ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: Angela on April 20, 2013, 08:52:18 PM
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I recently posted a question concerning the torsion bar clip on fastback deck lid hinges, passenger side. Thanks to all who responded, especially with the pictures! Having located a clip, I reinstalled the torsion bar and carefully inspected what happened as I opened and closed the deck lid.
While the deck lid would open properly, it would not close all the way. With the clip in place the deck lid would close to ~ 2" shy of latching when I would feel significant resistance. I noticed that the 3/4"wide X 5" long "bar" attached to the passenger side hinge (to which the torsion bar passes through before the tinnerman clip is installed) was hitting the hinge and prohibiting the deck lid from closing.
However, the original hinge actually has TWO (2) holes drilled in it where the torsion bar can pass through. Moving the torsion bar to the other hole (which is 1/2" further forward towards the front of the car) allows the deck lid to close all the way. That's the good news. The bad news is then the torsion bar is somewhat twisted because it's no longer in line with the location of the torsion bar mount on the driver's side of the car.
I dug through my spare parts and of the four spare hinge sets I own, I noticed that two of those spares also have the same two sets of holes drilled for the torsion bar to pass (passenger side). That means that of the five total original sets of hinges I own (one on the car, plus four spares), three sets have extra holes drilled for the torsion bar. What does that mean? Why don't ALL of them have either one hole or ALL have two holes? Was there a problem found during assembly on the line and then these parts were modified? Since I didn't drill any of these holes and didn't acquire the hinges from the same person, there's simply no way I can believe that it's coincidence that I'm finding this "feature" on multiple pairs of hinges.
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Picture may help explain
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Comparison of hinges
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Here's a pic of the bending of the torsion bar when the second hole is used (which does allow the deck lid to shut).
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What plant was your car built at and where were the hinges with the two holes produced?
Have never found, heard or seen hinges with multiple rod holes so not sure who did this
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And do date codes, if they exist on the hinges, shed any light on a running change date to the part....
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And do date codes, if they exist on the hinges, shed any light on a running change date to the part....
Oh they are there ;) have a bunch that I've recorded in my date code spread sheet
The stamping plant and time period might identify a change in practice if there were made that way rather than in assembly plant modification. ;)
IF we go with plant then we'll need to know the assembly plant your car was produced at to narrow down the search.
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Car was built @ SanJose, June 30, 1967
Hinges in the photos above with TWO holes are stamped:
7 01 W3
2 7 3W
Hinges in the photos above with ONE hole is stamped:
2 7 2W
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FYI, I also noticed that when the torsion bar is placed into the forward (towards front of car) hole in the passenger side hinge, the deck lid *will* stay fully open, but just barely. In this scenario it takes very little pressure to coax the lid to fall shut.
If the torsion bar is placed into the rear-most hole in the passenger side hinge, the deck lid won't fully close, but it stays upen very well, requiring much more force to get the deck lid to begin closing.
I really wish to understand the history behind the extra holes in the hinges. Has anyone else observed them?
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Looking at some drawings of trunk torsion bars 67-68 Fastbacks and Hardtops I noticed a small difference between the two. The Fastback has a single/one torsion bar and single connection points at the hinges. The Hardtop torsion bar is a dual rod setup requiring two holes in the right/passenger side hinge. Could you have the wrong hinge on that side ? Just a thought. Brian
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Car was built @ SanJose, June 30, 1967
Hinges in the photos above with TWO holes are stamped:
7 01 W3
2 7 3W
So apparently these are not original to the vehicle.
Looking at my pictures I could not find one with dual holes. (did check fastbacks built at other factories and 67 Shelby's)
Brian Conway post does lead me to another possibility - do you have a couple of passenger side hinges that some one tried to convert to use in a fastback by drilling additional holes
If this was attempted then the arm would have a hook designed into the shape/edge of the arm which your examples do not. Plus the base is very different between the body styles
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/67%20Mustang/67%20San%20Jose/PScoupehinge_zpsf0c1f746.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/67%20Mustang/67%20San%20Jose/PScoupehinge_zpsf0c1f746.jpg.html)
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Correct, the original passenger side hinge was damaged and although I kept it, I had to use a different hinge. The driver's side hinge is original.
Jeff, I do not understand what you've tried to describe above concerning modification of hinges. The hinges for each side of the car are uniquely shaped
and it's impossible to physically swap them to the opposite side of the trunk. I am 100% confident the hinge on the car is correct for the passenger side.
