ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: 7R02A on June 29, 2014, 09:39:09 PM
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Hello all,
I am trying to determine if I should restore my 67 deluxe steering wheel or purchase a reproduction. I searched this site and found topics on the 65 and 66's, but not the 67's. The questions are:
1. Is the reproductions actuate and quality pieces?
2. If I restore my original, who is the best company to do this? Any idea on cost?
I am also missing the lower collar for my wheel and I have tilt steering. I have been told that the collar is different between tilt and non tilt. Dose anyone have a picture of both so I can see what it is I am looking for?
Thanks for any help in advace,
John
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John,
I had the original deluxe wheel in my '66 fastback restored. I don't have the company name on me at the moment, but the cost was $1100 back in 2009, give or take a little. The rim had several cracks and the hub was rechromed. In retrospect, start with the best wheel you can find if you want to have an original redone. I think a lot of my cost went into having the chrome redone.
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I have used the reproduction on a customer's car and it was very nice. I had mine restored in 2008 and I think it cost $650 It was really good. I guess in the end it is all in how much you want to pay and how good it needs to be.
Marty
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Thanks to all that replied. I'm still interested if anyone can tell me the differences between standard and deluxe lower collars or would have pictures for a car with tilt steering?
Thanks again.
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I don't see any differences myself. The second photo wheel on the bottom is from the tilt column in the picture, the one on the top is not, but I'm not 100
% sure of that.
Note that the center crash pad for the wood wheel is different (deeper) than the standard wheel. I posted a picture comparing this in a previous post.
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Thanks so much John. This is a relief if they are the same. I was told they were different, and the NPD catalog list it as non tilt only, but I have never been able to pin it down.
thanks again for you pictures and effort.
John
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When I get a chance I'll check the MPC
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IIRC, the tilt one is more narrow than non-tilt.
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Charles, would you happen to have the dimension that is different so when I am looking for one I know when I found it? The few a have held in my hands, did not have a part number cast into them, physical measurement is the only why to tell them apart.
Thanks,
John
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The 1975 MPC calls for:
Wheel - solid color - C7ZZ-3600-L (suffix = color; L,J,P,K,H,M,N)
Wheel - woodgrain - C7OZ-3600-AJ (see tech service bulletin #94, article #1429)
Cap - solid color - C7ZZ-3623-B (suffix = color; B,C,D,E,F,A,G)
Cap - woodgrain - C7ZZ-3623-H (suffix = color - but black is H as opposed to solid color cap of A, and others have asterisks)
On page 4656 and 4657, there are diagrams of the steering wheels and components. Here are the pertinent notations:
1. Picture P-5746 Standard steering wheel - there are three components noted
a. 3629 with an "*"
b. 13A811 also with an "*"
c. 13318 with a "dot"
2. Picture P-5747 woodgrain steering wheel - there are three components noted
a. 3629 with an "*"
b. 13A848 also with an "*"
c. 13318 with a "dot"
The "dot" note is for "Mustang with tilt wheel only". The asterisk "*" does not have a clarifying notation.
A few pictures up and the asterisk "*" notation is "supplied only in 13A805 horn button assembly", but there is risk in assuming that applies to the drawings as part of this discussion.
I think it is safe to say that the tilt wheel unique part is 13318. The first part installed on the steering column shaft is the spring 3520. 13318 is the second part, and is white plastic, not seen under the chrome components.
Part 13318 has a name of "Cam (turn indicator turn off)"
For the tilt column, the 75 MPC calls for C7SZ-13318-B and applies to full size Fords, Mustangs, and Thunderbirds.
Looking at the lower collar, part 3491 is "cover (steering wheel hub lower)"
Part C7OZ-3491-A applies to Fairlane and Mustang with woodgrain wheel. No alternative for tilt wheel.
Need to check the 67 MPC which would hopefully shed more light on this.
I'm attaching a picture of the cams, not sure which is which yet, and one might have some tabs broken off.
