ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: socalgt on June 06, 2015, 07:54:10 PM
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I've been through many, many posts of the routing of the hoses......and seen many pictures of how they should connect to the valve....but I'm trying to find a picture of exactly how they are positioned before they go through the rubber insulator....over the slave cylinder? under? I can't find a picture that specifically shows it. When correctly attached to the valve(based on some excellent posts of original, NOS and replacement) they are pointed more vertically than towards the rubber insulator that they need to go through. And on the subject of the insulator...exactly how is the insulator bracket attached?...I assume the hole is threaded in the motor mount on an original power steering car...does the upper half of the bracket go inside with the bolt going through towards the back of the car?
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... When correctly attached to the valve(based on some excellent posts of original, NOS and replacement) they are pointed more vertically than towards the rubber insulator that they need to go through. And on the subject of the insulator...exactly how is the insulator bracket attached?...I assume the hole is threaded in the motor mount on an original power steering car...does the upper half of the bracket go inside with the bolt going through towards the back of the car?
You are correct, in the other thread the hoses look to be going somewhat vertically, towards exhaust manifold but bend frontwards immediately in the rubber portion of the hose. There is a bracket that bolts down to one of the motor mount long frame bracket bolts. Then there is a somewhat "D" shaped strap that surrounds the rubber insulator. That "D"-shaped bracket is bolted with a self-threading 5/16" bolt into the bracket held on with the engine frame mount. The return hose then goes straight into the pump, the pressure hose however, circle around through a strap on the strut tower and downwards into the pressure port on the back side of the pump.
I do not have assembled pictures of these things other than the ones that you likely have already seen in the other thread.
Richard
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Thanks for the information.....I spend an awful lot of time searching Mustang forums, including this one, as well as GOOGLE trying to find information like this. Would be nice to have the factory assembly manual(assuming it is well illustrated) for things such as this. It was easier to restore midyear corvettes with the factory assembly manual and judging manuals available so specific and well diagramed.
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I'm still not sure exactly how the insulator bracket itself mounts to the frame.....can't find a picture....is there a bolt(self threading) that goes into an existing hole in the motor mount?
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I'm still not sure exactly how the insulator bracket itself mounts to the frame.....can't find a picture....is there a bolt(self threading) that goes into an existing hole in the motor mount?
Pictures are going to be tough since they run above the motor mount it seems rather than below like the following years. You do have the two "rubber" straps that hold the pressure line to the drivers side shock tower. Will see if I've got a shot with the engine out.
Corvettes have it easy compare to the Mustang (not even going to add in the Shelby's with them) - two body styles, one plant, less engine and transmissions combinations, models .........
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I'm still not sure exactly how the insulator bracket itself mounts to the frame.....can't find a picture....is there a bolt(self threading) that goes into an existing hole in the motor mount?
Don't have a picture of the underside of that little bracket from the back side looking forward - basically from the steering box forward.
Where it is situated it appears that the bottom hole of that T shaped ps insulator bracket is held in place by the top most frame to engine mount bracket as Richard/67gtasanjose wrote above.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-060615235958.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-060615235946.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-070615000008.jpeg)
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Thanks much for the pictures....I'll spend some time orienting myself to it while looking at my car and figure out how to mount it..I have an original insulator bracket to install.
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Well....I've been under my car this morning with the great pics posted...but really can't match the picture to what I'm looking at...I loosely put the bracket(original) the only place it looks like it could attach and still hang the insulator rubber where it should be. The bolt in the picture is just to hold it in place. Is this where it attaches...and if so, I assume it won't be in the way of the lower A arm movement. I can't believe I've spent 3 days now trying to figure out how to mount this...(and that's with the original bracket). Guess I need more help....
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That is a location someone seeing 68 pictures might mount the bracket since those hoses traveled below the engine mount rather than (how 67 small blocks as shown above) were routed. 68 brackets, if I recall correctly, mount to the out side surface of the lower shock tower/a arm attachment point rather than inside like you have it
Take it off - place it over the upper motor mount frame bracket and the upper bolt through that hole you used in the picture to attach to the lower a arm mount and let us know what you discover
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Boy, was I looking in the wrong place. I finally put together your pictures and descriptions and found its' proper place. I can't tell you how many searches I did for '67 power steering hose routing/insulator bracket mounting, etc., I didn't find one showing its' correct location. They all showed it below the mount.
Thanks much for your help...
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A couple of additional supporting pictures and drawings I found in my files
A little mangled :(
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-080615190203.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-080615190323.jpeg)
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Thanks again....I mounted the original bracket where it should be and the hoses are now routed properly. By the way....in what manual is that illustration of the bracket mounting...is it an assembly manual?
