ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1968 Mustang => Topic started by: WT8095 on April 25, 2015, 10:42:03 PM
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Jeff posted a Marti report for mhubert89 in this thread: http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=11028.msg65987#msg65987
What caught my eye was the entry for "Louvered Hood". My fastback (San Jose, 2/7/68 actual build date) was built with a louvered hood. The unique special paint color makes it easy to confirm (or should I say extremely unlikely) that the hood has been swapped, as there are sections of the original paint that were covered during a bad repaint that are visible with the hinges and trim removed. And the louvers have overspray of the original color. Yet my Marti report did not list the louvers.
Looking at mhubert's report and one other I found, it appears that a "3" in column 51 of the order image coincides with "louvered hood" being listed on the report. But my column 51 is blank. The two cars with louvered hoods listed were built in March and April, in Metuchen and Dearborn respectively.
That suggests a couple of possibilities:
1) Louvered hoods were still standard equipment in February (in San Jose anyway) and no code was required for them to be installed. That contradicts what others have posted about the louvers being optional after the strike was settled in Nov. '67.
2) My car was not supposed to receive a louvered hood but somehow did anyway.
3) Someone swapped hoods from an identically painted car, or managed to duplicate the original color and finish.
The attached photos aren't great. The color is a bit washed out in the shot showing the bottom of the louvers. The areas that appear whitish under the flaking red paint are the light aqua original color. The color in the photo of the bottom front lip is better. The area that was covered by the front trim has the factory orange peel finish and exactly matches other parts from the car.
My next step is to contact Kevin Marti to see if he has an explanation. In the meantime, it would be interesting to see whether other '68s have "Louvered Hoods" listed and what code is in column 51. (FYI I believe "E" in that column indicates wheel lip molding)
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Without disputing your probability that the hood you have is the original, could you also find the date code on the hood? (usually down towards the middle of the hood, near where the turn light wiring exits the hood)
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Without disputing your probability that the hood you have is the original, could you also find the date code on the hood? (usually down towards the middle of the hood, near where the turn light wiring exits the hood)
I don't have access to it right now, I still haven't moved the car here from it's home out-of-state. I'm working off of photos and observations from my last "visitation" :-[ :) I will add that to my work list for the next trip.
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......Looking at mhubert's report and one other I found, it appears that a "3" in column 51 of the order image coincides with "louvered hood" being listed on the report. But my column 51 is blank. The two cars with louvered hoods listed were built in March and April, in Metuchen and Dearborn respectively.
Did I miss something. Where does a NJ example come into the discussion
That suggests a couple of possibilities:
1) Louvered hoods were still standard equipment in February (in San Jose anyway) and no code was required for them to be installed. That contradicts what others have posted about the louvers being optional after the strike was settled in Nov. '67.
Agree that there were allot of cars with the louver hood built - But think your going to need allot more data before you can make this stand the test . Think your jumping the gun - by allot with that assumption
Agree (for your situation) the next step for you is the stamping date of the hood and a good look at the wire feeds
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Did I miss something. Where does a NJ example come into the discussion
I don't have a large supply of Marti reports to look at. I only have three examples that relate - my car (San Jose), mhubert's (Dearborn) and one other (Metuchen). I listed the assembly plants in case louvers were handled differently at different plants. I'm hoping other '68 owners can provide more data. Is there a reason a NJ example shouldn't be included? I'm not trying to be sarcastic - was there something different about louvers for NJ cars that I'm not aware of?
Think your jumping the gun - by allot with that assumption
Not making any assumptions. Just listing the possible explanations I can think of and waiting to see if someone can confirm one of them or offer another explanation.
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I have a lot of 68 Reports.
My Dec San Jose car has a louvered hood and image 51 is blank and it also has wheel moldings
Tell me exactly what you are wanting and will look at my reports
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Not sure if this has any relevance for this discussion, but might help someone in the future ....
My late (7/18/68 Metuchen) FB has the Louvered hood as an option on the Marti, and a "3" under spot 51 in the order image. Also has an "X" on the build sheet under "optional hood"
John
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I have a lot of 68 Reports.
My Dec San Jose car has a louvered hood and image 51 is blank and it also has wheel moldings
Tell me exactly what you are wanting and will look at my reports
I'm looking for a pattern(s) relating the order info to how each car was actually built. For each car, I'm looking at:
1) Assembly plant
2) Actual build date
3) Code in column 51
4) Whether or not "Louvered Hood" and/or "Wheel Lip Molding" is listed on the report
5) To the best extent possible, whether or not the car was built with a louvered hood
6) Any other information that you may feel is relevant. John's mention of his build sheet for example.
Your San Jose car matches my Feb SJ car - built with the louvered hood, but no code in column 51. Perhaps more puzzling that you have the wheel moldings with no code. What is your confidence level that they were factory installed?
