ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1969 Mustang => Topic started by: STAUBY38 on February 14, 2024, 05:42:05 PM
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Hello All, I have a set of original styled steel wheels I am looking to have re-chromed and I am running into the issue that all the chrome shops I have inquired with do not separate the center chrome section from the outer section or re assemble. As you are aware, the wheel is made in two part and riveted together. The center is chromed and the outer wheel is painted then assembled with large rivets. What I would like to do or have done is the wheel separated, the center re chromed and the outer section re painted. Then have it re assembled.
Does anyone know if someone does this or can point me in the right direction. If no one does this and there are so many styled wheels out there from back in the day, I was thinking of going into business restoring these wheels if I could fine all the stuff needed to do it. Obviously there are many factors to consider including the riveting process.
I spoke to expert chrome shops in CA & PA and both say they can separate and re chrome but not re assemble. That's the issue. Obtaining rivets and safely re assembling seems to be the issue.
Anyone have any resources they can direct me to?
Thanks!
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I have always heard it was a issue of product liability why none of the wheel shops will re rivet wheels.
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I'm just shocked after all these years that you can't find someone who restores them especially since pretty much everything else can be restored. Any ideas if you can get the rivets for them ?
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Some have gone to the extent (don't ask me who) to us domed allen head bolts to replace the rivets
Just reports and posts as a source of this
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Interesting ! Could possibly work. I need to find a machinist and see what they think about the integrity of one vs the other I guess
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Some have gone to the extent (don't ask me who) to us domed allen head bolts to replace the rivets
Just reports and posts as a source of this
What Jeff is reporting is cap screws being used in place of rivets to add more structural integrity. Craig Conley of Paradise Wheels has been doing that for decades. This is what he does in place of rivets when restoring original 69/70 Shelby wheels which used rivets. He is just one of several wheel mfg.'s over the years that has told me that insurance liability is what keeps them from using rivets. The difference with Craig using the cap screws is he is going through a steel rim and threading the cap screw into a already pre threaded aluminum center of the 69/70 Shelby wheel. I think it will be problematic if trying to do the same thing with the steel center of a styled steel wheel.
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Makes Sense. Its always the liability factor. The search goes on........... Bob Has Craig ever attempted the Styled Wheel ever that you know of?
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Try Mike at Valley Wire Wheel in
Van Nuy, Acton Ca. Not cheap but a true craftsman and sticks to his delivery dates. Give him a call to discuss. I guess he moved recently to Acton.
https://valleywirewheel.com/services-offered
He restored my 1970 small hole Magnums with the satin chrome centers, cut them apart, rechromed and welded back together. He also does wire wheels for pebble beach cars and according to his web page he can rivet two piece wheels.
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Makes Sense. Its always the liability factor. The search goes on........... Bob Has Craig ever attempted the Styled Wheel ever that you know of?
Not that I am aware .I doubt but you don't have anything to loose if you try.
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OK I had spoken to another shop in CA who said they would do the same thing however when I told them these wheels are not welded they said they would separate them but would not re assemble them due to the rivets. So I can get them taken apart and re finished but its the re assembly that's the issue. So far no one I have found does it and that's surprising to me that after all this time, no one has come up with an alternate repair. With all the OEM styled steel wheels out there from the 60's and 70's it seems like someone is missing a gold mine here. One shop said they could separate and replace the outer shell and attach the OEM inner section. That's the closest I've come to solving the issue....
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Thanks Bob Maybe ill give him a shout and run it by him..
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OK I had spoken to another shop in CA who said they would do the same thing however when I told them these wheels are not welded they said they would separate them but would not re assemble them due to the rivets. So I can get them taken apart and re finished but its the re assembly that's the issue. So far no one I have found does it and that's surprising to me that after all this time, no one has come up with an alternate repair. With all the OEM styled steel wheels out there from the 60's and 70's it seems like someone is missing a gold mine here. One shop said they could separate and replace the outer shell and attach the OEM inner section. That's the closest I've come to solving the issue....
Part of the problem is the expense to do the restoration compared to a new reproduction wheel. Typically the repro wheel retail cost is close to or less then the cost of restoration for a original wheel.Many people have opted for the repro wheel with the cost of nice reproductions along with a shorter wait time compared to restoration This fact lessens the incentive to go Gold mining by a potential MFG. Of course for those that want only original the restoration regardless of cost is the only solution. For a example Craig Conley when making up his very authentic (except no rivets) repro 69/70 Shelby wheels puts a weldable steel slug into the aluminum center casting when it is made and then welds the steel wheel to the steel slug of the aluminum center casting. It is apparently easier and more cost effective.
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A local wheel shop said that the problem was getting the wheel to balance. Think about it.
Jim
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One train of thought I have since I have Model A's also. The frame on a Model A is riveted together and a lot of folks use bolts if they replace cross members but bolts don't fill the hole completely so the components can be off just a hair. Whereas a rivet swells inside the hole and completely fills the hole so it can't move at all. I wonder if the center would be exactly centered in the rim if using bolts.
Just thinking out loud... :)
TOB
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Would you consider simply getting the entire wheel chromed? Once complete, figure out how to get the paint to adhere to the outer chromed surfaces? It seems to me that it would be easier to figure out how to "roughen-up" the outer portions of the wheel than it would be to safely re-assemble the halves.
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Would you consider simply getting the entire wheel chromed? Once complete, figure out how to get the paint to adhere to the outer chromed surfaces? It seems to me that it would be easier to figure out how to "roughen-up" the outer portions of the wheel than it would be to safely re-assemble the halves.
I have seen examples of when you chrome the entire wheel and center before being done on other welded rim to center wheels (66 GT350 Hertz wheels). The result is typically a different level of shine on the rim portion and the center portion where the two meet. The reason is that the chrome plater can not get to the small area where the two surfaces meet and prepare the surface in the same way as the rest of the wheel. This appearance of the chrome between the small area around where the two surfaces meet is substantially different and consequently highly visible in not a good way.
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Way too much risk involved with plating the whole wheel including the rivets, hydrogen embrittlement is a real concern.
Link to articles;
https://www.finishing.com/17/47.shtml
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What Bob's last post says is also what I was told. They cannot get down between the two parts thus making a less then high quality plating job. Ideally they need to be separated. The key is putting them back together. I am researching options. Many people I know want OEM wheels not repos and I get it. I'm kinda the same way... I have a set of both and I would rather restore the Ford Wheels.
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This is not a new story. This problem has been around for at least a decade now. Many have asked about and researched this subject. You are not the first. My experience has had to do with the riveted and the welded centers given the Shelby wheels that are my field of interest. The riveted situation has been a problem for about 15 years when some of the last specialty shops that did that closed up and sold all of their special equipment. The welded center has been a problem for 10 years or less in this case it was a matter of the shops simply refusing to do them. About three years ago I heard tell about a guy who got some Hertz Shelby magnums(welded center) that found someone in CA to weld them together but when another enthusiast got the contact info shortly after his wheels were completed found out that the company wouldn't do them anymore. I suppose you may still find someone to do it if you search hard and long enough. If you can get them separated and chromed maybe check some of these wheel repair shops that are franchised all over the US now to see if they are set up to do the welding. The problem which maybe or maybe not a problem that I wonder about is press fitting them in place straight and square after the chroming has added thickness to the surface of the rim .