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Regarding my earlier post about the '67 power steering hose indexing bracket.....I see it fits over the long bolt that the pump slides on in the picture that was previously posted... I assume the "hook" on the other end guides the pressure line hose to its' correct position?
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Thanks again....I mounted the original bracket where it should be and the hoses are now routed properly. By the way....in what manual is that illustration of the bracket mounting...is it an assembly manual?
MPC - Think one in paper form with both part number and illustration pages can make up a stack of paper over 2 feet high ::)
Unfortunately many times is just a generic drawing that should not be used as a single source IMHO resource but in this case it matched what we saw in the unrested cars pictures that were posted.
Glad it helped
= I assume the "hook" on the other end guides the pressure line hose to its' correct position?
The hook speeds installation and securing of the hoses since it goes in the lower hole in the bracket meaning the worker on the line only has one bolt to install and tighten
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very interesting, Socalgt is it possible to share a picture of the installation?
I think it would be helping other people (including me ;)), since a picture says more than words...
Kind regards,
Jeroen
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Regarding my earlier post about the '67 power steering hose indexing bracket.....I see it fits over the long bolt that the pump slides on in the picture that was previously posted... I assume the "hook" on the other end guides the pressure line hose to its' correct position?
The hook speeds installation and securing of the hoses since it goes in the lower hole in the bracket meaning the worker on the line only has one bolt to install and tighten
Did Jeff answer your question? I read it differently. Jeff seems to be answering the indexing "hinge" that is on the "D" shaped grommet bracket for the images supplied within THIS thread. I read your question as asking about the "indexing bracket" on the back of the power steering pump, but that you are reffering to images posted in another thread. Is that correct?
We need to be clear in our understanding, most notably because of images of incorrect "indexing" brackets which are on the backside of the power steering pump that have been recently posted in other threads, but were used along with disclaimers.
Socalgt, you are working on a 67 Small Block, correct? If I read this correctly, and I understood things as the written wording appears to me, your question I quoted within this post looks to be asking about a 68 style small block "indexing" bracket that attaches to the back side of the pump, you had in another thread mentioned seeing one available or having one available. Also, Jeff posted a clear picture in another thread of the backside of another style pump, with an indexing bracket pointing downwards. I beieve there has been some confusion now created by accident.
Bottom line is that on the backside of the power steering pump, a 67 SMALL BLOCK (289) uses a strap metal support bracket that DOES NOT incorporate an indexing support for the pressure hose. The pressure hose is simply aligned "by eye" pointing upwards, to the filler tube of the pump. However, for a 68 SB engines, again, on the backside of the power steering pump, the 68 small blocks DO have the indexing support for the pressure hose that cleary require the assembly worker to align it within the bracket.
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I will post a picture after I install it.
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Correct...I'm working on a '67 small block....you are also correct that I am working off a picture posted showing the bracket on the back of a pump on a '67...I believe I originally posted a picture of a '68, not realizing it is different than '67. Any way, I will post a picture after I install the pump and bracket and see where we stand on "correctness".
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yes the previous post seen to be for only 67 ..i do somes research and i think i found the indexing bracket for a 289 68 ! suppose to look like this one ..if anyone have this bracket, i need one !!
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Correct...I'm working on a '67 small block....you are also correct that I am working off a picture posted showing the bracket on the back of a pump on a '67...I believe I originally posted a picture of a '68, not realizing it is different than '67. Any way, I will post a picture after I install the pump and bracket and see where we stand on "correctness".
I SEE THE BRACKET I AM LOOKING FOR in image #1! Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! Ok, well at least I have an image (un-installed) to use in my WTB post now! Anyone else who reads this, if you have one, PM me!
Next, and why I replied, regarding the power steering pump mounting bracket, (the aluminum one) this image is showing it is painted, it should be natural cast aluminum, without paint. If it were corroded or oxidized, closest natural-looking finish can be simulated by using a tumbler with the correct media. It will not be exact...but will look much better than painted (any color).
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I think there is currently a '68 bracket on Ebay if you're still looking.
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I think there is currently a '68 bracket on Ebay if you're still looking.
The only one I see (on eBay right now) looks incorrect for a Mustang, shoots the pressure hose more or less horizontal, Mustang should go straight up for a small block, maybe for a full-sized sedan, pickup or the likes.
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I'll post some pics from behind the pump showing how the bracket attaches and(hopefully)does what it's supposed to...(which I think is to help align the pressure hose with the pump fitting)
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So.....let me see if I understand the consensus about the '67 small block p.s. pump(indexing)bracket....what exactly is its' purpose?. When I mount my pump with the bracket in position, I guess it should be clear what it does(hopefully). I haven't seen a picture of it from behind the pump.