Edit - the cam on the left is for the tilt wheel application, and is indeed damaged. West Coast Classic Cougar has them.
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John, Please look into this more if you can. I have believed you are correct all along and have never found any evidence to support anything different except the center pad/hub also.
I had replaced my cracked & broken wheel WAY back and never saved anything from it, installing a Cougar simulated wood wheel , using the Mustang center so I no longer have my original. I bought an original wheel 6 or so years back and the seller didn't specify if it was tilt or non-tilt. It fits just fine and everything looks correct about it when comparing to any illustrations and photos I have found. I do not have a MP catalogue to look into.
Richard
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Just to dig this one out.....because I'm a bit uncertain reading the posts correctly.
Does a repro 67 Woodgrain Steering Wheel fits like plug & play to a tilt away column without any modification?
WCCC mentions, it does not....
Thank you.
Ralf.
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John, Please look into this more if you can. I have believed you are correct all along and have never found any evidence to support anything different except the center pad/hub also.
I had replaced my cracked & broken wheel WAY back and never saved anything from it, installing a Cougar simulated wood wheel , using the Mustang center so I no longer have my original. I bought an original wheel 6 or so years back and the seller didn't specify if it was tilt or non-tilt. It fits just fine and everything looks correct about it when comparing to any illustrations and photos I have found. I do not have a MP catalogue to look into.
Richard
I found this the other day from 60-68 MPC illustrations book, hope it helps
***modified***added second picture of part 13318, the one identified as being unique for tilt wheel applications.
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Just to dig this one out.....because I'm a bit uncertain reading the posts correctly.
Does a repro 67 Woodgrain Steering Wheel fits like plug & play to a tilt away column without any modification?
WCCC mentions, it does not....
Thank you.
Ralf.
I cannot speak for the reproduction Wheels to your question but I will say that an original Ford wheel will have the notch and the capability of adding the canceling Cam that is required to use any steering wheel on a tilt steering column.
John's latest image more or less verifies this as well.
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Oh, I know this one. ;)
That deluxe Mustang reproduction steering wheel will not fit the tilt - tilt away column in 1967, because there is a rolled lip on the top collar of those tilt columns. We have found that the repro deluxe Mustang wheel can be used if a 1967 Thunderbird upper collar is substituted. The T-bird upper tilt collars do not have the rolled lip.
To be honest though, there is still a little bit of a gap remaining, but still looks good and works with the collar swap.
1967 T-Bird tilt collar on left, 1967 Mustang and Cougar upper tilt collar on the right.
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Oh, I know this one. ;)
That deluxe Mustang reproduction steering wheel will not fit the tilt - tilt away column in 1967, because there is a rolled lip on the top collar of those tilt columns. We have found that the repro deluxe Mustang wheel can be used if a 1967 Thunderbird upper collar is substituted. The T-bird upper tilt collars do not have the rolled lip.
To be honest though, there is still a little bit of a gap remaining, but still looks good and works with the collar swap.
1967 T-Bird tilt collar on left, 1967 Mustang and Cougar upper tilt collar on the right.
I like your style. You get the "MacGyver" award.
Jim
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Yes, I read exactly this on WCCCs website ;-)
However, I'm not able to figure out the differences repro vs. original wheel that makes the need of using T-Birds collars for repros.
Cancelling cam is not part of the wheel itself. If I look to the rings + hole on the backside of the wheels, I do not see any differences.
May be I need new glasses ;-)
Any pics available?
Ralf
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The cancelling cam is found ONLY on the tilt columns (non-tilt wheels the cancelling cam are built into the turn signal switch itself, therefor the cam is NOT used)..The tilt wheel cancelling cam is the same (read as interchangeable) for standard "color-keyed" steering wheels and deluxe (woodgrain) steering wheels. Repo's of the 68-up version tilt column cancelling cam are available (at WCCC, NPD and many more) and presumably work on the 67's too, but I have not tried them. Original '67 cams are white plastic and the 68-up and repro's are black plastic.
