ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1969 Boss => Topic started by: chockostang on June 22, 2023, 08:27:17 PM
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Thank You for that, This has a BK pump (return points at the ground), so i'm sure it was not correct as the return from cooler has to make serious bends to attach to pump.
If I'm correct, the same pump end pressure will be same as 351W for 69. C7AA Aluminum cradle, Non hole flat steel, and the BK style indexing bracket???
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Thank You for that, This has a BK pump (return points at the ground), so i'm sure it was not correct as the return from cooler has to make serious bends to attach to pump.
If I'm correct, the same pump end pressure will be same as 351W for 69. C7AA Aluminum cradle, Non hole flat steel, and the BK style indexing bracket???
I believe so.
I have a BK pump here as well as an original 69 cooler. Just looking at them I do not see how the return hose would work especially with the long leg of the 69 cooler vs the 70 style.
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That is what this has. A BK pump which means the cooler hose has to attach to the down pointing return on the pump, make a 180 turn to get to the cooler. Seems odd.
The manual says BF pump (return nearly straight back of pump). So is your pump and this pump wrong as they are are BK, and not BF?
Did the 69 B2 have both?
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1969 Boss 302 pressure hose at back of pump is a VERY hard to find piece! I have only seen 2 nos loose in over 35 years playing with mustangs. I have attached a photo
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More photos
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So Hopey has A BK pump, you have a BK, this one I'm rebuilding is a BK, then it stands to reason they all were BK's as the 351W had.
The literature in the above document must be incorrect as it states a BF pump.
Who wrote this document? FORD MPC --who is MPC?
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MPC---master parts catalog. written by engineers who never actually worked on the cars they designed.
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Well that damn sure explains it.
As most know I have stated it was the 60's, we lived it, the 60's were happy times, free thinking, free love, a free use for some of the mind altering things that were available.
I think most, a good many of the Ford engineers were free thinker that use LSD. SOMETHING had to make them do the many stupid things, changes they did.
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1969 Boss 302 pressure hose at back of pump is a VERY hard to find piece! I have only seen 2 nos loose in over 35 years playing with mustangs. I have attached a photo
Thank You Mike for pictures, very informative.
Dan
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I believe so.
I have a BK pump here as well as an original 69 cooler. Just looking at them I do not see how the return hose would work especially with the long leg of the 69 cooler vs the 70 style.
Thank You Hopey for info, pictures.
Dan
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MPC---master parts catalog. written by engineers who never actually worked on the cars they designed.
And list parts currently (at the time of printing) available that could be used to service Ford vehicles
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MPC---master parts catalog. written by engineers who never actually worked on the cars they designed.
Actually, no. It was written by clerks based on a lot of input from design engineers, sometime conflicting, well after the design were released for production, as design engineers were busy on the next years' production. Labeled "For Car Parts", but called in slang the " MPC", it was published roughly at the time of the introduction of the first vehicles of that model year to dealers and that was intended to be used by those dealers' service departments. Assembly line engineers also gave their initial input, and, as we have seen, made changes as the production year went on. There were new product prototypes made for publicity, Ford Marketing too - and remember, the Mustang was initially called the "Special Falcon". I have seen pictures of what is obvious to us, a Mustang, but labeled as a "Cougar".
Jim
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Here are pictures of the 69 B2 Pump end pressure.
Part number C9ZA 3A719 D, yes D.
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C9ZA 3A719 D
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Same hose of original 69. I can only post one picture at a time??
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Here are pictures of the 69 B2 Pump end pressure.
Part number C9ZA 3A719 D, yes D.
Dan,
That is an engineering number, not the Ford part number.
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What is the part number for this particular hose with this type fitting?
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What is the part number for this particular hose with this type fitting?
From a late 69 MPC. As a reminder for others the oil cooler *listed below the wo/oil cooler group shown below, was not an option nor available from the factory on production 69 Boss 302's, so can't explain why Ford would list it other than just an error/miscommunication. Since Ford was always consolidating parts to reduce the need for additional inventory we can't be certain that the part numbers shown are the exact ones that were installed on the line, even only a couple of months after production had ended. Guess another place to look is the Assembly Manual reprints but don't know if they list the application
Sorry don't have a MPS printed between May and Aug 69
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/6-240623224314-187711487.jpeg)
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Dan,
That is an engineering number, not the Ford part number.
That is a part number indeed - you can call it an "engineering part number", or "casting part number" but it is still a "number" on a "part". I've seen some Ford documents also refer to parts using the very generic "item number" terminology.
What it is not is the "service part number". The Ford "Parts and Accessories Catalog" (with varying names including, depending on the specific publication, the "Master Parts and Accessories Catalog" (see the attached and often abbreviated as the MPC) lists the service part numbers.