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So.....let me see if I understand the consensus about the '67 small block p.s. pump(indexing)bracket....what exactly is its' purpose?.
Simply supporting the weight of the back half of the pump. Without something back there the pump would simply hang from just the pump support bolts.
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So.....let me see if I understand the consensus about the '67 small block p.s. pump(indexing)bracket....what exactly is its' purpose?. When I mount my pump with the bracket in position, I guess it should be clear what it does(hopefully). I haven't seen a picture of it from behind the pump.
It also absorbs vibrations, keeps things quieter, thus preventing the possibility of cracking any of the other brackets. Call it "overkill". Basically, other than being an original part pf the assembly, it would not be noticed if it were left out. I say this because mine was left out some time ago in history, and I didn't notice till I became aware it was gone in this forum.
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The only one I see (on eBay right now) looks incorrect for a Mustang, shoots the pressure hose more or less horizontal, Mustang should go straight up for a small block, maybe for a full-sized sedan, pickup or the likes.
dso you told me that the bracket i post with a picture its not the right bracket for my 68 ?
anybody have a 289 with a p/s and can take a picture of this bracket to help please !?
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dso you told me that the bracket i post with a picture its not the right bracket for my 68 ?
anybody have a 289 with a p/s and can take a picture of this bracket to help please !?
Maybe a misunderstanding here? I believe the one you posted a picture of in reply #18 IS CORRECT for your car, a 68, NOT correct for my car, a 67 and I beleve the one mentioned for sale on ebay isn't correct for any Mustang (If I found the same listing on ebay socalgt mentioned)
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I understand now that I attach it....it extends to the back of the pump where the high pressure hose fitting on the pump to support the pump itself, as you said. There is an extra nut there to attach it.
Thanks Again...
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Maybe a misunderstanding here? I believe the one you posted a picture of in reply #18 IS CORRECT for your car, a 68, NOT correct for my car, a 67 and I beleve the one mentioned for sale on ebay isn't correct for any Mustang (If I found the same listing on ebay socalgt mentioned)
oki perfect, just want ot make sure about my bracket too buy one !
thanks
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The thread is becoming a good example of why we try not to get off thread and into other years and models ::)
Don't even see a way to split the 68 comments out at this point but maybe I'll see if I can .
Just saying
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The thread is becoming a good example of why we try not to get off thread and into other years and models ::)
Don't even see a way to split the 68 comments out at this point but maybe I'll see if I can .
Just saying
I think it has been helpful (educational) to see and recognize some of the differences in the parts used for these two years on ONLY the small blocks. Certain aspects like this are not very clear when you look at the two years (67-68). These two years share so many parts as the same and then they have nothing the same in other areas. Just look at the list of potential small block pressure hoses alone that can be seen for the small blocks. SURE, it could be (split or) cleaned up and condensed a WHOLE LOT. This is just another one of the many, many issues between the 67-68 Mustangs that so many people know little to nothing about. My vote: Leave it alone or rename the thread.
Richard
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Here are some pics with the "infamous" bracket installed.
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I think it has been helpful (educational) to see and recognize some of the differences in the parts used for these two years on ONLY the small blocks. Certain aspects like this are not very clear when you look at the two years (67-68). These two years share so many parts as the same and then they have nothing the same in other areas. Just look at the list of potential small block pressure hoses alone that can be seen for the small blocks. SURE, it could be (split or) cleaned up and condensed a WHOLE LOT. This is just another one of the many, many issues between the 67-68 Mustangs that so many people know little to nothing about. My vote: Leave it alone or rename the thread.
Richard
+1
that help a lot of people, like a beginner like me that i was thinking all parts 67 - 68 was identical !! so you gonna have a lot of new topic with me !! lol
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... so you gonna have a lot of new topic with me !! lol
Many topics have aready been discussed, so it is always better to do a "SEARCH" before beginning a new thread.
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pictures of brace(bracket)
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.... and to further muddy the water, mhubert posted a picture (from my website) of what I call the alternate bracket for 1968 289/302 engines. Yes, I have found 2 different styles of the rear indexing brackets on 1968 small block engines. It will be until next week before I can get a side by side comparison picture.
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This posting comes at the perfect time for me. I'm struggling with this installation right now.
Gimpy
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.... and to further muddy the water, mhubert posted a picture (from my website) of what I call the alternate bracket for 1968 289/302 engines. Yes, I have found 2 different styles of the rear indexing brackets on 1968 small block engines. It will be until next week before I can get a side by side comparison picture.
