ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Processes, Products & Techniques => Topic started by: Pete Bush on November 20, 2010, 07:42:46 AM
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Is there any evidence to suggest that Ford built any '66 export Mustangs with right-hand drive? Or that they would have prepared a right-hand drive vehicle differently, for conversion in the destination country?
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Is there any evidence to suggest that Ford built any '66 export Mustangs with right-hand drive? Or that they would have prepared a right-hand drive vehicle differently, for conversion in the destination country?
No evidence - that I've ever heard of. Typically (if required by law) care were altered in those specific country. Not too many required right hand drive only in the 60's
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Jeff,
I have reason to believe that the '66 export build sheet you sent might have a code for a right-hand drive. I'm talking about the one with the note on the bottom about a 22:1 Steering Ratio - Part C4ZR-3504-E.
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Jeff,
I have reason to believe that the '66 export build sheet you sent might have a code for a right-hand drive. I'm talking about the one with the note on the bottom about a 22:1 Steering Ratio - Part C4ZR-3504-E.
What brings you to believe that the car described in that buildsheet was a right hand drive car?
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The 4th box from the right on the bottom line is titled:
RT DRIVE - LS LAMPS - OMIT SL. BEAMS - TROP BATT
I believe that RT DRIVE stands for right-hand drive. There is a code in this box of 5. Most build sheets have no code in this category; including two other export cars I have on file. The code might designate one of the other category headings, but it's unlikely that it's the Tropical Battery. Then there's the special note on the bottom.
The remark on the bottom specifies a standard steering ratio, when all other build sheets don't bother to specify this baseline equipment. I'm not sure about the part number as I haven't been able to track it down yet. Why specify a baseline steering ratio unless there's something else that's unusual about it?
Front and rear springs, and shock codes are unlike any I've seen on other '66 cars.
There are six other Metuchen cars in Smart's Mustang Production Guide with the same DSO of 950284; all of them with owners in Sweden. All are A-codes. 3 are fastbacks and 3 are coupes. All were built on October 8th.
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........There are six other Metuchen cars in Smart's Mustang Production Guide with the same DSO of 950284; all of them with owners in Sweden. All are A-codes. 3 are fastbacks and 3 are coupes. All were built on October 8th.
Well we know that if various cars were ordered under the same DSO they should all have originally gone to the same area and likely all order by the same dealer. In that case a right hand drive car would not have been legal for that country
Can agree for sure that the box (if marked correctly would have been for right hand drive - remember these sheets were used for allot of different car models - not just for Mustang. Think is a long stretch with a number in a box and at least four different possibilities. Given it was likely ordered for Sweden I think is highly more likely that the 5 represents a change in the lights since that is something we see often (as a higher requirement) on European delivered Mustangs
The omit seal beams is odd as I'm not sure where (country) or why seamed beam headlights (if that is what ST beams is referring to) would be illegal in any specific country in 66 unless these same buildsheets were also made for use in other countries were Fords were built that year - a possibility IMHO
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“Well we know that if various cars were ordered under the same DSO they should all have originally gone to the same area and likely all order by the same dealer.”
If we look at the VIN’s in question here, we start with one ending in 318 and conclude with one ending with 491; so a potential of about 173 cars in the order.
“In that case a right hand drive car would not have been legal for that country.”
Sweden had legal left-hand traffic (USA has right-hand traffic) from approximately 1734, well into the 20th century, despite the fact that virtually all the cars on the road in Sweden were LHD. (One argument for this was that it was necessary to keep an eye on the edge of the road, something that was important on the narrow roads in use at the time). Also, Sweden's neighbors Norway and Finland already drove on the right, leading to confusion at border crossings. This not withstanding a right-hand drive car was not “illegal”, and in some cases might have been “more natural” in a left-hand traffic environment like Britain’s.
In 1963 the Swedish parliament passed legislation ordering the switch to right-hand traffic. The changeover took place at 5am on Sunday, 3 September 1967, well after the 1966 Mustang model year.
“Can agree for sure that the box (if marked correctly would have been for right hand drive - remember these sheets were used for allot of different car models - not just for Mustang.”
Some Ford vehicles were known to have been assembled as right-hand drives; the Cortina for one. It may be possible that the build sheet was composed to be utilized in those instances as well.
“Think is a long stretch with a number in a box and at least four different possibilities. Given it was likely ordered for Sweden I think is highly more likely that the 5 represents a change in the lights since that is something we see often (as a higher requirement) on European delivered Mustangs
The omit seal beams is odd as I'm not sure where (country) or why seamed beam headlights (if that is what ST beams is referring to) would be illegal in any specific country in 66 unless these same build sheets were also made for use in other countries were Fords were built that year - a possibility IMHO.”
