ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Body, Paint & Sealers => Topic started by: notav8gt on November 02, 2009, 08:36:18 PM
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some say enamel and others say base/clear. I painted my svo with enamel and have been told repeatedly that I ruined the car. Personally I like the orange peel, it does not have alot, but some. What is everybodies take on it here?
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Love seeing good orange peel on a restored car. Anyone and everyone is doing the dipped in plastic look which IMHO takes so much of the original look away from the cars.
Just me
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If the goal is to restore the car just like the factory did then natural steel and cast parts should have NO protection. In most cases the orange peel would follow with dirt, grinder marks on lead seams, lack of paint coverage/dry spots on some areas, runs, blemishes, metallic sags in the trunk areas, etc... were do you stop?, or maybe you don't?
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It's a choice owner's make. As Jeff says, lots of cars are painted incorrectly. My painter does a great job with single stage urethane.
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You know Tony that is what makes this site really unique !!
You got three "interested" answers from Mustnag community collectors/restorers that offer "both side" of issues and you shouldn't come away feeling bashed !
PERFECT paint isn't what Ford applied on the line though the finishes changed as the years progressed !
I have a 85.5 SVO that is painted in single stage that gets great looks , attention and comments. Not many have seen my 1969 R code, but we choose to use BC/BC as it is Acapulco Blue. Either car shows well -but for different reasons. With the SVO it is glass smooth, color sanded "rich" for a non metalic. The SCJ "might be" overrestored with different peels (on the headlight buckets , end caps) and runs and drips put back where found in forensics.
SOMEONE is going to point that out -like with your car that just doesn't know , is used to the "Barrett-Jackson" look or thinks no time was taken. Where in fact , so much time was taken that some things were redone more than once !
Mark
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ive never seen a mustang have that much traction in the grass. That car is launching. Nice car.
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I second the single stage urethane. Has the enamel look w/o the problems
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I prefer the slight orange peel (single stage enamel) that Fords came with until recently.
My caspian blue 64 1/2 vert had beautiful paint from the factory.
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The orange peal on a finish has nothing to do with the type of paint or if it is base clear or single stage. Orange peal is created by the application due to material viscosity, air pressure and spray technique. On the first generation mustangs I would recommend a single stage eurethane paint, however if you have a metalic color I would recommend a two stage mainly due to if some wet sanding and buffing is needed (most of the time is) you are polishing on the clearcoat and protecting the metalics that tend to move around causing a blotchy or fogy look to the metalic. I painted my BOSS 302 that is grabber orange that is a solid color in single stage enamel and it looks good. The durability is about the same between the single and two stage as long as it is a catilyzed paint. I hope this helps.
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I thought the durability of single stage vs. bc/cc was about the same also, until my painter recently told me that PPG warrants single stage for like 2 years and bc/cc for 5 years!
Agree with the comments about how orange peel works. That's good info that everyone needs to understand, thanks!
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I'm planning on painting my mustang the original vintage burgundy metallic. Since it has a small amount of metal flake in it, would bc/cc be the way to go, or is there not enough metal flake in it to make a
difference if i used single stage urethane? Any comments would greatly appreciated.
Thanks, John
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I would go with a two stage urethane paint as the metallic in that color are very fine and like I mentioned in a previous post the metallics tend to move around a little when buffing and can cause a streaking or blotchy look. As far as durability between the single stage urethane and base clear urethane there may be a little more with two stage however I don't think it will be any factor on a classic car due to limited use. The UV rays from the sun are the most damaging to paint and most of the restored cars are kept in a garage with a cover on it, so I would not worry about durability. I painted my 70 BOSS 302 in 1990 with CENTARI enamel with a hardener which is not as durable as urethane and it shows no fading, of course the car doesn't get daily driven and it sits in the garage most of the time. Remember when painting a car most of your results are from the prep work underneath that make the paint look good and hold up. Use a quality etch primer over bare metal, use a two part urethane primer, invest in some good quality long, short and round sanding blocks, check your panel is straight by applying a guide coat, this is a contrasting color done with a spray can dusting over your build primer and when you sand this off when block sanding, any low spots will still have guide coat in them telling you more work is needed. After I sand down a panel I will also spray it with a paint cleaning solvent (water works too) and look down the panel and this will also show up any problems you may have before applying expensive paint. Sorry I got a little windy here but I can't stress enough about the importance of the prep work as it is like the foundation of a house. If a guy is doing prep work himself to save money these tips will save you a lot of grief. There are a lot of good videos and books available on this topic. P.S I have been doing body and paint work for 25 years
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Vintage Burgundy is a very tough color to paint with single stage, but it can be done. Talk to your painter to get their feel on the matter. As mentioned, you really can't buff it much. Any sags/runs or drips will have to be sanded down and re-painted, they simply will not buff out right. Basically, it comes down to how good your painter is and how good the paint booth is!
We did single stage on the K convertible I'm restoring, which is VB color. I think it looks gorgeous! http://65kresto.blogspot.com/
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:) Thanks guys for all the great information, it is most appreciated.
John
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The orange peal on a finish has nothing to do with the type of paint or if it is base clear or single stage. Orange peal is created by the application due to material viscosity, air pressure and spray technique. On the first generation mustangs I would recommend a single stage eurethane paint, however if you have a metalic color I would recommend a two stage mainly due to if some wet sanding and buffing is needed (most of the time is) you are polishing on the clearcoat and protecting the metalics that tend to move around causing a blotchy or fogy look to the metalic. I painted my BOSS 302 that is grabber orange that is a solid color in single stage enamel and it looks good. The durability is about the same between the single and two stage as long as it is a catilyzed paint. I hope this helps.
