ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Suspension => Topic started by: Bongoman on April 20, 2010, 04:20:02 AM
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Question regarding the correct color of my power steering pump.
The MCA 1969-1970 rules indicate at page 7, Section 4, ENGINE, subsection R, Power Steering: Semi-Gloss Black Components. . . "Pump (may be all black or all teal blue)."
I am not certain if my pump is a TRW (which would be black) or a Ford Thompson because any tag identifyling its manufacturer seems to be long gone. I am assuming it was originally blue because it is blue now.
My question is whether the pump should be painted Ford corporate blue (like all the other blue underhood components) or a teal color as indicated in the MCA rules?
Thanks for any insights you can offer.
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It is a teal color. The spray can that NPD sells now is real nice. I worked with them about 2 years ago matching to original samples and a PPG formula I had made and it look real good.
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................. My question is whether the pump should be painted Ford corporate blue (like all the other blue underhood components) or a teal color as indicated in the MCA rules?
You must have missed this one when you were reading through the FAQ'a ;)
Question 7 - I've seen power steering pumps (66-73) painted semi-gloss black or a teal blue. Which is correct for my car?
During the production of the classic Mustang production years Ford used/installed power steering pumps made by one of two suppliers. Multiple suppliers were a common practice for Ford during this period. The following chart will allow you to determine what pump your car has and what the original color was.
Supplier Identification Pump Color
TRW On tag 2nd digit in bottom line Black
Ford Thompson On tag in center line Teal/Blue
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Thanks Jeff. I read the FAQ but I didn't think it answered my particular question. My question relates to what color blue should be used on a non-black power steering pump.
The MCA rules say "teal blue" and your FAQ says "teal/blue". I read your teal/blue to mean teal OR Ford Corporate Blue. (But it could also mean a teal shade of blue which is what the SCA rules seem to indicate.)
Still not sure if the pump should be teal or Ford Corporate Blue.
Thanks for any clarity you can offer.
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Sorry
Its referred to by many as Teal blue
It was a metallic shinny dark blue sometimes with a green tint
Currently many are using DAR 12366 or DAU 4086 - Dark Poly Sapphire Blue mixed at their local paint shop. And these forumlas really depend on what is legal to purchase and use in your region
If your going to use a spray gun or using NPD's current rattle can
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Jeff, no need to apologize. You have your hands full with all these questions.
Thanks for the clarification. Not sure if I will go the spray gun route or rattle can for the teal but now I know what I need either way.
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Still not sure if the pump should be teal or Ford Corporate Blue.
Thanks for any clarity you can offer.
Maybe read the first post under your original? ;)
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Thanks Tim. Sometimes people have to tell me things twice before it sinks in. :o
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Is the 1966 interior color called "13025 LIGHT TURQUOIS POLY." a color close color to what a Teal power steering pump needs to be?
I'm gonna get a half-pint of Concept to paint mine. If not, the only option is to get a rattle can of the color from NPD, and do a PPG spray-out card.
Bryan
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Thanks folks, but nevermind.
I just found the early 2008 thread on another forum where it was
nailed down by people in-the-know to be ... PPG DAR 12366 Chesapeake Blue Metallic
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Is the 1966 interior color called "13025 LIGHT TURQUOIS POLY." a color close color to what a Teal power steering pump needs to be?
IMHO - nope
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I just wanted to add to this thread for future search reference regarding the paint color of the Ford 'teal' pumps. Prior to finding the ppg code Jeff provided I too was searching for the correct color to spray several pumps for my 69 cars. If PPG is not available where you are (or you dont want to fork out the extra $$ for ppg) here are a few cross reference codes that are the same as PPG DAR 12366:
1. 1961 Ford Fairlane/Galaxie Chesapeak Blue - code H, Ford code M1367
2. Dupont 4157, 202-94879, 181-94879
3. Acme Rogers 8941
4. Omni AU (this is what I went with) Brand code 12366, OEM code H,M30J1367, color name: Express Blue Poly
I wanted to cross it to a Martin Senour as its a decent paint and affordable...but couldn't. Omni is a good affordable paint and should hold up well. Mixing is 4:1:1. I hope this helps...
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I just wanted to add to this thread for future search reference regarding the paint color of the Ford 'teal' pumps. ................
Thanks for the extra effort and posting. Will work the info back into the FAQs for everyone that may search in the future.
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Hi Guys!
My first post on this great forum!