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Glad I found this thread. I had thought about adding a deluxe steering wheel on my '67 (original tilt/tele column). So the reproduction wheel won't fit without using the Thunderbird collar, but an original '67 assembly-line deluxe wheel will fit without changing the collar?
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Glad I found this thread. I had thought about adding a deluxe steering wheel on my '67 (original tilt/tele column). So the reproduction wheel won't fit without using the Thunderbird collar, but an original '67 assembly-line deluxe wheel will fit without changing the collar?
Seems to be, yes.
However, I could not figure out, what are the differences between the original and repro and therefore I still do not know why repro is not fitting.
I have asked Rick from NPD as well, they do not know either. Have asked also other repro seller, no clue.
Even WCCC could not give me an answer, except to use TBird column, but no reason why.
Finally, if someone is willingly to sell his original deluxe woodgrain steering wheel (in nice condition, w/o cracks), I would be glad to buy it.
Thx
Ralf
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Even WCCC could not give me an answer, except to use TBird column, but no reason why.
Thx
Ralf
Ralf, we simply don't know, because the 1967 Mustang Deluxe steering wheel was not available on a 1967 Cougar.
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Has anyone figured out any more info on this? I have a tilt coming and was planning on using a repop deluxe wheel. If the thunderbird collar works, is something slightly off on the lower wheel trim collar? Hmm, maybe I need to pick up an original lower collar to compare, or ask someone to measure theirs. Thoughts?
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I have used the reproduction (ACP) wood grain deluxe steering wheel on a few customers factory tilt column cars with no issues at all. No gaps no rubbing etc. Maybe these cars were the exceptions to the rule? You will need to add the turn signal cancel cam to the back of the wheel that is also available in reproduction. And personally, while not correct, I think the standard wheel horn pad looks much better than the correct hard to find pad for the wood grain wheel. I know....not concourse but it looks better to me! Paul
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Thanks Paul! I saw that Scott Drake says theirs is not recommended for the tilt/tilt away, and after this thread I just assumed I would need to figure out what doesn’t fit and fix it. I’ll have to see who caries the ACP wheel to start with. Since mine isn’t late enough to have the short shaft steering box, I’ll have to figure out which one I need. I see there are 1” and a 1 1/8” sector shaft versions so that will be my next task.
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I purchased the repro deluxe wheel with the horn ring and collars for my 67. Installed them on my orginal tilt column and have had no issues. The top coller on the steering column is the correct one for a Mustang with the rolled lip. I also have 2 lower collars (chrome part of steering wheel assembly) off of orginal deluxe sterling wheels and even though they do not have part numbers on them, I can not measure or find anything that is different from the repos. This has been my experience.
John
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I’m trying to assess the difference between the standard C6OZ-3520-A steering wheel spring and the tilt C7SZ-3530-A. The MPC lists both. The assembly manual infers that only the tilt gets a spring.
The third picture has a known tilt C7SZ spring on the right. The spring in the left is not known. If the standard/non-tilt wheel came with a spring, can someone reply with a picture and dimension?
Thanks, John
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The difference is roughly the thickness of the cancelling cam. Not saying that is the answer, but maybe.
The spring is needed to keep the bearings in the upper knuckle on a tilt.
Tony Augustine is the Ford tilt repair and expert these days. He is in Missouri
alisatonyaug@aol.com is his email.
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As far as I know, the non-tilt wheels also have springs, although the two are different. Attached picture (for which you'll need to zoom in) , while not the best, is of my original non-tilt column, in which the spring appears to be there, just as the MPC's note that it should be. Of course, unfortunately, I can't give you a better picture or dimensions, since you know where it resides.
I think the problem is the wording in the Assembly Manual. Where it notes "For Dual Action Tilt Only", with the triangle symbol for the footnote. As I read this after several times, it means that the spring is part of the tilt column assembly itself, as opposed to a separate "loose" part that can be put on during assembly of the non-tilt column ; not that a spring is only for the tilt column.
Just a thought.
Bob