ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: 1965GTFB on August 18, 2015, 03:08:30 PM
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Would all 67s have had under dash courtesy lights on the DS and PS? I have the leads in the harness but after the car being apart and almost all back together have not come across the lights in the parts boxes. So either I'm a doof and misplaced a box or it didn't have them. Were they an option? I have a 999 report if that helps, it is a console car, std interior. Car is a FB.
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only stock on convertibles, believe it is optional on Coupes, not sure about fasbacks, seems like they should be standard, but I believe I've seen them w/o the lights
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I think (means not sure) that they were not standard in the FB. Convertibles standard makes sense since there is no dome light. For coupe and FB I think they came either with interior décor (which mine has), or possibly with a "light group" option. I don't recall seeing a lot of information about the light group, but seem to recall some discussion that it includes these lights. Additional clarifications from those in the know would be great.
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... For coupe and FB I think they came either with interior décor (which mine has), or possibly with a "light group" option. I don't recall seeing a lot of information about the light group, but seem to recall some discussion that it includes these lights. Additional clarifications from those in the know would be great.
I can say that my Coupe, with the interior décor group DID NOT come with these underdash lights and yet was rather smartly optioned otherwise.
Personally, I have and would add these to any of the body styles that didn't come originally with them since the area is very dark at night w/o them. (oh NO! That's not Concours! :o sorry, my-bad ;D)
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I looked in the 67 showroom option book and see a "courtesy light group" option that includes "under hood, trunk, glove box, glove box lock, light under dash on hardtops".
Taking that along with the statement that your interior décor hardtop does not have them, along with my interior décor fastback that does (but with no courtesy light group option), it looks like a reasonable conclusion that convertibles and fastbacks got the under dash lights as standard, but the hardtop did not.
But we are discussing 67, so before the ink was dry on the showroom option book things might have changed 8)
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My 67 vert has both sides (as does my 68 vert.) Be aware that they are different. IIRC the drivers side is shorter and does not extend under the dash as far.
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My 11/66 built 67' coupe only has the courtesy light in the center of the headliner. I never had any lights under the dash like the 64-66 models. I can understand the standardized under dash lights on convertibles but now I am questoning if the main harness has any hook ups for these lights under my dash.. My car was not highly optioned and was pretty plain..
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To my knowledge, 67-68 fastbacks did not have a dome light (either standard or as an option). The overhead console option had the map lights. The under dash lights and the rear quarter courtesy lights were standard for fastbacks.
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The socket/bracket used on the passenger's side is longer than the driver's side, plus the driver's side socket/bracket is the same as 64-66. My notes include that the screw, 374121-S2, is not listed in the AMK Guide. However, in 68 (and 69) they used 55927-S36, 8-18X1/2 pan head screw which may be what you should consider. The RH socket/bracket does not show hardware in either 67 or 68, but may use the RH screw for the glove box hinge to lower dash.
Jim
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The socket/bracket used on the passenger's side is longer than the driver's side, plus the driver's side socket/bracket is the same as 64-66. My notes include that the screw, 374121-S2, is not listed in the AMK Guide. However, in 68 (and 69) they used 55927-S36, 8-18X1/2 pan head screw which may be what you should consider. The RH socket/bracket does not show hardware in either 67 or 68, but may use the RH screw for the glove box hinge to lower dash.
Jim
I'd like to double check this, SelectAire cars may be the same length (at least I have seen several that were)
In the morning I'll try and do a bit of research.
Richard
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Provisions for the under-the-dash courtesy lights are standard in all 67 and 68 underdash harnesses. Each side has a female bullet with two black/blue wires specifically for this purpose.
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Regarding the passenger side courtesy light bracket:
According to my version of the 1967 Electrical Assembly Manual, just the long bracket was used. Likely turned to the side a bit to miss the air conditioning box when equipped.
My version of the 1968 Electrical Assembly Manual, indicates that the long bracket was used 'without A/C'.
My research shows the driver side or 'short bracket' under dash courtesy light bracket to have a Ford part number of C0AZ-13763-A. Long bracket on the passenger side has a C7ZB-13763-A Ford part number.
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I have and have had other 67's that have two shorties. They were all non AC.
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Let me clarify my comment, the Mustang I'm referring to was a May 67 build, San Jose Fastback, no A/C, console, courtesy group, 4sp.
Jim
Make that "convenience" group.
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I always thought they were missing or had been taken off by a previous owner on my Metuchen '67 coupe. It was an interior decor car, and had the lights in the door as well as the light in the storage compartment in the console (which I thought was odd--why would you want that lighting up along with the courtesy lights)? I added the underdash lights to my car. After having a bunch of '65-66 cars, it didn't seem right to not have light in that area, regardless of how it was originally built.