Brief introduction of myself:
my name is Michael. I live in Austria, am married an have two incredible boys (9 and 7 yo). I'm work in the IT department of an hospital, so this doesn't recommend me as the best classic car technician ;)
As of March 2015 I'm the proud owner of a 1968 Mustang Coupe. The car has the 289 engine with 2V Carb. Regarding my Marti Report, the car was built Dec. 1st 1967 in San Jose and delivered to Arizona (Homes Tuttle). The Paint (what's left over respectively shining through the patina ;)) is Gulfstream Aqua ;D Options narrow down to A/C and Power steering.
The car is in preety good shape, no rust and overall is left in a quite original condition.
I got the car from a german guy who bought it last year in Montana.
In Austria there are pretty strict restrictions regarding old cars, so I drive the car only between April and October. In the meantime it sits in a dry garage and gets improvements... and love ;)
That's how I came here...
Right now I'm rebuilding the Power Steering Pump. The FAQ were realy helpful, but my Pump is not ;)
The pump is black, the ID tag reads (see attached pic):
HBA BF
I F
7 B 7
...so I suppose it's a Ford Thomson Pump and should be Teal.
BUT: the pump doesn't look like it's been oversprayed in the past, besides: no paint underneath the ID tag.
As I want to leave the car as original as possible, I would appreciate it very much, if someone could enlighten me and tell which color the pump should have.
Thanks a lot and take care!
Cheers,
Michael
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Michael,
Welcome to the forum. I'll let those familiar with 68 cars to answer your question. Remember, you got 48 years of unknowns to contend with so there's no telling what has been done or why.
Jim
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The February 1967 date on the pump doesn't fit with a December 67 build date for the car...
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Hi Guys!
My first post on this great forum!
Brief introduction of myself:
my name is Michael. I live in Austria, am married an have two incredible boys (9 and 7 yo). I'm work in the IT department of an hospital, so this doesn't recommend me as the best classic car technician ;)
As of March 2015 I'm the proud owner of a 1968 Mustang Coupe. The car has the 289 engine with 2V Carb. Regarding my Marti Report, the car was built Dec. 1st 1967 in San Jose and delivered to Arizona (Homes Tuttle). The Paint (what's left over respectively shining through the patina ;)) is Gulfstream Aqua ;D Options narrow down to A/C and Power steering.
The car is in preety good shape, no rust and overall is left in a quite original condition.
I got the car from a german guy who bought it last year in Montana.
In Austria there are pretty strict restrictions regarding old cars, so I drive the car only between April and October. In the meantime it sits in a dry garage and gets improvements... and love ;)
That's how I came here...
Right now I'm rebuilding the Power Steering Pump. The FAQ were realy helpful, but my Pump is not ;)
The pump is black, the ID tag reads (see attached pic):
HBA BF
I F
7 B 7
...so I suppose it's a Ford Thomson Pump and should be Teal.
BUT: the pump doesn't look like it's been oversprayed in the past, besides: no paint underneath the ID tag.
As I want to leave the car as original as possible, I would appreciate it very much, if someone could enlighten me and tell which color the pump should have.
Thanks a lot and take care!
Cheers,
Michael
Michael, first welcome. The Ford Thompson pumps were painted the bluish teal batch paint (variations) typically as previously posted. My guess is that the pump had been previously rebuilt stripped of paint and repainted black or reservoir can switched during rebuild. Ether scenario are way more likely then it being a out of the ordinary color compared to all of the others. In any event the pump tag is so obscured from view when installed that you most likely couldn't tell who and when it was built if you tried .
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Bottom line - yes wrong color for the pump (way easier to just spray it black) and from another time period. Didn't get the time to double check of the can or tag is even correct for the application :(
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Thanks a lot for your fast feedback!
Regarding this site http://www.stangerssite.com/FP_IDchart.html (http://www.stangerssite.com/FP_IDchart.html), I suppose, that the pump is correct for 67/68, but the build code is wrong for my Dec. 67 car... this, I can live with, as it's pretty difficult to get original parts in Europe.
I'll try to get the pump sand blasted and will paint it Teal.
Thanks again!
Cheers,
Michael
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Needing clarification here......I know the pump housing is teal.....but what about the front of the pump where the pulley shaft comes out? Is that also teal or is it black. From my old pictures, I know my pump is teal but I can't tell what color the front is.
Thanks,
Dave
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Needing clarification here......I know the pump housing is teal.....but what about the front of the pump where the pulley shaft comes out? Is that also teal or is it black. From my old pictures, I know my pump is teal but I can't tell what color the front is.