Your statement here prompted me to do a little more research. Most low-beam headlamps produce an asymmetrical beam focused for use on only one side of the road. Headlamps for use in LH-traffic countries have low-beam headlamps that throw most of their light forward-leftward, while limiting the light range forward-rightward; the beam is distributed with a downward/leftward bias. Headlamps for RH-traffic countries have low-beam headlamps that throw most of their light forward-rightward, while limiting the light range forward-leftward; the beam is distributed with a downward/rightward bias. The beam thus lets the driver see obstacles and road signs on his own side of the road at a safe distance, without blinding oncoming traffic. The LS LAMP in this build sheet category might refer to the readjustment of the headlight beams to the left side. This would have been necessary for Sweden’s left-hand traffic pattern at the time that the Mustangs were delivered. When the traffic pattern in Sweden changed in 1967 to duplicate that of the USA’s, it likely meant that Swedish headlights had to be re-adjusted.
So, the 5 code we see in this box might certainly mean that the headlights were adjusted for a left-hand traffic pattern. Still, it’s curious that there’s a special notation on the bottom for an otherwise basic 22:1 steering box. And there are some strange codes for the springs and shocks on this particular export as well….
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Jeff & Pete
There was approximately 200 cars that were sent to Australia, converted to RHD and sold in 1965/6. As to specfic codes unfortunately I don't know of any. It is my understanding the conversation of these weren't the best.
regards
Herman
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Herman,
Information is a little sketchy on whether the Homebush plant performed the conversions, or an outside subcontractor. Also, whether Metuchen shipped the cars intact, or as "knock-down" units. Can you add to this?
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Pete
From what I heard they were converted in Homebush NSW and the conversion weren't the greatest. However I will talk with a few of our club older members and see what I can dig up for you.
Herman
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Thanks, Herman. I'd be interested to hear what you find out.
Pete
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I have since abandoned the idea of a right-hand drive build sheet, but here's a link with some info on right-hand converted cars in Australia. Apparently there were (48) 1965 and (161) 1966 Mustangs converted by Ford of Australia at their Homebush facility. No information currently exists as to how these were prepared in the States. It would be interesting to see one of these build sheets - if it survives...
http://www.hammar.dyndns.org/~mexmust/findings.htm
[bottom of page]
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Hi Pete
I have been trying to obtain additional information regarding these vehicles.
From what I have learned there was a special plate that was fitted to the vehicle after they had been converted which I am trying to find further information. However the were vehicles imported by the US Corp that remained Left Hand Drive as to the number I am uncertain.
Herman
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Thanks, Herman.
Please keep me posted of your progress. Pictures would be great!
Pete
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This may help as another starting point for further research?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aussiefordadverts/4956769362/
Unfortunately I have only a 69er Ford Australia VIN tag on file and a 71 as mentioned on Dave Hammars website already. But I'll go back and check what the second owner of the 71 found about those early RHD conversions:
Geoff found 4 early RHD cars and 2 70ies RHD converted by Ford AUS.
I invited him to join this thread.
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Hello, I own one of the cars in the registry and I have also seen lots of other cars with the same DSO here in Sweden.
I and a friend in the Classic Mustang Club, Sweden, has collected data of these cars for years.
We have info on cars from s/n 124312 to 12455x. from -312 to 380 or so there are only V8 Fastbacks all equipped the same. Thereafter we have V8 coupes and I have only seen one with automatic all others are 4 -speed.
124500 is a convertible - the only one in the batch (so far) and from 501 an onwards we have coupes with 6-cylinder engines.
Regarding the information on the build sheet about the steering box. The Mustangs ordered by Ford in Sweden were equipped in a certain way. All V8 cars had the quicker steering ratio. They also had stiffer suspension and shocks and also disc brakes. Furthermore they all had the export brace (also the six cylinder cars).
There were some changes due to our asymmetrical lights and the hazard lamps were disconnected.
I might add that I have never seen a right hand drive Mustang in Sweden so far, and the only other right hand drive cars I have ever seen were changed so that people with some disability still could drive (or were British imports).
br
Claes Wallin
Fastback 2+2
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Claes,
I've continued researching some of the info regarding this build sheet, and your data may help.
