ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: 67gtasanjose on December 04, 2014, 08:35:01 PM
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PURPOSE OF THREAD: to establish production date changes and variances of the 1967 running changes at the three assembly plants in the United States, using as many images as we can obtain, preferably of unrestored 67 Mustangs or Cougars (though all examples are acceptable to post) With all the recent discussions on vacuum canisters, I thought we might collect these images without a lot of dialogue surrounding them. Like Sgt. Friday says on Dragnet..."Facts, only the FACTS!"
I realize some discussion will likely occur but if we can keep it to a minimum it may help avoid confusion. I encourage any club judges such as MCA, SAAC as well as any other club judges (present or past) to participate WITH COMMENTS as much as required to establish the FACTS of these running changes.
The intentions are to take the collected data and provide a Library document to assist others in a clear restoration guideline to their example, using a few selected images as a reference guide.
Please answer as many questions as possible that apply to the example you are posting images of.
QUICK QUESTION/ANSWER SHEET for the survey:
67 Mustang __ or 67 Cougar __
Production Date:__/__/__
Assembly Plant? Dearborn__ San Jose__ NJ__
Consecutive VIN# (first 3 of the last 6 digits minimum) ___,XXX
UNRESTORED? yes__ no__ unknown__
Year of Purchase ____ (how long have you had your car?)
Factory Air Conditioning? yes__ no__
Tilt-Away Column? yes__ no__
Speed Control? yes__ no__ Factory Installed? __
Location of mounting: RH (passengers side) Hinge Area (under hood) __
RH (passengers side) Rear Apron (inside fender well) __
Beneath Battery, on Bracket __
OTHER (please explain)______________________
Cougar Headlamp Canister (where)_____________
Quantity of canisters present: __
Any other questions we should be asking? Let me know.
My answers to the survey:
My IMAGES: (updated 12/6/14)~Perfectly match A/C San Jose images Jeff Posted below
67 Mustang
11/2/1966 (scheduled build date 11/01/1966)
San Jose
#127,4XX
Unrestored (but under restoration)
owned since 1978
Factory AC
Tilt-Away
RH Hinge Area
Oblong Canister: one large port, one small (known as early design)
NO 2nd canister present, no signs of it being there
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We'll have to see how it goes and adjust or modify our post (rather than add a new post) to fit where every it leads us -
Would suggest RH change to PS or passenger side. Just a pet peeve since it is less confusing for some
Some of its going to be difficult for me since I've got just pictures. Would expect allot of black or "I don't know" responses
Here we go- I will leave out about 50% of what I've got - leaving cars that have been restored, just mounting holes and such out this first pass.
We may need Scott's help on the Cougars since I don't have a cross reference between VINs and projected build dates on those cars
Sorry for so many comments as I know you want - just the facts in this thread ;)
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SAN JOSE
Note: One or more may be from earlier threads
67 Mustang
Projected build date - 9/13/66
San Jose
#7R01C1038xx
Factory AC
Passenger Side Hinge Area
No forward PS canister visible
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-051214234404-27961080.jpeg)
______________________________________________
67 Mustang
Projected build date - 10/5/66
San Jose
#7R02S114xxx
Factory AC
Passenger Side Hinge Area
No forward PS canister visible
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-051214234410-2800608.jpeg)
______________________________________________
67 Mustang
Projected build date - 10/7/66 (real build date 12/20/66)
San Jose
#7R03S115xxx
Factory AC
Passenger Side Hinge Area
No forward PS canister visible
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-051214234412-28021167.jpeg)
______________________________________________
67 Mustang
Projected build date - 10/11/66
San Jose
#7R01S116xxx
Factory AC
Passenger Side Hinge Area
No forward PS canister visible
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-051214234405-27971512.jpeg)
______________________________________________
67 Mustang
(real build date 11/10/66)
San Jose
#7R01A130xxx
Factory AC
Factory Tilt
Passenger Side Hinge Area
No forward PS canister visible
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-051214234354-27891067.jpeg)
______________________________________________
67 Mustang
Projected build date - 11/22/66
San Jose
#7R01A1394xx
Factory AC
Passenger Side Hinge Area
No forward PS canister visible
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-051214234357-27911071.jpeg)
______________________________________________
67 Mustang
Projected build date - 12/28/66
San Jose
#7R01C159xxx
Factory AC
Passenger Side Hinge Area
No forward PS canister visible
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-051214234358-27921879.jpeg)
______________________________________________
67 Mustang
Projected build date - 1/3/67
San Jose
#7R01C162xxx
Factory AC
Passenger Side Hinge Area
No forward PS canister visible
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-051214234400-2793131.jpeg)