In comparison, John's late Metuchen car has a code. Did the date matter? Plant? That's what I'm hoping to determine.
Thanks!!
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high...
original paint car typical San Jose with no build sheet though
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Have allot of Marti's also - unfortunately many are Calif Specials and GT's that can throw a wrench in these sorts of details it seems
Good luck with the search
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My 68 was built 7/18/68 in Metuchen with Louvered hood listed on the Marti report as an option and it did have one. Wheel lip molding was not listed and did not come it.
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My 68 was built 7/18/68 in Metuchen with Louvered hood listed on the Marti report as an option and it did have one. Wheel lip molding was not listed and did not come it.
Thank you Dave. On your Marti report, do you have a "3" at position 51 in the order image?
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unfortunately many are Calif Specials and GT's that can throw a wrench in these sorts of details it seems
Unsure what GTCS or GT have to do with a louvered hood? Never seen flat/louvered hood noted as included/excluded with either option. ???
Have 4 68's;
San Jose Dec '67 build S code convertible - louvered hood, not noted on Marti, nothing in position 51 on Marti
San Jose Dec '67 Build S code GT coupe - louvered hood, not noted on Marti, nothing in position 51 on Marti
San Jose April '68 build C code GTCS - louvered hood, not noted on Marti, nothing in position 51 on Marti
Dearborn May '68 build X code coupe, - flat hood, not noted on Marti, nothing in position 51 on Marti
I "believe" all to be original to the cars, date codes line up... but no "proof" other than observation.
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Unsure what GTCS or GT have to do with a louvered hood? Never seen flat/louvered hood noted as included/excluded with either option. ???
Thanks! Jeff sent me some data too, I'm still processing it. One of the photos showed a window sticker for a GT/CS. It listed "Functional Louvered Hood" as one of the items included at no additional cost under the GT/CS package. I don't know how "official" that is - who wrote the test for the window stickers? Was it Ford corporate, or done at the dealers? I'll post that portion of the photo when I get home this evening.
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.......... I don't know how "official" that is - who wrote the test for the window stickers? Was it Ford corporate, or done at the dealers? ........
Wrote the "Test?
In any case it depends on the year - Sorry can't recall the year the change came about right this moment. It was a federal "law" that standardized the company supply them - kept the dealers from Playing games. Had some Senators name connected to the bill
Thing by 68 the change had been instituted
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do a google search for 'monroney sticker'.
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Wrote the "Test?
That was supposed to read "text" :-[
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Unsure what GTCS or GT have to do with a louvered hood? Never seen flat/louvered hood noted as included/excluded with either option. ???
Here's the reference that was clipped from a reproduction window sticker that was part of an Elite Marti report. "FUNC LOUVERED HOOD" is listed as part of the GT/CS Equipment Package. This is just one piece of evidence; no conclusions yet. I'm not very familiar with Cal Specials - were they all delivered with louvered hoods? Does anyone have other, better official documetation that the louvered hood was standard with the GT/CS package?
Shelbys - I don't know much about those either. My assumption is that Ford would have installed the non-louvered hood, since it wasn't going to end up on the finished product anyway. thecoralsnake.com has some photos (one shown below) of cars awaiting shipment to A.O. Smith, one of which appears to have the plain hood. Is this a correct assumption?
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The louvered hood was part of the GTCS and GT packages so it would not be listed in the option list.
Marty
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The louvered hood was part of the GTCS and GT packages so it would not be listed in the option list.
Marty
Marty, do you know of any Ford documents explaining that definitively? I'm not disputing the statement, as that certainly appears to be the case. It would be nice to cite an official source in my writeup on the '68 louvered hoods. The Shelbys, GTs and GT/CSs will probably be pretty straightforward to pin down, but the base model cars seem to have a lot of opinions floating around as to the standard/optional nature of the hood, and how that may or may not have been related to the '67 strike. Whatever really happened, I'm attempting to document it for posterity, and it would be beneficial to reference source material from Ford, if any is available.
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+1 Marty
The 68.5 R code 428 Cobra Jet GT Mustang would be an exception due to the hood scoop. That would include the GT/CS and HCS as well.
Kerry
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Hi Marty, Just FYI, my 68 GT fastback mentioned above (7/18/68 Metuchen) has the GT Equipment group and the louvered hood mentioned as a separate options on the Marti report ( also has the "Black out hood" , referred as "Two Tone Hood" in the factory sales literature listed as a third option )
The sales brochure doesn't mention the hood as part of the GT option but does list it as a separate option ( to give the Mustang a "unique, continental flair" :) )
I'm wondering if the hood was made optional post strike like the bumper guards, or if every Marti report for a GT lists the hood as a separate option. It may also be a case of charging the customer for something they would have gotten for free, like the "quick steering" option on 69/70 power steering cars.......
Just for the record, my car doesn't have wheel lip moldings, does have the "visibility group" , not sure what that even includes.....
