ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Misc Items => Topic started by: Twilight65 on February 21, 2010, 05:56:39 PM
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I getting ready to restore my original power top fuse block which mounts next to the starter solenoid. Originally it had paper crimped under the tabs of the metal support pieces (Picture #1) at each end of the block. The remaining paper is missing and I've seen it all kind of different ways. I show three other pictures of ways I've seen it (see below). Any ideas which is correct? Anyone have a picture of an original with the paper still intact?
Thanks,
Dave
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/Fuseblock.jpg)
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OK I'm bumping this back up. Surely someone has an opinion or has seen an original. Just looking to get my restored part back to concours.
Thanks,
Dave
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Dave:
I was asking this exact same question a few months ago on another forum before I found this one.
When I saw the FORD drawing... that was the definitive answer for me.
Just keep in mind, it is a "cartoon" so don't take the roundness of the humps as gospel. I'm sure the Virginia Mustang part can be rolled a little to look more like the FORD drawing.
All this is MY OPINION. I'm not a judge.
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Thanks for your input Bryan. I assembled all the original re-plated parts and the new board and paper today. I used the Ford Illustration as a guide. I think its looks pretty good. In the picture below I haven't re-crimped the edges yet just in case someone else chimes in the next day or so. The bolts on the ends are just holding everything together for now. I've looked myself at a lot of 66 convertibles but most don't even have the block anymore, they've just connect the wires together.
Dave
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/rebuiltfuseblock.jpg)
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Dave. I'm curious about your original block. I looks like the board was a different material than what we have now. Was the board material really a fiberglass material (as we can buy now) or was it a black bakelite type material? Studying the Osborn Ford books, and I'm not questioning what was on your car, it shows the screws as 42381-S2. These screws are the #10-16 hex washer head which are 3/4" long. The nut and lock washer on the center stud are shown as being finished as S36 (zinc plate plus chromate). My July 66 Metuchen car had these 'D' marked hex head screws holding mine down, but the board was replaced with today's after market version when I bought it. I hope someone can shed some light on what an original C5TB-14448-B Junction block looks like! Jim
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JimL,
If I am not mistaken, the original ones were of a reddish-brown material called phenolic.
HIGH PRESSURE LAMINATED PHENOLIC
Commonly called “Micarta”, a trademark of Westinghouse. Laminated sheets, tube and rods are produced in many grades, sizes and colors. These laminates combine a base material- canvas, linen, paper, glass cloth or Nylon cloth, with a resin-phenolic, melamine, epoxy or silicone, under high heat and pressure to produce a new material with specific characteristics. These characteristics vary with the grade and its use.
GRADE L (Linen Base)
PHENOLIC SHEET
Used for precision machining and high strength applications.
Sheet Size: 36" x 48".
Sold in 6" x 6", 6" x 12", 12" x 12", etc. pieces only.
Electrical-Grade Fiberglass (GPO3)
Finish
Color: Opaque red
Temperature Range: 0° to 284° F
Tensile Strength: Excellent
Impact Strength: Excellent
Good electrical insulator
Use indoors
Machine with carbide tooling
Hardness: Barcol 50
Fiberglass-reinforced polyester combines electrical insulation properties with high strength, making it an excellent choice for electrical applications. Also known as polyester-grade industrial laminate, it is sometimes considered part of the phenolic/Garolite family. Meets UL 94V0.
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Jim & Bryan,
The original material was some type of electrical grade bakelite or micarta. I have been building transformers for about 30 years and we use all kinds of these materials. The original block was discolored (black) but under the metal parts it was brown. So I decided the closest thing to it that I've had experience with was the micarta because it has the glass woven fibers in it as I could see in the original piece. I believe these to be the original mounting screws (#8 -15 x 5/8” pan head with S2 finish), as I purchased the car from a person who had bought it from the original owner. Who let it sit for a few months before I purchased it. The nut and lockwasher do show remains of a silver finish. I was also hoping someone may have more information or an original photo with the kraft paper which was crimped/pressed in as shown with mine. The metal parts did have the part number you mentioned stamped into the brackets (picture below). Thanks for your input.
Dave
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/SDC10063.jpg)
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Now we're getting somewhere! Awesome engineering specs and descriptions! Anyone want to discuss the attaching screws? Phillips head or hex head? What assembly plant did they come from?
Final question: Does 'Micarta' look like the aftermarket boards or not really?
Good discussion guys...jim
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Jim,
There are so many grades of micarta. The after market ones I've seen do look like some types of micarta I've seen. I chose a type that when cut had a darker edge (just because I liked it better). Some when cut have a light or white edge. Of course my car is a May Dearborn.
Dave
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Jim & Dave,
I have a picture of a 67 NOS junction block on my home computer. I will try to post it this weekend.
