ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: rrenz on December 28, 2016, 04:15:34 PM
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Im currently in the process of rebuilding my 66 8 inch rear end. I have the original FoMoCo stamped backing plates. The Brake Adjuster Holes that would normally have a rubber plug in them are welded shut. There is a perfect stamped sheet metal plug in its place that has two small tack welds holding it in place. This appears to of been done at the factory? Mostly just curious as to why this was done if anyone has any insight.
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That's the way they came from the factory before the first brake adjustment was performed.
The welded plate was knocked out and after the job was done they replaced it with a rubber
plug.
Texas Swede
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That's the way they came from the factory before the first brake adjustment was performed.
The welded plate was knocked out and after the job was done they replaced it with a rubber
plug.
Texas Swede
There was a TSB article released to the Service departments letting them know of the change in 66. Other car manufacturers did the same for years. Punched out likely over a 100 pairs in the 70's working at a service station while in high school.
In some cases (if the Ford measuring gauges could not be used) workers were instructed to punch out the metal plugs and cover the hole with the rubber plugs. It's believe that is why (sort of like the CAUTION FAN decals) there were so many boxes of the NOS rubber plugs found in the parts system for a long long time. It was introduced into production during 7/65 according to TSB #327
The metal knock-out is normally attached at the lower left bottom edge of the opening and once knocked out can often leave a small rough edge at that point
Your car would be about the 30th car I've documented plus the ton of others I've seen over the years before we started to record and take pictures
Believe there is a prior thread discussing the change
A note and line item as been added to all the 65 Running Changes stickys
An example - from my wife's car
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/6/6-281216175807.jpeg)
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Huh... very interesting. Thanks for the info!
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Actually the change over started earlier than July 65 at Dearborn. Both of my June 65 cars have the punch outs still present.
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Huh. Midlife's right rear had a small hole, but nothing close to the right shape. I had to grind out the hole to make it roughly the same size/shape to fit the rubber plug. I was working from the backside only, so I never really looked to see if there was a punch-out that was not punched out correctly.
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Actually the change over started earlier than July 65 at Dearborn. Both of my June 65 cars have the punch outs still present.
Yea looks like I need to move it to the 65 running changes when ever we start to post those. Will be a much longer list than 66 ::)
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Realized I never posted the TSB that announced this change and the additional information Ford published to show service personal how to measure and adjust the drum brakes using the Rotunda gauge as was done at the plant.
Information and illustrations have been reorganized to better fit the chosen format
First TSB-327 Published June 1965
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/6-280223001215-184131985.jpeg)
And the follow up information published in the next TSB collection sent to the dealerships and shops.
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/6-280223001218-18415335.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/6-280223001216-184141068.jpeg)
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When were the rear backing plate adjusting hole metal knock out plates eliminated? Did the entire 66 production have the metal knock out plates or were they eliminated sometime during production and if so approximate changeover?
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When were the rear backing plate adjusting hole metal knock out plates eliminated? Did the entire 66 production have the metal knock out plates or were they eliminated sometime during production and if so approximate changeover?
I've not found any Ford documentation stating a change from that design - may have taken place after classic Mustangs and other Fords were being made. From personal observations and working at a shop in 72-73 I knocked out a ton of cars backing plate knock outs on all types of cars (GM products and Fords for example) during that time period when they got their first brake adjustment. Never paid attention to the year (though they did include cars through 1969 I would guess or the car model but it was very common to see this at the time. Guess this was a thing from the backing plate providers and not only a Ford thing. Guess we should look to the other cars to see if they have caught on to this detail and see if its represented and in what years.
Since this details came up decades ago I've I've been able to collect a fair number of examples but to this point all have been 66's but except that other years will show up at some point - just need to keep looking :)
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I've not found any Ford documentation stating a change from that design - may have taken place after classic Mustangs and other Fords were being made. From personal observations and working at a shop in 72-73 I knocked out a ton of cars backing plate knock outs on all types of cars (GM products and Fords for example) during that time period when they got their first brake adjustment. Never paid attention to the year (though they did include cars through 1969 I would guess or the car model but it was very common to see this at the time. Guess this was a thing from the backing plate providers and not only a Ford thing. Guess we should look to the other cars to see if they have caught on to this detail and see if its represented and in what years.