I've been perplexed by the notation on the bottom regarding the 22:1 steering ratio. Most sales literature by Ford and some early reviews (William Stone's for one), describe steering ratios of 27:1 for regular manual steering boxes and 22:1 for the quicker special handling package steering and cars equipped with power steering. However, the Ford shop manual and confirmations by the judges here indicate that the actual steering ratios were 19.9:1 and 16:1, respectively. If the build sheet specified a 22:1 steering box, then it was a slower, 5-turn lock to lock. The Falcons and Fairlanes appear to have used a 22:1 manual steering ratio. The part number of C4ZR-3504E might specify one of these units. I'm not sure why Sweden would have specified this modification.
Your comment regarding the stiffer suspension and shocks may be substantiated by the build sheet I have, as the codes found there are a little different than other Mustangs. And the build sheet I have does specify disc brakes.
I believe that the code 5 I found under the L.S. Lamps box, does indeed refer to the modification of the headlights for left-side driving. There's also a code 2 in the Battery box that I'm unfamiliar with.
If you don't already have a copy of this build sheet, please send me a PM and I'll email you a copy. It might aid your club's efforts.
I'd be interested, too, in hearing more about how the cars were specified for Sweden. Does the 02 84 DSO have a special meaning? Did any of the 6-cylinder car come equipped with the Sprint option group? Etc.
Pete
petebush@comcast.net
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Pete,
lets help each other to spread some light on these codes...
I just checked my copy of the AMA specifications for Passenger cars released by Ford and they mention the following figures for the manual gear ratio: "gear" - 19.88 and "overall" - 27.0., no of wheel turns: 4.64 For power steering it says "Gear" - 16.0 and "overall" - 21.7, no of wheel turns: 3.73.
That may be the reason both these figures are mentioned when we talk about the steering box ratios .
br
Claes
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Claes,
Your assistance is welcomed and appreciated!
Your excerpt from the AMA Passenger guide may indeed explain how a 19.9:1 gear box can also be referred to as a 27:1 overall steering ratio; same goes for the quicker 16:1 gear box.
The exact quote on the bottom of the build sheet I keep referring to is:
22:1 Steering Ratio - Part C4ZR-3504-E
It’s unclear from this information alone whether the instruction is meant to refer to the ratio of the steering box or the overall ratio.
If this is reference to the actual gear box ratio, then it’s entirely different, and slower, than the standard Mustang gear boxes of 19.9:1 and 16:1, but the instruction almost reads as if it’s calling out a specific part and not an overall condition.
If it’s in reference to the overall ratio of 22:1 then it’s the same as that used on Special Handling Package (SHP) equipped cars. However, other build sheets I have on file with the SHP do not call out a special notation for the steering. The coding of this feature is typically established in the shocks and springs categories.
Do the steering boxes you have access to in Sweden have a tag attached to them that might further identify them?
Pete
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Hi, the steering boxes on the Mustangs sold new here in Sweden has the correct code tag for the 22:1 ratio. I think it is specified on the build sheet because the cars did NOT have a complete Special Handling Package. They did not have the thicker sway bar but HD shocks and possibly stiffer suspension.
br
Claes
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Claes,
Thanks again in your help with all this code stuff.
The build sheet I have indicates that this car is a manual steering car. If it has the quicker ratio steering, the tag should be HCC-AX. The 3504 in the part number I cite above indicates a Gear Assy. – Steering as described by the 1965 – 72 MPC. However the part number does not coincide with those in the MPC. I do not have a copy of the single-year 1966 MPC to determine the part number used there. The decoder at: http://www.stangerssite.com/steeringboxtagdecoder.html indicates that “most” have a casting number of C4DR-A or C6ZR-A, but as we know, there were always exceptions at Ford. My experience with the build sheets I have in my possession is that if there was no note to the contrary, then standard parts were used. Seeing as we have a note at the bottom for a particular steering box, I would take this to mean it was different from other similarly equipped cars. The reason could be as simple as they were out of the standard-issue parts. It might also mean that the car was uniquely equipped, because it was ordered that way.
The codes for the Springs and Shocks are also different from others. The spring codes of [6] (front) and [8] (rear), are the only instance of these codes in my collection. Most build sheets I have with the SHP have a [W] for the front spring code; which I believe indicates part C5ZZ-5310-F RED 1413 lbs. The few build sheets I have for fastbacks with the SHP indicate rear springs with code [Z] which I’m taking to mean C5ZZ-5560-E K,L,S,Y F/B & Conv. Hi-Po 650 lb.
Standard issue shocks all seem to use a code [F]. SHP cars primarily use code [G]. And I have one instance of a code [4], and the code [9] found on your Swedish car. I’m still in the process of collecting information about the different types of shocks available for 1966 so I can determine specific part numbers and applications.