______________________________________________
67 Mustang
Projected build date - 1/21/67
San Jose
#7R02C172xxx
Factory AC
Passenger Side Hinge Area
No forward PS canister visible
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-051214234409-2799695.jpeg)
______________________________________________
67 Mustang
Projected build date - 2/26/67
San Jose
#7R01C186xxx
Factory AC
Passenger Side Hinge Area
No forward PS canister visible
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-051214234401-27941694.jpeg)
______________________________________________
67 Mustang
Projected build date - 3/2/67
San Jose
#7R03C188xxx
Factory AC
Passenger Side Hinge Area
No forward PS canister visible
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-051214234411-2801878.jpeg)
______________________________________________
67 Mustang
Projected build date - 4/5/67
San Jose
#7R01C195xxx
Factory Tilt
No Passenger Side Hinge Area
No forward PS canister visible
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-051214234403-2795352.jpeg)
Let me know if this does not fit what you were planning for the thread
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Wasn't the canister mounted under the spring on the apron only used for A/C or was that type used for tilt also when A/C was present? I have seen the coffee can reservoirs used for tilt and no A/C. Is that the pattern that the pattern people are seeing or not?
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Wasn't the canister mounted under the spring on the apron only used for A/C or was that type used for tilt also when A/C was present? I have seen the coffee can reservoirs used for tilt and no A/C. Is that the pattern that the pattern people are seeing or not?
May be we will know or have a better idea once we collect and share all the data There is a "coffee can" style sometimes found on the battery box and one that is found on the passenger side rear inner fender/apron
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Jeff do I understand that your last picture was a tilt with out a any can? If so it could not have worked as Ford intended.
Marty
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I wonder if we shouldn't number each image for any related discussion to prevent confusion.
On the image with Projected build date - 11/22/66, San Jose, #7R01A1394xx, Pictured is a suspicious looking check valve. I have seen those valves before, but I am not sure it is correct for this application.
"Judges"... Please provide input on this item for the sake of clarity. I do know the hoses on the same side of this check valve are pass-thru, meaning the check valve is not between those two of the three hoses seen in the image.
Another image looks to have incorrect data (vehicle options) provided. That image is of the "Coffee Can" style canister with the built in check valve. The provided information (presently) states: 67 Mustang, (real build date 3/27/66), San Jose, #7R01A194xxx, Factory AC
, Passenger Side Hinge Area, No forward PS canister visible.
This vehicle clearly does NOT have Factory A/C. It may be possible to have a dealer installation or aftermarket but the blower motor cannot be seen under the hood of a Factory Installed A/C system.
Last, I have updated the title of the thread to include "...with any Related Vacuum Parts/Hoses" since often they are seen in these images.
Richard
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Removed the one data entry above that was obviously not a factory AC car - and pictures did not provide it it was a tilt car
Jeff do I understand that your last picture was a tilt with out a any can? If so it could not have worked as Ford intended.
Marty
Marty only showing that on that particular car there was no rear mounted canister in the pictures. Have none of the front battery tray area.
"Judges"... Please provide input on this item for the sake of clarity. I do know the hoses on the same side of this check valve are pass-thru, meaning the check valve is not between those two of the three hoses seen in the image.
Believe #7R01A1394xx is an aftermarket replacement but the other three examples with the check valve look like what I'm seeing. Have additional pictures showing just the hose and valve but in some they are further to the drivers side it appears
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Next batch - 67 Dearborn Cougars
______________________________________________
67 Cougar
Projected build date - 11/22/66
Dearborn
#7F91C5288xx
Factory AC
Factory Tilt ?
Passenger Side Hinge Area
No forward PS canister visible
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-061214181255-28132114.jpeg)
______________________________________________
67 Cougar
Projected build date -1/9/67
Dearborn
# 7F91A5511xx
Factory AC
Factory Tilt ?
Passenger Side Hinge Area
No forward PS canister visible
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-061214181253-28111139.jpeg)
______________________________________________
67 Cougar
Actual build date - 2/6/67
Dearborn
#7F93A5625xx
Factory AC
Factory Tilt ?
Passenger Side Hinge Area
No forward PS canister visible
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-061214181259-2816871.jpeg)
______________________________________________
67 Cougar
Actual build date - 2/6/67
Dearborn
#7F91A5629xx
Factory AC
Factory Tilt ?
