Topic: Phosphating 101 -

[jwc66k]

To get the color for those hinges, did you use the Black Dip Pre-Treatment that LCW sells, or was that just the Phosphate?
If you recall, what kind of timing did you use for the hinge vs the spring?

Hinges are supposed to be natural, the springs are darker primarily because of the heat treatment process required.
Timing is difficult to state. In other words, experiment. It is dependent on your water (mine comes from the Sierra Nevada Mountains), the type of phosphoric acid used, the amount of phosphoric acid used, the temperature of the bath, with a 10 minute maximum (self imposed) bath time. There's also a minimum time to achieve a "natural steel" look, about one to two minutes. I'll use a couple of freshly bead blasted bolts as test subjects to determine what my current bath will do.
Hints:
1. Do all your "natural" parts first, the "Black Dip Pre-Treatment" parts last.
2. Don't do any phosphating if your air temperature is lower than 72F.
3. Air drying seems to be the best method to get rid of rinse water (aka, a dry day). Oven drying tends to leave "flash rust".
When I get finished with all I the phosphating I'm going to do, I pour off the cooled hot water pan into a 5 gallon plastic bucket and pour in a couple of cups of Borax - an alkali - into the acid bath to neutralize it. Occasionally, I will save the acid bath for use the next day - covered of course. I use Eastwood's metal black (which seems to be discontinued) but pour it into a plastic (Eastwood supplied) container for future use when done. I wind up with the concentrate and my diluted mix. It is not heated to work. I don't know if the stuff you have will function in the same way.
Storage of unused chemicals should take into consideration winter temperature. In Silicon Valley, freezing temperatures are very infrequent (and illegal     ).
Jim

[TonyFio]

Thanks Jim.
I'm in Southern California, so freezing temps aren't a concern here either. Although, the folks in Texas may have said the same thing a few weeks back!

[Bob Gaines]

I will pat dry with a old towel the items to minimize the possibility of flash rust while they all the way air dry. If you try to blow them dry with air pressure expect to see flash rust.

[67gtasanjose]

Richard,
I have most of the supplies put together to do some phosphating, including the LCW Manganese Phosphate Solution, so I'm almost ready to try my hand at this.
To get the color for those hinges, did you use the Black Dip Pre-Treatment that LCW sells, or was that just the Phosphate?
If you recall, what kind of timing did you use for the hinge vs the spring?

General question:
Can this stuff be stored long term after mixing and use and reused, or must it be left to evaporate and be disposed as mentioned?

I only used the phosphate solution for a shorter length of time to achievethe lighter color (as Jim indicated). I did store the solution but only needed it a few times over last year and it worked out ok being re-used.  I still need to dispose of it soon.

[TonyFio]

I only used the phosphate solution for a shorter length of time to achievethe lighter color (as Jim indicated). I did store the solution but only needed it a few times over last year and it worked out ok being re-used.  I still need to dispose of it soon.

Good to know. Thanks!

[jwc66k]

Posting this again because there are a lot of recent questions that have their answers in this thread.
Jim

[Al Bundy]

Great information in this thread.  I'm a novice when it comes to this process but I have done a couple things with good success.  It's nice to have the tips for dealing with things like bolts and screws which were going to be next on my list to attempt.

[rtate]

I'm getting ready to try my hand at this for my hood hinges and a couple of questions:

1)Is it ok to spray the hinges with a degreaser after bead blasting before phosphating ?

2) For the rinse can I just run the hinge under a tap or does dipping in a bucket do a better job ?

3)This is the product that I'm going to use mixed 4:1 , dose it look suitable ?

https://www.duracoatfirearmfinishes.com/zinc-phosphate-parkerizing-solution-p/zps.htm

4)I'm thinking 7-8 minutes in the bath ,does that sound right ?

[jwc66k]

I'm getting ready to try my hand at this for my hood hinges and a couple of questions:
1)Is it ok to spray the hinges with a degreaser after bead blasting before phosphating ?

No! The metal MUST be dry and clean. If you are in an area of the country that is humid, wait until a hot day in summer.

2) For the rinse can I just run the hinge under a tap or does dipping in a bucket do a better job ?