As long as we’re talking here, there are a couple of other peculiarities. One is the code [2] under the Battery heading. Almost all build sheets I have use code [1] in this heading to indicate the optional 24F battery. I have two instances of a code [2], yours and a Dearborn K-code car destined for Lansing, MI. I have been unable to determine the meaning of this code. Might there be something related to the Headlamp Cov. ?
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Pete, I am sure the special steering gear was ordered as all Swedish 65/66 V8 cars had it. Power steering was not on the standard equipment list in Sweden so all I have seen have had the "AX" gear.
I have talked several times to an old Ford employee who remember that many things on the cars delivered to Sweden was not the standard combo. I.e the "red" springs indicating the SHP springs.
All V8 cars had disc brakes, and were much like GTs, minus the sway bar and the dual exhaust. All had export brace, even six cylinders...
As Ford in Sweden could not meet the demand, some dealers did their own import from different NJ dealers. These cars often miss the export brace but have most of the other equipment, especially the disc brakes.
Regarding the battery code I would assume a 24F battery or similar Swedish version as all cars had the short battery clamp.
br
Claes
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In the Mustang Production Guide Vol. 1, there are six Swedish cars between #124297 and 124645. You say your research starts with #124312 and ends sometime after 124501 with at least one 6-cylinder car. Looks pretty close to 200 cars in the order. How many 6-cylinder cars are accounted for in your registry? Did the 6-cylinders use the same steering box and suspension upgrades? Did all have the 0284 DSO?
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Found this in a Australian Super Car magazine 1984.
Ford Australia imported 48 1965 Mustangs to coincide with the release of the Mustang bred Falcons.
These Mustangs were converted here (Ford Broadmeadows -Aust) at the Ford plant to Right hand drive and subsequently sold.
According to Ford Australia the easiest way of telling if it was an Aussie stang is by checking the I.D. plate inside the right hand door, it should carry the words Ford Australia, also on the kickplate where the Ford logo appears the same wording should also be included, another area is the shocker towers within the engine bay, here an aluminium I.D plate is located with the words Ford Australia.
There is confusion with in Ford -due to no real records being kept-
The magazine editor said that the only identifying tag he could find which tied it to the 48 vehicles released by Ford was the shocker tower I.D. tag, there was none on the kick-plate and the door I.D plate carried the words manufactured by Ford U.S.A, perhaps Ford Australia decided to drop the idea o including their own door and kick-plate tags early in the conversion of stangs and only added the shocker tag.
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Pete, I have six bangers up to 550 something iirc. I have only seen one convertible (#500) and all after #500 are six cyl coupes.
(I have the book U speak about and I can't understand why I missed those cars in the ends of the series?! gotta look tonite).
My current car is 124370 and I have also owned -342.
Also, I forgot to say that all V8 cars have console and Rally Pac :-)
Claes
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Correction - six bangers up to 593...
Also the first you refer to in Jim Smarts book is a Tennessee car and the last is a New York car - so only six cars in the book. I have ca 150 out of 300 possible.
br
Claes
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Wow! 300 possible cars in one order. Have you come across any other build sheets that we can compare?
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The magazine editor said that the only identifying tag he could find which tied it to the 48 vehicles released by Ford was the shocker tower I.D. tag, there was none on the kick-plate and the door I.D plate carried the words manufactured by Ford U.S.A, perhaps Ford Australia decided to drop the idea o including their own door and kick-plate tags early in the conversion of stangs and only added the shocker tag.
That's a little different story than what Hammar has on his website http://www.hammar.dyndns.org/~mexmust/findings.htm where he says that an Australian plate was affixed to the right-side door sill and the firewall. Do you have a photo of the shock tower tag?
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I may have answered my own question. While I was poking around Hammar's site I came across this photo. Judging by the bolt pattern, it looks like the right-side shock tower area. Registry says this was the conversion of 6T07C165347.
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That plate is the same used on the Aus Falcons of the same period. After reading this thread, I had a look at the hammar site and the invoices etc. My wife & her family are from Beaufort, and I have a Wotherspoon Ford dealer sticker on my 65 Falcon wagon. I will ask my father-in-law next time I see him if he knows any details of this car. He has definately mentioned a "local" Mustang from back in the day....
Many years ago, when I was looking to buy my 1st Mustang, I drove one of the Aus-Ford imported & converted 66 coupes. An older fella in Camperdown owned it and was very generous to allow a 21 year old stranger access to his car. I seem to remember it driving very nicely, was Springtime Yellow & had the luggage rack on the trunk. This was back in 93 when there were very few Mustangs here. Now, I see one at least once a fortnight (not including my own :) around the streets.