Passenger Side Hinge Area
No forward PS canister visible
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-061214181254-28121168.jpeg)
______________________________________________
67 Cougar
Actual build date - 3/6/67
Dearborn
#7F93A5215xx
Factory AC
Passenger Side Hinge Area
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-061214181258-28151723.jpeg)
Factory Tilt
Passenger Side Battery tray
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-061214181257-2814442.jpeg)
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i][/u][/b] Like Sgt. Friday says on Dragnet..."Facts, only the FACTS!"
Sidebar question - what type of steering wheel was in the car they typically drove in the 67-70 seasons?
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67 Mustang
Projected build date 3/27/67
Dearborn
# 7F03C181434
Factory AC
Factory Tilt
Passenger Side Hinge Area
Forward Tilt Canister Under Battery
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Next batch - 67 Dearborn Mustangs
______________________________________________
67 Mustangs
Projected build date - 11/4/66
Dearborn
#7F01C1153xx
Factory AC
Factory Tilt ?
Passenger Side Hinge Area
No forward PS canister visible
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-091214173026-28322170.jpeg)
______________________________________________
67 Mustangs
Projected build date - 12/7/66
Dearborn
#7F01C1291xx
Factory AC
Passenger Side Hinge Area
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-091214173030-28352217.jpeg)
Factory Tilt
No forward PS canister visible/present
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-091214173027-28331258.jpeg)
______________________________________________
67 Mustangs
Projected build date - 12/17/66
Dearborn
#7F02C1373xx
Factory Tilt ?
No forward PS canister visible
Factory AC
Passenger Side Hinge Area
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-091214173035-28381916.jpeg)
______________________________________________
67 Mustangs
Projected build date - 5/23/67
Dearborn
#7F01C2045xx
Factory AC - No
Factory Tilt
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-091214173031-2836963.jpeg)
______________________________________________
67 Mustangs
Projected build date - 5/??/67
Dearborn
#7F01C24xxx
Factory AC
Factory Tilt ?
Passenger Side Hinge Area
No forward PS canister visible
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-091214173024-28311427.jpeg)
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67 Mustang, S code, GTA option
built 10/29/1966 Released 11/01/1966
San Jose assembly
7R01S129XXX
unrestored (died in 1978/79 and hasn't run since)
Bought in July 2011 (96,000 miles)
A/C? yes
Tilt? Yes
Speed control? no
Canister is at the right hood hinge
One canister. No evidence of any canister or mounting near or under the battery area
Photo is similar to the others
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67 Mustang, S code, GTA option
built 10/29/1966 Released 11/01/1966
San Jose assembly
7R01S129XXX
unrestored (died in 1978/79 and hasn't run since)
Bought in July 2011 (96,000 miles)
A/C? yes
Tilt? Yes
Speed control? no
Canister is at the right hood hinge
One canister. No evidence of any canister or mounting near or under the battery area
Photo is similar to the others
I like your example, along with Marty's example (If memory serves, his was actual built 11/4/66), we are narrowing down the window quite a bit for "original" build details on my 11/2/66 example.
This image and information lends to the notion that EARLY built 67's with AC usually DID NOT have the 2nd canister under the battery tray if they also had the Tilt-Away option.
I understand (possibly stated in another thread, that I cannot recall what thread right now) that there was information stated in some sort of literature from Ford mentioning that items were NOT supposed to share vacuum sources with other options. (I believe Marty R. had uploaded an image of the memo or article) With that knowledge, that suggests that the engineers felt there was an issue with the sharing of the sources. A date off of that image might help identify when they wrote it and a date would possibly help determine and/or narrow assembly line variations as well.
Roddster, if the vacuum hoses look to be unmolested, can you get images of the under dash AND underhood routings of the hoses? Maybe also a close-up of the hoses (green with white stripe) themselves, preferably cleaned off a bit to help identify the color markings?
I will likely be in touch with you in a PM soon, but I have to leave for work now. I might need to edit this since I have not proof read it yet.
Richard
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That's a good idea about the under dash parts, I would also be interested in seeing the vacuum release valve details as well.