A few points from my observations...
The engineering numbers & fomoco logo are stamped on the two metal parts like in the picture posted (reproductions do not have this).
The junction block was attached to the inner fender panel with hex head machine screws. I have never seen an original attached with phillips head screws.
The thin cardboard insulator was crimped with the micarta type base to the two metal ends. This insulator does not have soft bends like in pictures 1 & 2 of your one post or like the picture of the reproduction you posted later. The bends are sharp and crisp. Also, the insulator is much taller than the pictures. The purpose of the insulator was to prevent the accidental grounding of the two wires.
Regards,
Pete Morgan
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Pete, that would be great if you could post a picture. This is just what I've been looking for.Thanks for all your information so far.
Dave
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Pete, Thanks and we'll be waiting on your pictures. My car was a late 66 so maybe that's why I had the hex head screws...? Jim
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First time posting a picture. It is slightly blurry, but I think it covers the points well. I noticed that the folds are not as crisp as I remembered, but more crisp than the picture already posted.
(http://www.early-mustang.com/charles/petes_box/misc/power_top_junction_block.jpg)
Regards,
Pete Morgan
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Pete,
Thanks for the picture, you did good. Now I can finish mine. Looks like also there were some notch's on the micarta board in the middle. My original was missing part of the board in the middle. I thought it had just fell a part over time. Now I see it was supposed to be that way.
Again Thanks,
Dave
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I completed rebuilding my original junction block today. Many thanks to everyone for there input, especially Pete with his photo of a NOS block. I posted before and after photo's. I will also post dimensional sketches for those that will also rebuild theirs.
Dave
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/DavesOriginalJunctionBlock.jpg)(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/DavesrebuiltJunctionBlock.jpg)
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Dave,
Looks great! I'll probably do mine this weekend. Thanks again Pete. Jim
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I want to follow Twilight's lead and do mine!
There's just 1 prob. I only have half of mine. I need 1 more of the metal brackets ith the P/N on it. Does anyone have one? PM me please.
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Here's what's left of mine. Are these the correct mounting screws? I'm pretty sure they are.
Again does anyone have another "Fomoco" metal piece so I can refurb mine?
(http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad350/bryancobb/Convertible%20top/DSCN0993.jpg)
(http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad350/bryancobb/Convertible%20top/DSCN0997.jpg)
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I kept the remains of my 67, but I don't have a clue where the baggy with the two ends might be. :-[
As for your attaching screws, I seriously doubt they are original for this key reason: The two screws you show are pozi-drive phillips and Hex. There is no reason for Ford to use such a screw on the assembly line. The assembly line tools were (and are) very specific for a given assembly mode. All of the original ones I have ever seen are hex screws and are phosphate and oil finished.
Regards,
Pete Morgan
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Thanks Pete
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As for your attaching screws, I seriously doubt they are original for this key reason: The two screws you show are pozi-drive phillips and Hex. There is no reason for Ford to use such a screw on the assembly line. The assembly line tools were (and are) very specific for a given assembly mode. All of the original ones I have ever seen are hex screws and are phosphate and oil finished.
Regards,
Pete Morgan
+1 Never seen that type of screw used and if you look at the condition of the block vs the screws, they aren't even remotely weathered the same
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You guys are right that those type screws don't make sense. About their condition...before I spent several minutes with them on the brass brush wheel on the bench grinder, they looked exactly like the rest of the fuse block. They are stainless, I guess, to clean up that well.
BC
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Question for you guys who disassembled/plated/reassembled one of these...
Does the square part come off of the center stud or is it welded on?
I have my old one out of the phenolic but after I have it plated, I don't see how to install it.
I'm thinking about ordering a repro and putting my newly plated FOMOCO clips onto it. Is that the best option for concourse?
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Bryan,
On mine the small carriage bolt is inserted through the phenolic board then the square washer placed over the square part of the bolt from the top. Then it was pressed to keep it on. I filed the four corners where it was pressed and removed the square washer. Then cleaned and re plated everything, made a new board and reassembled. I'm getting ready to send some parts for plating in about a week. I have extra material I purchased to fix mine. If you want I could help you with it. Let me know.
Dave
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Thanks Dave,
Mine looked like it was 1 piece but the square piece came off when I pushed on the bolt. After looking closer, my bolt is a little too pitted to plate.
I ordered a repro to see if it looks better for me to put my Fomoco end clips on a repro. My clips are in great shape.
Thanks for the offer. You are the best!
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My bolt was pretty pitted also. I bead blasted mine then I put it in a drill and spun it while sanding with 400 grit sand paper until I got it looking real good (just some very Minor pits) before I plated. I believe with the re-pro you will just get standard phillips head bolt. Let me know if I can do anything. Just wanting to help the hobby out.
Dave