again for help and explanation.
Have a nice weekend,
Kind regards,
Jeroen
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I do have another question concerning the mirror itself.,,,,,,,,,,,
Where is it applied?
On the face of the mirror facing you as you would view it in the car - very small
Is it like the windscreen?
Smaller and just the date. Don't recall anything else included. Certainly not all the verbage one sees on a windshield, side or rear glass in a car.
Not an easy thing to get in a picture as the auto focus on the camera doesn't always catch the surface of the mirror as the focus point. Think I've tried but generally I get a blurry blob to indicate its location at best
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Thanks Jeff,
I have looked and looked, but not seeing anything...
I posted a picture of the glass, can you say where the date code must be (which quadrant)?
And knowing that my car was built on 01/12/67 what would the date code (approximately) be?
Also, the edges off the glass are grinded somewhat in an angle (I do not know the correct term in English).
Must that be so, or otherwise when the edges must be straight - we can say it has been replaced over the years???
thanks for your help again!
Kind regards,
Jeroen
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Thanks Jeff,
I have looked and looked, but not seeing anything...
I posted a picture of the glass, can you say where the date code must be (which quadrant)?
And knowing that my car was built on 01/12/67 what would the date code (approximately) be?
Also, the edges off the glass are grinded somewhat in an angle (I do not know the correct term in English).
Must that be so, or otherwise when the edges must be straight - we can say it has been replaced over the years???
thanks for your help again!
Kind regards,
Jeroen
Typically a little up from the bottom edge . It is in the location of your middle line.
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Well I just had to try to get it in a photo but just as Jeff said it is blurry. At least you can see it at the top center of the mirror to the right of the garage door opener reflection.
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Thanks Bob and Ruppstang,
I have never, ever looked so long in mirror ;), but didn't find/see it :(
The whole mirror assembly is original, but apparently the glass isn't...
Sorry for repeating, but what would the date code (approximately) be for a January built car?
Is there a way for remove the glass out of the backing plate?
I assume it is glued in? So perhaps with heating?
Kind regards,
Jeroen
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They beat me to it. The edges are normally softened to reduce a sharp edge much like a vanity mirror in a home. Location of the date I believe varies between years/time periods.
Thanks for the picture Marty :)
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I believe I saw someplace that Ford made a knob replacement kit which included crimping on a new knob and included instructions.
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The Knob is threaded and just screws on. At least it does on the 68 model.
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I know this thread is on 67/68 but WCCC has a good 69/70 video on mirrors.
https://youtu.be/-PQw_J52CU0
Mark
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I got a better picture of the date code and also the profile of the edge.
Marty
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Finally got here where my '67 is yesterday. I checked my mirrors for codes on the glass. Here is what I found :
1) Original Driver's Side Remote - "1-DM1-7" on bottom center of glass
2) Passenger Side Matching Mirror - "3-DM1-3" on bottom center of glass (this was NOS and installed in early 80's).
3) "Extra" Driver's Side Remote - "12 JCG" on top center of glass (picked this up as a spare in early 2000's). Exc Used.
4) Passenger Side Matching Mirror - "2-DM1-7" on bottom center of glass. NOS in OB, picked up in late 90's.
Now the big question - what do these codes mean ? All have C7AB bases.
Bob
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in addition to Bob's question, can anybody give us also the approx. dimensions of that date code?
Is it possible that those date codes can be 'whipped out' due to elements and time?
it looks that my glass is an original, but can not see anything :(
If I have the explanation of Bob's question and knowing in which dimensions I must stay, it wouldn't be that difficult for making a new mirror and engraving the possible correct date?
Thanks,
Jeroen
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Sorry for reheating this topic, but I want to finalize the whole mirror assembly.
But would it be correct if my date for the rear view mirror is "1-DM1-7"
since my car was built on the 12Th of January?
I saw also the other thread (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=14964.msg93253#msg93253)
And for being sure... is it 'DM1' or 'DMI' in the middle of the date code?
Can also somebody be so kind to give me the overall length and height of the date code?
Then I can ask at the glass shop for inscribing the date on the new glass.
thanks for your help!
Kind regards,
Jeroen
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Sorry for reheating this topic, but I want to finalize the whole mirror assembly.
But would it be correct if my date for the rear view mirror is "1-DM1-7"
since my car was built on the 12Th of January?
I saw also the other thread (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=14964.msg93253#msg93253)
And for being sure... is it 'DM1' or 'DMI' in the middle of the date code?
Can also somebody be so kind to give me the overall length and height of the date code?
Then I can ask at the glass shop for inscribing the date on the new glass.
thanks for your help!
Kind regards,
Jeroen
I would think your mirror's date ought to be a few weeks, not more than about a month ahead of your actual build date on your example. Assembly at the plants was still in full swing at that time frame so I doubt the date would be as much as 8 weeks before. (Translated: You ought to have a mid-December to VERY early January date for your car's assembly date)
You might look into other threads on "windshield etching" "window etching" or "glass etching" since many people have done this to obtain date code correct glass for their projects. I imagine a similar technique could be adapted to the mirror glass too. Matching the font type and size would be the hardest part if you do not have a similar example to use as a guide.
I am interested in this idea to "date stamp" your mirror. I would consider doing it also if it works out. Old mirror glass, even if you find the correct date or already have one, USUALL isn't in very good condition after 50 years.
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If one were to spend time focusing on doing the dating one might consider using a technique that uses clay or silicon and acid. A stamp is used to make the impression in the the clay.
Was a process used at least 30 years ago to reproduce markings on door and other glass on restored car
Just a thought and a possibility
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After removing only the mirror glass panel from the metal cable-connection panel on an original drivers side mirror, I discovered the date code etching is within the "silvering" layer of the mirror.
I installed JUST the dated glass into a reproduction mirror assembly and side-by side to the original FoMoCo one, besides the pitting on the original one and no numbers on the base of the aftermarket one...I think it passes muster very nicely ;) Thanks everyone for combined wisdom ;) The 3rd picture is of the original glass (just the date-coded glass) after being installed into the new reproduction mirror assembly and the next 2 pictures are of a side-by side of the original with this re-pop mirror. (FWIW, The new mirror I used was an 'old stock' Scott Drake mirror I bought many years ago from somebody selling leftover parts on ebay.)