Hope this helps, John
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Hi Marty, Just FYI, my 68 GT fastback mentioned above (7/18/68 Metuchen) has the GT Equipment group and the louvered hood mentioned as a separate options on the Marti report ( also has the "Black out hood" , referred as "Two Tone Hood" in the factory sales literature listed as a third option )
The sales brochure doesn't mention the hood as part of the GT option but does list it as a separate option ( to give the Mustang a "unique, continental flair" :) )
I'm wondering if the hood was made optional post strike like the bumper guards, or if every Marti report for a GT lists the hood as a separate option. It may also be a case of charging the customer for something they would have gotten for free, like the "quick steering" option on 69/70 power steering cars.......
Just for the record, my car doesn't have wheel lip moldings, does have the "visibility group" , not sure what that even includes.....
Hope this helps, John
You didn't mention your car being a GT in your earlier post. That's an interesting development! I will have to check the data I've compiled so far (at work right now), but I believe yours is the only GT in the collection that has the louvered hood listed separately. So far I'm not seeing anything in the data that supports the pre/post strike theory, but I don't have nearly enough data yet to form any conclusions either way.
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Marty, do you know of any Ford documents explaining that definitively? I'm not disputing the statement, as that certainly appears to be the case. It would be nice to cite an official source in my writeup on the '68 louvered hoods. The Shelbys, GTs and GT/CSs will probably be pretty straightforward to pin down, but the base model cars seem to have a lot of opinions floating around as to the standard/optional nature of the hood, and how that may or may not have been related to the '67 strike. Whatever really happened, I'm attempting to document it for posterity, and it would be beneficial to reference source material from Ford, if any is available.
You have the Ford documentation on the window sticker for the GTCS it is listed as part od the package. 70cj428 is correct it is not part of the GT package. It is however part of the sports sprint package.
Here is a Ford sales addendum dated 12-12-67 to make the louvered hood optional.
Hope this helps
Marty
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That's interesting, as it looks like that sales addendum documents all the post strike changes ( I think the strike was settled the end of October, 67) as it includes the bumper guards and the windshield and lower dash padding, along with the louvered hood.
The addendum implies that the louvered hood was standard on something before 12/8, so it's very possible it was standard on the GT before the strike, and optional on the GT after 12/8
JMHO, John
Completely unrelated, but it looks like there were no 4 speed Falcons after 12/8 either......
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Completely unrelated, but it looks like there were no 4 speed Falcons after 12/8 either......
Falcons were on their way out the door when Mustang arrived in '64! Proof that if you wanted a Perfomance Falcon post strike (302 w/4-speed) you would have to instead "Pony-Up!"
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The addendum implies that the louvered hood was standard on something before 12/8, so it's very possible it was standard on the GT before the strike, and optional on the GT after 12/8
I had stated this in the other thread that led to this one. Again, for the 68 model year the turn-signal hood was listed as standard equipment for Mustangs. After the strike it became optional equipment like the bumper guards. The strike ended in November and production started back up close to thanksgiving. I believe the 12/8 coincides close enough to the end of strike date and Ford clearly needed to cut costs in order to maintain some level of profitability for the model year.
I am not saying that ALL pre-strike 68 Mustangs came with the turn signal hood, but that was the intent of Ford.
Regards,
Pete Morgan
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You have the Ford documentation on the window sticker for the GTCS it is listed as part od the package. 70cj428 is correct it is not part of the GT package. It is however part of the sports sprint package.
Here is a Ford sales addendum dated 12-12-67 to make the louvered hood optional.
Hope this helps
Marty
Excellent, thank you Marty! That clearly shows Ford's intent. I'm trying to determine the extent to which they followed though on that, as I have info now on a number of base-model cars that were built after that date with louvered hoods, without it being listed as an option in the order information.
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I might be wrong but I didn't think that the louvered hood was part of the GT package, as was the case in 1967.
Brad
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It wasn't part of the GT package in 67 it was part of the exterior decor option
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Most of my reports are R codes but here are some from past and current non R code 68's
01J built GT no call out but louvered hood present
19M built GT no call out but louvered hood present
22M built GT no call out but louvered hood present
12C built GT called out
6U built GT no call out but louvered hood present
Just Google 1968 Mustang Marti Report and select images along with Ebay current and completed auctions. I have more reports but these were in the computer so will look at my folders
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Most of my reports are R codes but here are some from past and current non R code 68's
01J built GT no call out but louvered hood present
19M built GT no call out but louvered hood present
22M built GT no call out but louvered hood present
12C built GT called out
6U built GT no call out but louvered hood present
Just Google 1968 Mustang Marti Report and select images along with Ebay current and completed auctions. I have more reports but these were in the computer so will look at my folders
Awesome, thank you! I've been finding a few on Google but I didn't think to check ebay