No. The bucket stops the phosphating process, rinses and cools the items. I HIGHLY recommend you do any phosphating when the air temperature is above 72F. Otherwise, you get surface rust. I found that air drying is the best method. Oven drying leaves surface rust, compressed air is not much better if you are in a humid environment.

3)This is the product that I'm going to use mixed 4:1 , dose it look suitable ?

https://www.duracoatfirearmfinishes.com/zinc-phosphate-parkerizing-solution-p/zps.htm

4)I'm thinking 7-8 minutes in the bath ,does that sound right ?

In any chemical process, do a test piece first. The "parkerizing" process is designed to get a maximum of protection and that results in a very dark finish, you want a lighter shade to replicate cold rolled steel. That means a couple of ounces of solution to a gallon of water. Timing is another factor. Two minutes may be too much.
DO A TEST PIECE FIRST.
Hood springs should be darker as they were heat treated.
Don't forget the WD-40.
Jim

[bullitt68]

No! The metal MUST be dry and clean. If you are in an area of the country that is humid, wait until a hot day in summer.No. The bucket stops the phosphating process, rinses and cools the items. I HIGHLY recommend you do any phosphating when the air temperature is above 72F. Otherwise, you get surface rust. I found that air drying is the best method. Oven drying leaves surface rust, compressed air is not much better if you are in a humid environment. In any chemical process, do a test piece first. The "parkerizing" process is designed to get a maximum of protection and that results in a very dark finish, you want a lighter shade to replicate cold rolled steel. That means a couple of ounces of solution to a gallon of water. Timing is another factor. Two minutes may be too much.
DO A TEST PIECE FIRST.
Hood springs should be darker as they were heat treated.
Don't forget the WD-40.
Jim

The hood hinges look like zinc phosphate and the springs look like manganese. That is how I did mine as well. The hood latch looks manganese as well

[jwc66k]

The hood hinges look like zinc phosphate and the spring look like manganese. That is how I did mine as well. The hood latch looks manganese as well

I just looked at my stock (again) and it's either manganese phosphate or the container says "contains phosphoric acid, 75 %". That last was from a product called "Rust-Mort". I used that because that was all that was available at the time. Even my Parkerizing solution is manganese based.
I get my finish "shades" with a low amount of mix and "timed" cooking  in the mix. REMEMBER. That bath is at least 190 degrees F. Boiling is better.
Jim
Here's a link to the preferred solution.

https://www.epi.com/phosphates/steel/#e-phos-630

You normally cannot order it direct. I get mine thru a "friendly" plating shop.
One more thing -

DO NOT TOUCH FRESHLY BEAD BLASTED STEEL WITH BARE HANDS

-Use clean, dry gloves or clean dry shop towels.

[rtate]

Thanks guys !
Back to the degreasing just for a minute,
Wouldn't the bead blasting process remove any oils that are on the hinges ?
If so then why degrease before bead blasting ?

and for timing, if i think it's too light a shade can I just put it back in the bath ?

[J_Speegle]

Thanks guys !
Back to the degreasing just for a minute,
Wouldn't the bead blasting process remove any oils that are on the hinges ? .......

Think the answer is that oil can and does get in the metal where blasting only deals with the surface

[rtate]

Also read that the phosphating process is complete when the bubbling stops.
Is that an accurate statement ?

Is distilled water better for the phosphating solution ?
I thought I read that somewhere...

[jwc66k]

Back to the degreasing just for a minute,
Wouldn't the bead blasting process remove any oils that are on the hinges ?
If so then why degrease before bead blasting ?
and for timing, if i think it's too light a shade can I just put it back in the bath ?

Be reasonable. The piece has to be dry to bead blast, and clean to phosphate. How you get to those stages is different for each part. I use kerosene, Berryman's B12, paint thinner and other solvents to get a part prepped for bead blasting. There is no single perfect preparation, the part needs to be CLEAN.

Also read that the phosphating process is complete when the bubbling stops.
Is that an accurate statement ?
Is distilled water better for the phosphating solution ?
I thought I read that somewhere...

Two "no" answers, and throw away the "somewhere".
Jim