Thanks,
Dave
The pump shaft is not painted. If it was there would be a issue in pressing the pulley on.
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The pump shaft is not painted. If it was there would be a issue in pressing the pulley on.
Hi Bob,
Re-read.....not the pump shaft....but rather the front of the pump where the pump shaft is located. I did a little cleaning and it looks like there are spots of teal here and there on the front.
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Hi Bob,
Re-read.....not the pump shaft....but rather the front of the pump where the pump shaft is located. I did a little cleaning and it looks like there are spots of teal here and there on the front.
Front of pump is painted as the rest of the housing. Black for TRW and the teal blue for Ford Thompson.
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For Jeff......pump markings. Not sure if this was plant specific:
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For Jeff......pump markings. Not sure if this was plant specific:
Interesting - never heard nor seen of that one before. Wonder if its a rebuilders marking. Will be on the look out for more examples to try and figure out if its factory
Thanks again
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Very doubtful about it being rebuilt. It came off a '69 Mach 1 that was totaled in '73 with 35k miles on it.
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Raven,
Do you have the build plant and the engine code for the Mach 1?
Just Curious,
SC Jeff (I'll use SC to avoid confusion with other Jeff, my last name starts with "S" also, so Jeff S wouldn't work..))
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Hi Jeff....the car was a Q code car. I'm not sure what plant though. It was dark marroon ( I have the original hood with the original flat black). Trying to figure out where I might find the vin (or other indicators of original plant) since all I have is everything that could have been unbolted from the unibody chassis.
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...................since all I have is everything that could have been unbolted from the unibody chassis.
Might want to check for a buck tag in the pile. Lacking that the finish on the shock tower supports, shock/coil spring, hood latch support ......... would lead clues and narrow it down ;)
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I think that p/s pump has been rebuilt & that's a reman ink stamp id as I have never seen that stamp on a factory pump. Blow up the photo & look at the pump filler neck tube &you can see teal paint under where the black paint has peeled off in spots.
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Here is another view of the housing.
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A friend used Mustang POWER STEERING PUMP PAINT ENAMEL EXACT: part number AP-PSPE from NPD on 65 power steering pump and was written up for wrong color. This paint is a dark turquoise / purple. I assume it was a slop mix each day. Anyway was told it is too dark and told to go look at another car. Sure enough the color on the other car was much lighter. Just like early Pontiac engine paint. Anyway just want to ask is the NPD Mustang POWER STEERING PUMP PAINT ENAMEL EXACT MATCH part number AP-PSPE correct or not?
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If it hasn't changed in the last few years I've been happy and successful with it. Might want to take a couple of shots (back ground and lightly will really effect a digital camera and post them but I think we've posted a fair number of examples of originals in the past for you to compare them to. IF I recall the lighter color your referring to I've never seen an original that color before used on a "teal" PS pump
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Just trying to confirm the correct finish for the Power Steering Pump body/core. Most of the ones I have seen have either been painted black or cast blast, but I am assuming that it should be a bare metal finish. Does anyone actually use cast blast for concours and is it acceptable. I know it is in some circles, not sure in Mustang world. Normally I try to always follow factory standard wherever possible.
I am referring to the outside part that is visible from the front.
Thanks
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Just trying to confirm the correct finish for the Power Steering Pump body/core. Most of the ones I have seen have either been painted black or cast blast, but I am assuming that it should be a bare metal finish. Does anyone actually use cast blast for concours and is it acceptable. I know it is in some circles, not sure in Mustang world. Normally I try to always follow factory standard wherever possible.
I am referring to the outside part that is visible from the front.
Thanks
It is all painted at the same time so it would be the same painted color as the reservoir . The core is a specific design depending on if Ford Thompson or TRW . The MFG determines what color it was from the particular factory.
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It is all painted at the same time so it would be the same painted color as the reservoir . The core is a specific design depending on if Ford Thompson or TRW . The MFG determines what color it was from the particular factory.
Thanks Bob. So for my car does that mean that the front showing/core would be painted teal color. I am not sure which manufacturer I have, but I can look for a logo. Should I assume that San Jose could have used either unit. So what finish would Ford Thomson use and what color would TRW use
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Thanks Bob. So for my car does that mean that the front showing/core would be painted teal color. I am not sure which manufacturer I have, but I can look for a logo. Should I assume that San Jose could have used either unit. So what finish would Ford Thomson use and what color would TRW use
Yes SJ could have ether . Ford Thompson was the teal and TRW black. The front of the pump should be the same as what the tag indicates on the back . They can get mixed up at rebuilders TRW tag and Ford Thompson pump core. The Ford Thompson core with have a Ford trademark and a C8 engineering number (in the case of a 68-70 unit) The TRW does not have a Ford trademark or a engineering number typically . It will most often have a W cast in the front.