Sometimes the item number (engineering number, casting number, etc.) is one and the same as the service part number.
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From a late 69 MPC. As a reminder for others the oil cooler *listed below the wo/oil cooler group shown below, was not an option nor available from the factory on production 69 Boss 302's, so can't explain why Ford would list it other than just an error/miscommunication. Since Ford was always consolidating parts to reduce the need for additional inventory we can't be certain that the part numbers shown are the exact ones that were installed on the line, even only a couple of months after production had ended. Guess another place to look is the Assembly Manual reprints but don't know if they list the application
Sorry don't have a MPS printed between May and Aug 69
So that is saying a cooler was not a option??? This B2 has a cooler and hoses are certainly original.
Did Ford dealer install these? If dealer installed can it be considered original?
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/6-240623224314-187711487.jpeg)
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That is a part number indeed - you can call it an "engineering part number", or "casting part number" but it is still a "number" on a "part". I've seen some Ford documents also refer to parts using the very generic "item number" terminology.
What it is not is the "service part number". The Ford "Parts and Accessories Catalog" (with varying names including, depending on the specific publication, the "Master Parts and Accessories Catalog" (see the attached and often abbreviated as the MPC) lists the service part numbers.
Sometimes the item number (engineering number, casting number, etc.) is one and the same as the service part number.
B I N G O !
Someone else that understands.
Jim
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Thanks Jim. I guess I should since I designed a few Ford parts that are in the books.
Quiz: When it a service part number technically not for a part?
Answer: When it represents a kit (that is comprised of multiple individually serviced parts...and occasionally with some of those serviced parts that are assembled from several individual engineered parts, each of which have part numbers...)
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I believe the MPC is referring to with and without "POWER STEERING OIL COOLER". In the text for the 69F 302 "with oil cooler" the MPC includes line item part numbers for the bulk return hose and insulation used with the power steering oil cooler. The text for 69F 302 W/O oil cooler does not include those items. My extra NOS 1969 Boss 302 Power steering Pressure Hose is Tagged C9ZZ 3A719-C...... the engineering number stamped on the fitting is difficult to read (chokostang shows a photo of the eng # as-D). The length of this hose is definitely NOT 27 inches as the C9ZZ 3A719-A (69F 302 W/O Oil Cooler). If anyone would like detailed photos or measurements of installed system or loose NOS hose I can supply..... To my knowledge the C9ZZ-C hose has not been reproduced and is very difficult to find NOS or used!
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Thanks Jim. I guess I should since I designed a few Ford parts that are in the books.
Some of my "Ford" designs are in space, as in Ford Aerospace & Communications Corp.
Jim
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I believe the MPC is referring to with and without "POWER STEERING OIL COOLER". ......................
Were 69 Boss 302's with PS built without the oil coolers for PS ? If so, when and if we know, why?
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Yes, I have heard both versions, I never got this cleared up in my head for 20 years. See cars with BF pumps, "Owner says-That is totally original", 69's with Bottom radiator hose on Drivers side, steel cradle- "Owner===That is totally original-late 69".
I'm very convinced the PS option was a option on 69 using the C7AA Aluminum bracket, the steel support with no hole, the C9ZA 3A719 D numbered pump end pressure, the lower hoses same as 351W.Pump a HBA BK (Return turn 90 degrees straight down, and with a cooler.
Sure do appreciate all that chimed in here. Kerry Mcmann and I can discuss the situation.
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I am attempting to find a replacement for the power steering pressure hose for my 1969 BOSS 302, what I believe to be C9ZZ 3A719-C. I also understand form the forum that this part is extremely hard to find and is not to my knowledge being reproduced. Assuming NOS or used original cannot be located, what would you suggest as the most suitable alternative?
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I am attempting to find a replacement for the power steering pressure hose for my 1969 BOSS 302, what I believe to be C9ZZ 3A719-C. I also understand form the forum that this part is extremely hard to find and is not to my knowledge being reproduced. Assuming NOS or used original cannot be located, what would you suggest as the most suitable alternative?
Given the site and our focus I don't believe there is a suitable alternative. Would guess that your going to have to find or make something that will make the power steering work while you wait and search for something better
Going to add your post and thread to the other related thread on the same subject
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Often times, Boss 302 engines would have a designation of "Special", to differentiate them from the common F code 302-2V engines. (same as K code 289)
The G code Boss 302 engine, was introduced mid year 1969, we might not always find it in some versions of the MPC. I looked up the those hoses in my Mercury MPC. No listing for the Boss2 engine specific engine either. Posting findings from 1969 and 1970.