Great SCOTT! Now you've done it! Now it's Clear as MUD agian! Yes, WCCC had a 67 ONLY, "ALL V-8 engines" version available, answering my need and I placed an order yesterday. (fits all V8 engines for 1967, per their website)
Let me stir the mud again also: Could maybe Jeff or Mr. Gaines add any wisdom as to if the 67 ONLY small block rear bracket is the same as the big block rear bracket. ;D ::)
I'll link WCCC's current catalog page here for easy referrence:
http://www2.cougarpartscatalog.com/c7az-3c511-b.html
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Great SCOTT! Now you've done it! Now it's Clear as MUD agian! Yes, WCCC had a 67 ONLY, "ALL V-8 engines" version available, answering my need and I placed an order yesterday. (fits all V8 engines for 1967, per their website)
Let me stir the mud again also: Could maybe Jeff or Mr. Gaines add any wisdom as to if the 67 ONLY small block rear bracket is the same as the big block rear bracket. ;D ::)
I'll link WCCC's current catalog page here for easy referrence:
http://www2.cougarpartscatalog.com/c7az-3c511-b.html
67 SB+BB same same.
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.... and to further muddy the water, mhubert posted a picture (from my website) of what I call the alternate bracket for 1968 289/302 engines. Yes, I have found 2 different styles of the rear indexing brackets on 1968 small block engines. .....
Since we're chasing this rabbit - could the "alternate" bracket be a plant specific thing? Seeing that it appears that engines were not shipped with PS engine parts attached they would have been added at the car plants, making it which bracket or supplier to use based on that supply. Reason for this comment is that I'm not seeing the "67" style on 68's out of San Jose in my collection.
Just a possibility I wanted to throw out there.
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Since we're chasing this rabbit - could the "alternate" bracket be a plant specific thing? Seeing that it appears that engines were not shipped with PS engine parts attached they would have been added at the car plants, making it which bracket or supplier to use based on that supply. Reason for this comment is that I'm not seeing the "67" style on 68's out of San Jose in my collection.
Just a possibility I wanted to throw out there.
That is the path that I am going to explore. Most of the 1968 cars (Cougars) coming through my wrecking yard are from San Jose, very few Dearborn in 1968. I will form some thoughts and start a fresh thread.
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The thread is becoming a good example of why we try not to get off thread and into other years and models ::)
Don't even see a way to split the 68 comments out at this point but maybe I'll see if I can .
Just saying
I think these sorts of things could be split out as a document rather than cutting the thread out into 2. Maybe you can convince the guy who started the research to put something together...
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I think these sorts of things could be split out as a document rather than cutting the thread out into 2. Maybe you can convince the guy who started the research to put something together...
Once we reach some sort of conclusion or end that might be a good way to wrap this all up in an easier to read format. Might take the group to get there but should not be a big task once we collect as much as possible
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I'll link WCCC's current catalog page here for easy referrence:
http://www2.cougarpartscatalog.com/c7az-3c511-b.html
Your post led me to something I hadn't noticed before: the illustration section of the '75 MPC shows 3C511 as the basic P/N for three different brackets! For 8 cyl cars it shows the front adjuster and the hose bracket with that number, and for 6 cyl there is another cast bracket that bolts to the engine (not the swinging one the pump is attached to) that shows the same number! Per the text portion of the MPC, the basic part numbers are as follows:
3C510 - hose bracket. I've not seen any with numbers marked.
3C511 - front, stamped. Does not always have a P/N marked. (The photo shown from Mustangtek is from a '70, just to illustrate which bracket I'm referring to).
3A732 - rear, cast. Part number cast into front surface.
I only bring this up because the WCCC link you provided lists the wrong basic P/N for the bracket. It should be 3C510.
----- UNLESS -----
Did the front bracket and the hose bracket really share the same basic P/N in '67-'68? Did the "3C5xx" numbers come later, for service part usage?
My October 1968 Master Cross Reference List does not have any entries for "3C510" or "3C511". It also does not list "3A732", which clearly existed as that number is actually marked on assembly line parts. The MCRL states: "This is a numerical listing of all items assigned Parts and Accessories Part Numbers from April 1, 1966 to date." So it doesn't prove that "3C510", "3C511" and "3A732" were not in use as engineering numbers, it only indicates that no service part numbers had been assigned for those basics between April 1 of 1966 and October of 1968. (Prior to April 1, 1966 woud be in an earier volume, which I do not have)
Sorry for the diversion, this does not help sort out actual bracket usage. I'm just curious if the illustration is an "oops" or if there is more to the story regarding the part numbers. Any clarification would be appreciated.
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Here's some Jan 67 MPS related stuff, hope it helps. John