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Yes SJ could have ether . Ford Thompson was the teal and TRW black. The front of the pump should be the same as what the tag indicates on the back . They can get mixed up at rebuilders TRW tag and Ford Thompson pump core. The Ford Thompson core with have a Ford trademark and a C8 engineering number (in the case of a 68-70 unit) The TRW does not have a Ford trademark or a engineering number typically . It will most often have a W cast in the front.
Thanks Bob here are my canister markings. I will need to go to my shop to check the pump core stamps. Looks like I have a Ford Thompson pump and should be painted teal. So I will paint both teal
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Thanks Bob here are my canister markings. I will need to go to my shop to check the pump core stamps. Looks like I have a Ford Thompson pump and should be painted teal. So I will paint both teal
Not only both but the assembly. Protect/mask/ tape off the shaft. Install the tag and rear retaining nut then paint as pointed out in prior threads and discussions
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Not only both but the assembly. Protect/mask/ tape off the shaft. Install the tag and rear retaining nut then paint as pointed out in prior threads and discussions
Thanks Jeff. Does that mean that the tag gets painted as well
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Thanks Jeff. Does that mean that the tag gets painted as well
That and the retaining (big thin) nut. Reason I wanted to mention those details ;)
Basic idea
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/11/6-211218203141.jpeg)
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That and the retaining (big thin) nut. Reason I wanted to mention those details ;)
Basic idea
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/11/6-211218203141.jpeg)
Thanks Jeff that is perfect
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Before assembling my pump (plan was to wet sand the reservoir before completing the assembly and a re-shoot), hoping the color shows correctly on viewing monitors. One pic with flash and one without. Bought at NPD 3 or 4 years ago, just getting around to pump rebuild.
(apologies for the slow load, large file...new phone, need to change the settings...)
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A friend used Mustang POWER STEERING PUMP PAINT ENAMEL EXACT: part number AP-PSPE from NPD on 65 power steering pump and was written up for wrong color. This paint is a dark turquoise / purple. I assume it was a slop mix each day. Anyway was told it is too dark and told to go look at another car. Sure enough the color on the other car was much lighter. Just like early Pontiac engine paint. Anyway just want to ask is the NPD Mustang POWER STEERING PUMP PAINT ENAMEL EXACT MATCH part number AP-PSPE correct or not?
There was a range of shades it could be given the paint varied from one batch to another. Hard to say what the issue was at the time of judging . Paint error ,judging error etc. Without seeing a picture (monitors can play tricks when reviewing as mentioned ) or knowing the circumstances/context it would be hard to give a definitive answer to your question.
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Agreed that this may possibly be judges error - depending on the education or experiences of one or more judges in a team. Some less seasoned judges can fall into the "its not like mine" mindset which is unfortunate. If you have matched the color to an original then just be prepared next time during the introduction of the judging team to offer something like.
"In the past there was a question about the PS pump color and we had the color matched to an original, here is a spray out/example of the color and as you can see it matched the pump" Substituting a really good printed picture of an original in your binder of documentation may also serve the same purpose. For an MCA judged event this should move the subject to subject to the "reasonable doubt" consideration
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My two cents; I am not a judge but your two photos look to be in the range of acceptability for MCA judging. I have not seen an original pump or a correctly restored pump that looks like Pontiac engine paint. Maybe there were some, I have not seen them all.
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My two cents; I am not a judge but your two photos look to be in the range of acceptability for MCA judging. I have not seen an original pump or a correctly restored pump that looks like Pontiac engine paint. Maybe there were some, I have not seen them all.
Thanks for the comment. I have since sprayed the 2nd coat. What a mistake that was, apparently the first coat was too fresh. (we all know what happened here). I did end up with an acceptable job but will likely repaint it after running a bench test of sorts. You know how it is recommended to keep the vanes in place, do not take those out? Well crap happened twice on this pump rebuild...may be hunting another pump before I am done! Oh, it went back together just fine but I cannot imagine it was ideal to pick pieces of the pump up in the surrounding area and simply (randomly) insert any vane in any old slot. We'll see when I power it up with fluid in it.