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I think (means not sure) that they were not standard in the FB. Convertibles standard makes sense since there is no dome light. For coupe and FB I think they came either with interior décor (which mine has), or possibly with a "light group" option. I don't recall seeing a lot of information about the light group, but seem to recall some discussion that it includes these lights. Additional clarifications from those in the know would be great.
I just reinstalled my overhead console....the map lights can only be operated on and off when either the doors are open or the light switch is rotated to turn on the interior lights...is that correct operation?
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I just reinstalled my overhead console....the map lights can only be operated on and off when either the doors are open or the light switch is rotated to turn on the interior lights...is that correct operation?
Not by my experience. Not also, going by color code of the wiring harneses.
This connection to the incorrect source SHOULD be inside the A-pillar at the door switch. You may need to pull the kick panel out to sort things out but the green/yelow wire that feeds the console must be incorrectly connected to the black/blue wire of the main underdash harness at or near the passengers door switch. The green/yellow wire (console feed wire/harness) should have a male bullet jumper lead at that end and the male bullet jumper plugs into the door switch while the other female bullet connector plugs into the main underdash harness's green/yellow wire (NOT into the blue/black wire of the main harness)
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I'd like to double check this, SelectAire cars may be the same length (at least I have seen several that were)
In the morning I'll try and do a bit of research.I found a trunk light with the FOMOCO logo, but the part number indicates it was for a 68. Do you think the wiring application would be the same and would work on my 67?. It is marked as for a 67-68 fastback.
Richard
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Obviously it is for a 68, but functionally and appearance are near identicle
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Just from experience, it sounds like the Map light on the console is plugged into the Dome light connector. Seen it done a few times when an overhead was added to a car that didn't originally have an overhead console.
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Just to throw another log on the fire: I have a Dec 66 built '67 500. It has the short courtesy lamp on the driver's side of the dash and the long on the passengers. As for wiring, the dash harness has provisions for both as well as the glove box lamp assembly.
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I'd like to double check this, SelectAire cars may be the same length (at least I have seen several that were)
In the morning I'll try and do a bit of research.
Richard
Regarding the passenger side courtesy light bracket:
According to my version of the 1967 Electrical Assembly Manual, just the long bracket was used. Likely turned to the side a bit to miss the air conditioning box when equipped.
My version of the 1968 Electrical Assembly Manual, indicates that the long bracket was used 'without A/C'.
My research shows the driver side or 'short bracket' under dash courtesy light bracket to have a Ford part number of C0AZ-13763-A. Long bracket on the passenger side has a C7ZB-13763-A Ford part number.
Something on the unfinished list of things to get back to:
I've been working on my Select-Aire system the last few weeks & Saturday, I bumped into the evidence that seems to suggest for at least the 1967 Mustang, that Ford intended for the Select-Aire cars to use a "Shorty" courtesy lamp bracket on the right hand side. (same as left side underdash courtesy lamp). See 1967 Mustang electrical assembly manual page 89, (E7-8655-8), bottom left of the page. (same on page 80 for the 6-cylinder cars) The assembly manual cites item #24 as a "270453 BRACKET COURTESY LAMP"
I surely cannot speak to research that suggests otherwise. As mentioned earlier, some of these "differences found" can have a lot to do with previous owners adding the option (it is very easy and very desirable).
This may not help anyone determine what they have found on their example but hopefully it should show what Ford likely intended to be installed. With all research I have done to date, it looks like Ford intended the longer RH bracket to be on all fastbacks & convertbles WITHOUT Select-Aire and the shorter version used on all fastbacks & convertibles WITH Select-Aire. As far as Coupes are concerned, it seems that Ford likely intended these underdash lights as an add-on with the "Courtesy Light Group" option. The Courtesy Light Group would have included an underhood light, trunk light & glove box light AND underdash lights on ALL models. (as noted here: https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/2013/11/18/1967_Mustang_Specs.pdf )
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Our original SJ 11-04-66 connvertible with AC has the short version.
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So this post touched on 2 things i`m dealing with on my wife`s 67 Coupe. Having a 66 for as long as I have I was surprised as heck to NOT find under dash lights on her car so I`m adding them.She had already had an overhead console added and I have determined that they used the stock wiring to power the map lights instead of the proper o/h console wire harness,which brings me to the point---The wire comes down from the roof on the drivers side and is connected/part of the wiring harness as it goes forward to the a pillar---will there be a plug at the a pillar area that I can swap so the map lights are powered all the time (green/yellow) ?
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There's a two wire female bullet for the glove box, but it's located up from the door jamb a fair ways (18"?) that you could use.
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...I have determined that they used the stock (dome light) wiring to power the map lights instead of the proper o/h console wire harness,which brings me to the point---The wire comes down from the roof on the drivers side and is connected/part of the wiring harness as it goes forward to the a pillar---will there be a plug at the a pillar area that I can swap so the map lights are powered all the time (green/yellow) ?