Note that not only do I have several other pairs of hinges to compare against, in addition to the date codes, each hinge is stamped "L" and "R". :-)
I appreciate the fact that you looked through your fastback pictures. I'm certain that there's some history behind these two holes..... given that I purchased
all of the pairs of hinges I have from different sources all over the country and have multiple examples of hinges with two holes with center-to-center
distances of exactly the same dimension. I also note that both holes on each example appear to have been "punched", not drilled. I'd be suspicious if one
hole appeared drilled and the other punched, but that's not the case here.
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Additional questions:
(1) Can anyone comment on the location of the hole or holes in their fastback passenger side hinge? Measuring from the rear most surface of the portion of
the hinge that mounts to the deck lid, what is the distance to the torsion bar hole(s)?
(2) If your fastback passenger side hinge has only one hole drilled/punched for the torsion-bar, does the 3/4" wide X 5" long rectangular "arm" crash into
the base of the hinge when the deck lid is shut? See above photo with red text and arrows.
(3) If you sight along the torsion bar as it is installed, does the torsion bar bend or bow from the middle bracket (screwed to the underside of the deck lid)
to the passenger side hinge? OR, does it run driver-to-passenger side fairly straight as an arrow? (see photo posted above)
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Perhaps this additional picture helps: It doesn't appear super bent/bowed in this photo yet appears worse when viewed in person. But you can see from this photo that if the rear-most hole is used, the bar will "straighten out"..... but the bad news is then the deck lid will not close. If the torsion bar is installed as shown here, the lid will close yet it's bent/bowed as shown and exhibits less force to hold the lid open.
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Could someone owning a fastback post a picture with their deck lid in the open position? A side-view would be helpful.... I'd like to understand how
far open the deck lid would have been when new. In other words, was the lid 90 degrees with respect to the trunk? Or was the lid open more than 90
degrees, closer to the rear glass? I think that information would also help me understand what's wrong with my hinges.
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Correct, the original passenger side hinge was damaged and although I kept it, I had to use a different hinge. The driver's side hinge is original.
Jeff, I do not understand what you've tried to describe above concerning modification of hinges. The hinges for each side of the car are uniquely shaped
and it's impossible to physically swap them to the opposite side of the trunk. I am 100% confident the hinge on the car is correct for the passenger side.
Note that not only do I have several other pairs of hinges to compare against, in addition to the date codes, each hinge is stamped "L" and "R". :-)
More in respect to Brian's post about using and or modifying a coupe/convertible hinge to work on a fastback
Will try and measure some passenger side 67 trunk hinge arms this week when I go to the shop. Think they have 6-8 in right now for body work
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Thanks Jeff, pictures would be great, especially detail of each hinge and the torsion bar. :)
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OK, this, IMO, is really cool. After searching Google images forever, I gave up and tried Bing.com -->images. I found another 1967 fastback and you can clearly see that the passenger side deck lid hinge has TWO holes in it, just like I'm seeing with mine.
Further, as shown in this photo of someones fastback, the forward-most torsion bar hole is being used..... which is 3/4" further forward than the location drilled/punched into hinges which only have one hole. Additionally, just as I see occurring in my car, you can see in this photo that when this forward hole is used, the torsion bar appears bent as it passes left to right across the bottom of the deck lid.
I didn't photoshop this..... use Bing.com with search string "1967 mustang fastback trunk hinge"
OR image can be found at http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/photogallery6/1967-mustang-fastback-2-plus-2-trunk.cfm
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I had a chance to take some pictures of a 67 Fastback deck lid hinge/torsion bar today. Brian
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Awesome, thanks Brian!!! Another piece of evidence that suggests hinges with both one and two torsion bar holes was indeed used. :-)
I notice that your car uses the forward-most hole in the passenger side hinge, yet the torsion bar doesn't appear to bow very much from the center bracket (screwed to the middle of the underside of the deck lid) to the passenger side. Very nice.
Thanks again!