Since this details came up decades ago I've I've been able to collect a fair number of examples but to this point all have been 66's but except that other years will show up at some point - just need to keep looking :)
I did. According to the shop manuals there was a change after the 66 model year. The 66 shop manual says to "knock the excess slug out of the brake carrier plate with a punch" ( knock out the metal plug ) . By contrast the 67 ,68 and 69 shop manual all use the same verbiage but indicate to "remove the rubber cover" (take out the rubber plug). Apparently the 67 and up manuals indicate the plug change to rubber was made from that 67 production time forward.
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I did. According to the shop manuals there was a change after the 66 model year. The 66 shop manual says to "knock the excess slug out of the brake carrier plate with a punch" ( knock out the metal plug ) . By contrast the 67 ,68 and 69 shop manual all use the same verbiage but indicate to "remove the rubber cover" (take out the rubber plug). Apparently the 67 and up manuals indicate the plug change to rubber was made from that 67 production time forward.
Interesting find. Thanks. Will still keep an eye and mind open and look for examples though they may never appear. Does make sense about the later years were we have accepted the idea that certain suppliers of backing plates used rubber plugs with specific patterns on them. If those backing plates had had to be knocked out we would have not been able to identify that difference.
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So are we saying this applies mostly to late '65 and into '66 production? What's the date on the TSB talking about the 'new design'?
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Interesting find. Thanks. Will still keep an eye and mind open and look for examples though they may never appear. Does make sense about the later years were we have accepted the idea that certain suppliers of backing plates used rubber plugs with specific patterns on them. If those backing plates had had to be knocked out we would have not been able to identify that difference.
With that in mind and since the vast majority of 65's and 66's restored cars have the "slugs" knocked out we will have to come up with a fair expectation for those cars in concours . Accept without the metal slugs? If so what is the expectation for the rubber plugs as in mfg type or should it be any type generic rubber plug be accepted since they could be knocked out at the Ford dealer or at the local gas station? All those are things to consider. It is clear cut on 67 and up but not so much on 65/66 if you consider the the assemblyline metal plugs. I know which way I am leaning given typical concours expectations.
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The original TSB was dated June 15th 65. Indicated also in post #7
The June 15 65 date is when the TSB came out. I wonder how many months logistically it took before Ford discovered that they had a problem and needed to pint a TSB. I don't think it is likely that it would be simultaneously with its 6/15/65 put into implication date.
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So are we saying this applies mostly to late '65 and into '66 production? What's the date on the TSB talking about the 'new design'?
The original TSB was dated June 15th 65. Indicated also in post #7
Been following and collecting examples for decades since I was reminded of the detail when I first purchased the wife's 66 San Jose car. Here are five examples from 65 and 66. The upper left example happens to be Mike's 65 Dearborn built convertible. Have more of course but this should illustrate what they often look like when found. If they have been knocked out the small irregular lower edge of the opening will still be there as evidence of the plug attachment. Don't see a reason, at this moment to post a picture of those.
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/6-280223234932-18424120.jpeg)
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The June 15 65 date is when the TSB came out. I wonder how many months logistically it took before Ford discovered that they had a problem and needed to pint a TSB. I don't think it is likely that it would be simultaneously with its 6/15/65 put into implication date.
Don't think there is any indication that there was a "problem", just a change on the details of the product as it was changed to and as delivered to the car plant and the Sterling plant for the rear end assemblies. In other cars, often problem or just change of process or practices at the plants that would affect the dealers or service personnel the TSB did include a date of the change at the plant in the text. Example May 4th 65 when the plants stopped shipping vinyl top Mustang and other ford products with black or brown tops without shipping covers as they had done prior and continued to do with lighter colored tops.
IMHO more likely the change on the line took place prior to the publishing of the TSB. Often we find the TSB, when there is a issue or problem, identify that one a certain week or time period the following mistake or problem got by them and for dealerships and service personal to on the look out for the issue. Examples from my memory were crankshaft pulley bolts, flywheel and starter mismatch, routing of the starter cable on early K codes as well as others.
In other examples of TSB there is no indication of when the change too effect. Examples would be (TSB#621) the change from what the shop manual said (when it was printed) to a change in what spark plugs were being used in 67 or when (TSB#325) when Ford changed the piston and piston pin design. Just two that I happened to have scanned when I did the knock out one above.
Sorry likely went deeper than necessary in the uses of TSBs
Bottom line would be that since we don't know exactly the date the 65 and 66 cars were completed we can't say exactly to the day which cars built near that date in June it applies exactly but for others its pretty clear and we've found physical evidence of the practice