Good question. The CORRECT location for an overhead console map light would have been a green/yellow wire run down the passengers rocker panel and would have been connected at the dome light switch on the passengers side to that very green/yellow you mentioned (a few inches away from the right side door jam switch for the dome light).
I cannot verify what the "stock style COUPE" uses to supply the original dome light. (latest EDIT: Read next reply to this thread) Keep in mind that the headlight switch ALSO powered the roof mounted dome light circuit AND other lamps connected to the Black/Blue circuit 53 & 53A. You should be able to locate a basic wiring diagram for the dome lights in the back of an Osborne Electrical Assembly Manual. The wiring diagram may help you a lot if you can read them. ALSO, to keep from having any hazzards, be sure to follow the suggestion of power-down the circuit you are working on (remove fuse and/or disconnect the battery)
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I've since my last reply to this thread, pulled out the electrical diagram. I think what you ask is rather difficult to explain in a written dialog but could be done. The biggest issue you have is how all of the switches in the basic overhead dome light contribute to the basic dome light function. That being said to further explain that there is only one way to isolate and use the wire you wish to utilize. That connection is in the 3-cavity connector of the tailight wiring harness connector (circuit 53E of the wiring diagram). The problem then continues if a descision to splice into that circuit were made...Where now would you go to get the 12V power?
Summary: Purchase a reproduction wire and thread it into the car some way. Though it was originally connected to the RH door jam switch in the A-Pillar, you could choose to connect it to the LH side door jam switch too. The reproduction (or an original) overhead console green/yellow wire has a jumper-wire built into it, intended (as indicated in the manual) to tie into the circuit 54C (green/yellow at RH dome light switch) without leaving another item disconnected.
Just an idea (since your intentions aren't along the Concours line of thinking anyways) To avoid trying to thread a wire under the headliner (might not be practical) connect the reproduction (or original if you found one) to the bullet connector of the dome light feed wire. You should be able to find that connector behind the LH 1/4 trim panel. Then thread the new wire up towards the driverd door switch. (the new wire will be way too long now) Shorten the wire as needed (splice or loop up extra length).
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Yes on further thought (read-- slept on it) running an extra wire down the lh side might be quickest/easiest way. I had torn apart both 1/4 trim panels and that is how I know what they did.
I might just leave this project for later now that I have the under dash lights working and get it all buttoned back up so we can use it.
And while I know it is not strictly concours I do try to make sure stuff is not bojanged together.
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Interesting.
I will have cad plating ability within the week and dug out my underdash lights so I could prepare the brackets.
The one of the left is driver's (I assume) and the bent one on the right is the pax side.
I think the long one is preferred to prevent the bend so the short one clears the dash.
I gather the hole for the pax side is further aft which requires a bend?
Wondering if I should source the long one ...
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This is my experience of over 30 years of restoring these cars but am open to correction! Plus we all know how for "always stuck by the book". All 67 and 68 fastbacks and convertibles had under dash courtesy lights. 67 and 68 Coupes only had the lights if equipped with the courtesy group option. All LH (drivers side) had the short retainer. The RH (passenger side) used the long style retainer on cars without A/C and the short one when equipped with factory Selectaire A/C. 68 becomes a bit hazy as my 68 Deluxe interior coupe without A/C had the short one on the passenger side for some reason. The plant may have run out of the long ones since it was a "Friday" car. My 68 GT fastback has the short style. Interesting that the 67 electrical assembly manual list the long style on page E7-8145-3 mounted with the far right glove box hinge mounting hardware but says nothing about A/C. On page E7-8650-6 in the lower LH corner shows the short style "A/C only" mounted to a small hole in the dash just to the right of the hinge hardware. This style was always mounted with a #10 5/16 hex head screw in my experience. Hope this helps! Again just my experience. Paul
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how does socket mount to bracket? Just pushed trough?
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Yes.
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how does socket mount to bracket? Just pushed trough?
Without a bulb installed. Be advised that the latest offering of 631 bulbs, which is what is used, have a flare at the upper end of the metal where it meets the glass and will not fit.
Jim
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how does socket mount to bracket? Just pushed trough?
The brass socket is pressed into the plated holder/frame.
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Jeff,ossbill,jwc66k THAN YOU,
nOW TO GET ONE OF MY GRANDSON'S to crawl under dash and look for plug end.
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Can anyone add pictures of the installed lamps ? Both LH and RH if you could.
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Can anyone add pictures of the installed lamps ? Both LH and RH if you could.
Did you see this related tread?
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=8143.msg46954#msg46954 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=8143.msg46954#msg46954)
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I have now ,Thanks .
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Here are pictures from my 67, January 31, Dearborn Convertible. Excuse the first out of focus picture, but that is all I have. It is the Driver's side, and is the "short body light. The third picture is the Passenger side, and is the "long" body light. IIRC, if the car had Factory A/C, a short bodied one would have been used on the Passenger side.
I have also attached a copy from the 1967 Electrical Assembly Manual.
Bob
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Thanks