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Not my car. Saw the car at a show in Coronado today and the owner was happy to let me take some pictures. He did mention that the torsion bar was a bit difficult to install. Brian
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Did check at the shop the other day unfortunately they are all apart so no pictures of hinges with rods in place :( All had single holes in the passenger side hinge - and one was using 68 hinges
As for shots with the trunk lid opened - here is what I've got - non Shelby for 67
Hope it helps in some way
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/67%20Mustang/67fbsidetrnk_zps0b719d28.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/67%20Mustang/67fbsidetrnk_zps0b719d28.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/67%20Mustang/67fbsidetrnk2_zps51c09f8b.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/67%20Mustang/67fbsidetrnk2_zps51c09f8b.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/67%20Mustang/67fbsidetrnk3_zps1edfbe1b.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/67%20Mustang/67fbsidetrnk3_zps1edfbe1b.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/67%20Mustang/67fbsidetrnk4_zps6e32c737.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/67%20Mustang/67fbsidetrnk4_zps6e32c737.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/67%20Mustang/67fbsidetrnk5_zps3b21f06b.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/67%20Mustang/67fbsidetrnk5_zps3b21f06b.jpg.html)
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In the many pictures, above, I see both painted and non-painted trunk latch & strikers. Which is correct?
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In the many pictures, above, I see both painted and non-painted trunk latch & strikers. Which is correct?
Both unplated - galvanized (following added) latch and bright/silver zinc striker
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Both unplated - galvanized
Agree that the latch was typically galvanized, but the striker is usually plain zinc plated.
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Agree that the latch was typically galvanized, but the striker is usually plain zinc plated.
Sorry for the mis information - too much typing and not taking my time - Post corrected (my mistake fo the day/week/month - whatever :(
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So, I have a ‘67 Fastback that I purchased a short time ago that was restored long before my purchase. The deck lid does not even try to stay up when I open it. There is no tension whatsoever when in the open position. Any thoughts or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
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The torsion rod could be installed incorrectly or has lost its tension. This design was not the best when new. I believe that is why the 68s were a new design.
A picture could possibly help us help you.
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The torsion rod could be installed incorrectly or has lost its tension. This design was not the best when new. I believe that is why the 68s were a new design.
A picture could possibly help us help you.
Thanks for the reply. I will get a couple of pics and post them. Will look forward to any thoughts or suggestions.
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The torsion rod could be installed incorrectly or has lost its tension. This design was not the best when new. I believe that is why the 68s were a new design.
A picture could possibly help us help you.
Some pics are attached
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So it appears (not being there) to be installed correctly. I'm guessing that your reporting that its not being pulled down by the spring, you feel some help from the spring while you open the trunk and you may be able to hold the trunk lid in the up position with little effort and a single finger.
If so then the rod has possibly just become worn out and your in the market for another. When you install all of it back in place remember to paint the center anchor bracket and attaching screws body color since the rod and all the hardware were in place when the car was painted. If yours is a San Jose car you should add the extra rubber insulator ("tootsie roll") painted also as shown in the pictures below
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-290718161355.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-290718161407.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-290718161342.jpeg)
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Thanks for the reply Jeff. At this point, I cannot tell if the torsion bar is doing anything at all. It does not feel like it is helping with opening the deck lid, holding it in the open position or even closing it. It just feels like it is along for the ride, serving no purpose whatsoever.
If I need a replacement torsion rod, how hard will it be to find one?
Thanks again!
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If I need a replacement torsion rod, how hard will it be to find one?
Think your only option is a used one (if I'm incorrect others will comment)
So don't pay too much unless someone is going to stand behind it being good. Like everything when you need one they (any part) gets hard to find. Just part of the feeling of achievement when you get one :)
Start putting out a few wanted ads out on the different Mustang sites and see what happens
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Think your only option is a used one (if I'm incorrect others will comment)
So don't pay too much unless someone is going to stand behind it being good. Like everything when you need one they (any part) gets hard to find. Just part of the feeling of achievement when you get one :)
Start putting out a few wanted ads out on the different Mustang sites and see what happens
Thanks Jeff!
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I wonder if you could heat it at the end to add a little twist to it to add some more torque. Not much to lose if that one is so weak.
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I wonder if you could heat it at the end to add a little twist to it to add some more torque. Not much to lose if that one is so weak.
Would need to be very careful especially on how it was heated and cool. Might loose its temper and shatter when stressed
Know some platers have problems with this happening when Phosphating hood springs
Just a concern.
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Would need to be very careful especially on how it was heated and cool. Might loose its temper and shatter when stressed
Know some platers have problems with this happening when Phosphating hood springs
Just a concern.
Yes that is concern, I would try twisting it in a vice a few times first to see what happens. As I said there is not much to loose with a worn out spring.
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Yes that is concern, I would try twisting it in a vice a few times first to see what happens. As I said there is not much to loose with a worn out spring.
Not sure of what I am going to do but I appreciate the thoughts and suggestions.