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Here is a more detailed photo of that vacuum canister. My research from the Ford MPC shows that to be Ford part number C7ZZ-19A566-A. The MPC specifically states that it is for integral A/C, but not for use with the Perfect Circle brand of factory speed control. Note 2 different sized vacuum nipples.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w115/CougarCJ/IMG_1210-1028_zps4cb3014d.jpg) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/CougarCJ/media/IMG_1210-1028_zps4cb3014d.jpg.html)
Besides 1967 Mustang and Cougar, I think that I have seen the previously posted tilt vacuum canister (mounted under the battery tray) also installed on 1967 Ford Thunderbirds. To my knowledge they were the only other car built by Ford to have tilt and break away steering columns. I specifically say 'break away' because Lincoln and Thunderbird had a different 'slide away' column in 1966, and possibly earlier.
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I have been looking through all these picture I could get, but I still have not seen a late New Jersey car, like mine (April 27, '67), with A/C and tilt. Anyone seen one of those?
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I have been looking through all these picture I could get, but I still have not seen a late New Jersey car, like mine (April 27, '67), with A/C and tilt. Anyone seen one of those?
I have not seen a late NJ built but with all of the images I have seen so far, but using the research I have done to date, all later cars (like yours, with AC and tilt) seem to follow the same assembly procedures regardless which plant they were built so I believe you will be looking for the style pictured in all of the later built cars with both AC and Tilt, one under the battery on a bracket and another up in the passengers fender well above the tire not under the hood. Two hoses going into each canister. The lower canister would have two 1/4 inch nipples and the upper canister would be one with 1/4" nipple and the other with a smaller nipple.
Richard
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Thanks, that is the setup I am going with, but still curious about the existing single port can under the battery tray. The holes I have for the port and the two bolts that hold the can in on the back side of the apron sure do look punched and not drilled, and the previous owner since 1981 said he did not change anything from how he got it, so if altered must have been done early and with some skill.
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Thanks, that is the setup I am going with, but still curious about the existing single port can under the battery tray. The holes I have for the port and the two bolts that hold the can in on the back side of the apron sure do look punched and not drilled, and the previous owner since 1981 said he did not change anything from how he got it, so if altered must have been done early and with some skill.
You could leave it for now and await any updates that may or may not come in to support it being original. Be prepared to answer at judged events of the situation pending and should you get "dinged" at least you'll understand why. My 67 seems to be some sort of albatross of sorts and in a few areas, doesn't fit the mold either. Many of which I am not changing. Some things I am willing to adjust to fit in. Likewise, when you feel strong enough to believe it IS the way it came, why should you be required to change it...I agree.
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Here is a picture of the tilt canister mounted under the battery tray for one of my projects.
I am now of the opinion that the early 67 that had both AC and tilt shared the same Large canister and used a in line check valve. The Ford instruction for the install of the speed control bare this out. I am not sure if the tee would have been on the firewall or under the dash.
The cars built after February 67 used the smaller AC canister that mounted through the apron and had the internal check valve. If they also had a tilt column that canister mounted under the battery tray as pictured.
Marty
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Marty, both cars I've taken apart like this had the tee under the dash. These were Nov and Dec 66 cars.
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Marty, both cars I've taken apart like this had the tee under the dash. These were Nov and Dec 66 cars.
John, do you have a picture of the "T"? The best I can figure is the "T" would be in the 1/8" supply line going from the LARGE oblong canister to the AC controls, but is that correct? Wouldn't that be sized strange? 1/8" line stepped UP to 1/4"?
Here is a picture of the tilt canister mounted under the battery tray for one of my projects.
I am now of the opinion that the early 67 that had both AC and tilt shared the same Large canister and used a in line check valve. The Ford instruction for the install of the speed control bare this out. I am not sure if the tee would have been on the firewall or under the dash.
The cars built after February 67 used the smaller AC canister that mounted through the apron and had the internal check valve. If they also had a tilt column that canister mounted under the battery tray as pictured.
Marty
Glad you came around Marty, and the Speed Control Installations did look like the "smoking gun" that sure looked to prove it to me also.
I gave up the search for the elusive canister mounting bracket that day :)
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I would like to see that tee as well and where it is located.
Two things still bug me about this, the first is that the manuals were printed months before many of these cars with the large canister were built and yet the two small canisters are shown. The statement that no other devices should share vacuum lines was from the 67 assembly manual showing the two canister system. It must have been Fords intention to go the two canister way from the start but a supply or other problem held it up for a few months.
The second is supplying two systems with a 1/8 vacuum line especially where the tilt is calling for a 1/4 for it own.
I still think we are getting closer on figuring out what really happened.
Marty
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I would like to see that tee as well and where it is located.