Long ago Ford used enamle. GM used laquer. I was the second owner of a 37 Ford. I sold it in 1990. 90% of the body had the original black baked on enamle.
It was still glossy black and had the original slight orange peal!
That paint was 53 years old when I sold the car and had the original shine!
I regularly used laquer thinner to get deposits off the paint.
Anybody have a 50 year old BC,CC paint job?
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Hi to all on this subject of paint,
After reading this it is quite obvious that some people are not aware of recent changes in the world,regarding paint and its chemical content.The new stuff out, is way different than what was used to paint your vintage car originally.You must be careful for several reasons-the biggest ones are color match,and depth.Any base/clear paint will give more depth than the original single stage did.The most difficult effect to duplicate is the out of the gun "peel" that factory paint had.This is very important on/with any non-solid color.The best advice is talk to the painter,and explain what you desire,and why.Please remember EVERYONE can see the exterior paint,and it is what really gives a car some identity.Also nothing seems as durable as factory applied paint,regardless of its age...wonder why? most of it is due to the amount that is sprayed on.Factory paint is very thin,and heat cured to speed up production,and flow it out to an acceptable level of peel.Sorry if this is boring.Just trying to help out.
R.R.
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Also nothing seems as durable as factory applied paint,regardless of its age...wonder why? most of it is due to the amount that is sprayed on.Factory paint is very thin,and heat cured to speed up production,and flow it out to an acceptable level of peel.
I always thought the reason factory paint was more durable was because it was baked on. I am curious does anyone know why the thinner paint is more durable?
I am also starting to think that with the newer tools and paints available to many body shops the difference in durability may be less.
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I agree in that IMHO the newer paints and products are not as long lasting as the older stuff. Have a number of cars that were painted in the 80's and they have held up fine (no sand out or buffing). Have cars and parts (BC/CC) that have peeled and lifted after 5 years.
Believe that like many other things in our lives the new stuff is designed to last just a bit longer than the average ownership length
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As far as the newer products lasting and being durable, it all has to do with the preparation and application. Most folks do not want to spend the time or money (or don't have the talent) to do this properly. If they do though, the new materials are absolutely fantastic.
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As far as the newer products lasting and being durable, it all has to do with the preparation and application. Most folks do not want to spend the time or money (or don't have the talent) to do this properly. If they do though, the new materials are absolutely fantastic.
+1, its all in the prep and following the tech sheets.
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When we paint a concours car or high end driver, we use single stage paint. On modified cars or super nice drivers, we use base/clear. A good judge can tell the difference on a high end concours car. Base/clear is much deeper and prettier. The Guys on Barrett Jackson were kinda picky on that this year.
The orange peel was not originally made by the paint guns and setups back in the day. The orange peel was a result of the heat lamp curing process. Remember these cars were painted back with high pressure guns and paint that could kill you. The orange peel was a result of the curing process (kinda like wrinkle finish valve covers ;D).
Todays HVLP guns actually have more orange peel traits than the old guns (we use to crank the pressure in the good ol' days), but because of the clearcoat systems you can work a lot of the peel out of the paint.
Base/Clear allows for more UV protection, acid rain resistance, MUCH easier to paint metallics (anyone remember putting ball bearings in their Binks no 7 spihon feed cup?) and a much deeper finish, but if you are going high end concours you should shoot single stage.
Dave
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................... (anyone remember putting ball bearings in their Binks no 7 spihon feed cup?) and a much deeper finish, but if you are going high end concours you should shoot single stage.
Yes but used new 9/16 & 1/2" nuts ;)
Still didn't make me a good painter LOL
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;D Hello all;
Long ago, I restored a '70 Mach 1 in Grabber Blue single stage. My painter suggested that if I chose to color sand and buff the finish, I would shorten the life of the paint because he said that as the paint cures, the solvents, and uv protectors rise to the surface. Color sanding and buffing the "orange peel" off removes these "protectors" and shortens the life of the paint. I restored the car in 1992, and I saw the car up close last fall, and it looks great! It was painted in PPG Deltron.
Also, In my area (southern Oregon), I have found it impossible to locate a painter who will paint single stage metallics. They all look at me like I am crazy! (I restore Mustangs, but do not do the paint). Has anyone else had this problem? Maybe in a larger metro. area, there are a few "old timers" who have painted single stage metallics over the years, and it is no big deal.
Ken Mann
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Also, In my area (southern Oregon), I have found it impossible to locate a painter who will paint single stage metallics. They all look at me like I am crazy! (I restore Mustangs, but do not do the paint). Has anyone else had this problem? Maybe in a larger metro. area, there are a few "old timers" who have painted single stage metallics over the years, and it is no big deal.
Ken Mann
I had trouble just trying to find a supplier for single stage paint in the area. I could special order it but I started to worry that if I ever needed to have someone try to match the paint I would have trouble.
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My painter was crazy enough to accommodate me and spray vintage burgundy in single stage. The results are stunning, but of course, touch-up is a pain!
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Also, understand that just because its SS doesn't mean its not durable. There are urethane SS paint systems, much more durable than an AE system.