Topic: What does Concours restored mean, exactly?

[C5ZZKGT]

-MY understanding is that it means in "as delivered" condition, as in when the original owner took the car from the lot or showroom for the very first time.

So....then the engine should run, all the guages should work, all the lights should work, steering wheel should be straight, charging system should work, ect, ect right? or is concours restored just for looks with no fluids in the engine, non working electricil systems, just for looks.........

[jwc66k]

-MY understanding is that it means in "as delivered" condition, as in when the original owner took the car from the lot or showroom for the very first time.

So....then the engine should run, all the guages should work, all the lights should work, steering wheel should be straight, charging system should work, ect, ect right? or is concours restored just for looks with no fluids in the engine, non working electricil systems, just for looks.........

The simple answer is - "in the condition the car came off the assembly line". I can't think of a concours event where a car was "dry".
Jim

[J_Speegle]

Concours restored (as evident in many ads and publications) means allot of different things to different people. Sort of like (for example) rebuilt, original, survivor, never altered, rustfree .... and plenty more

For me it can be restored to how that specific car was original delivered to the dealer, to the first customer, to a specific time or date or a number of other points.  In most cases (since we don't have the provisions to road test or dyno the vehicles) the presentation  does not include operations tests. Today most concours events are static displays.   Guess I would rather see a car with no fluids than one missing key parts or poorly rebuilt 

[ruppstang]

In days past the MCA use to do a tech inspection and the car had to operate. I think it was a good thing. But I do understand the time and personal that are required to execute that task.
Marty

[carlite65]

i went thru a few of those.................kinda miss them.

[ceswert]

Are there separate concours judging categories such as original and mostly original but restored to original condition as closely as possible?     

[priceless]

Are there separate concours judging categories such as original and mostly original but restored to original condition as closely as possible?   

  In MCA Judging you have a class called Division III Unrestored and a class called Division IV Thoroughbred.  Maybe what you might be referring to is Divisions I & II Concours Trailered and Concours Driven.  For more info, go to the MCA website: mustang.org.  Hope this helps.

[J_Speegle]

Are there separate concours judging categories such as original and mostly original but restored to original condition as closely as possible?   

Charlie - I don't believe any club has a class for half restored or half original cars other than a non-Concours class like daily driven or such

[svo2scj]

From the question (What does Concours restored mean?)
I would answer one way!

When you add the caveat line  So....then the engine should run, all the guages should work, all the lights should work, steering wheel should be straight, charging system should work, ect, ect right? or is concours restored just for looks with no fluids in the engine, non working electricil systems, just for looks......... I would answer another way !

FOR ME   Concours is the more to the finish of parts and the "total of all parts" from a presentation standpoint.   At a Concours de Elegance (like Meadowbrook, or Pebble Beach)  simply restoring a car - WITH WRONG FINISHES will get you nowhere. 

For us it can be little things like ribs on hoses, stamps on nuts or LACK OF REPRODUCTION parts.  It is VERY HARD to do a car this way - I found that somethings just can't be obtained. (in a ten year period, so you have to move on).    I had an NOS headliner to go with the original seats and carpet.   BUT it was stored in a musty basement for 35 years and was unusable !   I found that out the day the glass man was to arrive to install the headliner and glass.    What could I do - drive to NPD and buy a repro headliner so we could keep the appointment !

Another case are the door panels - my car was missing one.  When I obtained an original set - as a very high price to use  I didn't  notice that they were missed matched.   One dated before my car build, one WAY after !!    I couldn't bring myself to put them on the car.   (Since I was committing to the repro headliner I bought a set that same day)     MOST would have used the original and never told.   I didn't have any parts dated AFTER my car on it so I wouldn't !    (I think they are going to Carlisle)

Mark
P.S.     Storing cars , with or without oils and fluids isn't easy !    Cars leak, seals dry out and the thought of "peanut oil" is just more work ! (when you do want to drive a car)

[C5ZZKGT]

Guys, Thanks for all the replies and comments so far.
I'm just curious as to what one can/should expect when having a car restored professionally to concours trailered MCA specs?
should one expect everything to be mechanicly 100% operational and be able to if I wanted to just jump right in and drive cross country at night and in rain and cold and expect everything to work as it did when the car originally left the factory/dealers lot?

[C5ZZKGT]

In days past the MCA use to do a tech inspection and the car had to operate. I think it was a good thing. But I do understand the time and personal that are required to execute that task.
Marty

I think the MCA should bring back that policy even if it meant show entrys being charged more.

[C5ZZKGT]

i went thru a few of those.................kinda miss them.

I wish I had been around back then to see one done by pros.

[ruppstang]

I wish I had been around back then to see one done by pros.

On the MCA forum on the Judges only section I started a thread about a truly grand Grand  National Show with the best of the best cars shown on a earlier day. Might think of bringing  the Tech inspection back for those cars. But it all is in the dreaming stage now. Marty

[carlite65]

I wish I had been around back then to see one done by pros.

well they were not done by 'pros'. was done by host club members using a checklist. often some of them could not read.

[CharlesTurner]

Guys, Thanks for all the replies and comments so far.
I'm just curious as to what one can/should expect when having a car restored professionally to concours trailered MCA specs?
should one expect everything to be mechanicly 100% operational and be able to if I wanted to just jump right in and drive cross country at night and in rain and cold and expect everything to work as it did when the car originally left the factory/dealers lot?

In my opinion, this really has nothing to do with "concours", but everything to do about expectations between the owner and restoration shop at the beginning of the project.  Ideally, there is a contract before any work begins that both the owner and shop agree to.  The contract generally includes verbiage to the effect that the car will be operational at the time of delivery.  Most shops will stand behind their work for a certain time period or mileage.  After that, they generally will charge for any repairs (unless it was a blatant error on their part during restoration.)  Even then, I wouldn't think the shop would be liable if it wasn't written in the contract.

As seen by some of the replies, the term "concours" can have different meanings.  Even at MCA there are judges who are not clear on what the MCA definition is, even though it's stated plainly in the MCA rulebook.