Two things still bug me about this, the first is that the manuals were printed months before many of these cars with the large canister were built and yet the two small canisters are shown. The statement that no other devices should share vacuum lines was from the 67 assembly manual showing the two canister system. It must have been Fords intention to go the two canister way from the start but a supply or other problem held it up for a few months.
The second is supplying two systems with a 1/8 vacuum line especially where the tilt is calling for a 1/4 for it own.
I still think we are getting closer on figuring out what really happened.
Marty
+1 on this...100 percent.
What I know about MY EXAMPLE is that the Tilt column was disconnected when I got it at 10 years old (1978). First, I know I DID NOT remove a canister from the battery tray. I do remember re-working all the hoses & replaced the leaking check valve and repaired the vacuum pull diaphram to the column to get it all "working" circa 1979. I used a check valve from a Cougar or T-Bird with a double nipple on the reservoir side of the check valve to tie in the column and ran a seperate line through one of the existing holes in the cowl (heater hose opening for a non-AC car) That was good enough for me in that day and age. Today, I wish I had at least mentally kept track of what I replaced that day. Like many others, if ONLY I had kept what I threw away! :P
Marty: On the battery tray brace in your last image, I can see only a part of the date code. This "date" might play a part in some of the running changes if this particular battery tray is known to be original to the example you are working on.
Richard
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John, do you have a picture of the "T"? The best I can figure is the "T" would be in the 1/8" supply line going from the LARGE oblong canister to the AC controls, but is that correct? Wouldn't that be sized strange? 1/8" line stepped UP to 1/4"?
Yes I do. Please see the pics below.
As far as the size changes, I don't see that as a big deal, as long as there is enough energy available to get the job done. And there is with the design.
The tilt solenoid valve was shared with the Thunderbird, which as a luxury vehicle had a plethora of vacuum operated devices. The valve was not designed specifically for the Mustang. It could be (read: speculation) that the T-Bird had a larger (1/4") vacuum distribution backbone, and the tilt solenoid valve was designed to fit well there, and the carry across required some low cost adeptation.
As for location of the tee, you should be able to tell by the length of the hose that it was inside the pass compartment.
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This is a picture of the battery tray brace from my November 2,1966 (actual build date)
As you can see, the date stamping on it is about two months prior to the actual build date
There are no signs that there was ever a vacuum canister mounted on this early design 22 F battery tray and I absolutely sure I haven't replaced the battery tray ever in the 37 years I have had the car.
The holes were not punched into it like the later versions I have seen for the mounting of those canisters.
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Found an example on eBay, VIN 7R02C154403. Looks to have interior décor, tilt, 289, auto, no power disc brakes, no AC. Note the location and type of vacuum canister. Looks like a lot of work in the engine compartment, so the vacuum equipment may be bogus. Pictures here since the eBay pictures will not last the test of time. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Mustang-/262291239527?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3d11c6b267:g:ZFoAAOSwQYZWwS3y&item=262291239527
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Found an example on eBay, VIN 7R02C154403. Looks to have interior décor, tilt, 289, auto, no power disc brakes, no AC. Note the location and type of vacuum canister. Looks like a lot of work in the engine compartment, so the vacuum equipment may be bogus. ...............
I vote for someone being creative .
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Found an example on eBay, VIN 7R02C154403. Looks to have interior décor, tilt, 289, auto, no power disc brakes, no AC. Note the location and type of vacuum canister. Looks like a lot of work in the engine compartment, so the vacuum equipment may be bogus. Pictures here since the eBay pictures will not last the test of time. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Mustang-/262291239527?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3d11c6b267:g:ZFoAAOSwQYZWwS3y&item=262291239527
The Ebay car's scheduled build date looks to be a somewhat early build of 20K (October 20,'66) San Jose.
With no other vacuum options, the location under the passenger's hinge seems to be consistant at least to other findings. Somebody else (would need to go back in this thread) indicated a similar type and design for a non-AC tilt wheel car.
Agreed with Jeffs comment as far as likelyhood of being incorrect. A closer look would be required of the canister itself, the mouting fasteners and hoses to determine anythng of merit. A Marti Report on the car's options wouldn't hurt either.
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With no other vacuum options, the location under the passenger's hinge seems to be consistant at least to other findings. Somebody else (would need to go back in this thread) indicated a similar type and design for a non-AC tilt wheel car.
Might be that one in my post - same location - different IMHO vacuum canister. Just doesn't look like the tomato can version to me - like the one we see in the EBay ad
Just to add a link to another related discussion
https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=9499.msg56963#msg56963 (https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=9499.msg56963#msg56963)