Topic: When was this delayed HP engine dressed?

[21.04]

I'm not finding any previous discussion on the topic of when a delayed engine (large gap between projected build date and deck stamp on block) was dressed. Perhaps I'm not searching the history correctly.  I've got a July 1, '66 projected built SJ HP Conv with a matching VIN stamped block.  Deck stamp date of block Feb, 9 '66.  Not sure if this block would have been dressed and crated, then sat around for 5 months taking up space somewhere before it was dropped in the car.  However, original dist has Nov '65 date, pass ex manifold is dated Feb 1, '66 (Can't get  a mirror to back side of drivers ex manifold to read the date without removing it) and oil pan dated Dec '65.  I do not have the original carb, engine manifold or manifold tag, fan blade, fuel pump, carb, coil, or fan belt.  Those are mainly parts I'm trying to determine which dates to use on this car. (Or when this engine was dressed with these parts)?

Ive also found another SJ '66 example with matching HP VIN stamped block that another forum member owns with projected build of July with Feb deck stamp.

[J_Speegle]

OK here is an effort to clarify and see what we can determine. Just the first step

First based on your post you have a 66 San Jose K code with a scheduled/projected date of July 1

You have a block with an assembly date of Feb 9. Just for collection and comparison. What is the casting date?

You speak of things being original. Have you owned this car from new? Not suggesting these things happened for your engine but stamping and restamping as well as swapping out parts in not that uncommon.

If your engine had been assembled and "sat around" it would not have been crated. Crating was a practice typically used for replacement engines for ease of handling and storing. Even then have seen 65-66 engines that were sold directly from Ford with out crating, though have seen 69 engines crated for example. Can't think of a reason to have, on purpose an engine sitting around taking up space at Cleveland or San Jose. Maybe an inventory issue.

I do not have the original carb, engine manifold or manifold tag, fan blade, fuel pump, carb, coil, or fan belt.  Those are mainly parts I'm trying to determine which dates to use on this car. (Or when this engine was dressed with these parts)?

The engine as we currently understand would have had the intake, and possibly the carb when the assembly date was stamped. Then it was painted so the coil and things like engine ID tag and sticker were added after paint so after the assembly date. Things like fan blade and fan belt would have been installed at San Jose. For an idea of what an engine would look like when shipped to San Jose there are pictures in the "The Assembly Line" under the  "Sub-Assembly & Supply Plants" Sub section. At the top of the list there is a sticky with the pictures.

[jwc66k]

I'm not finding any previous discussion on the topic of when a delayed engine (large gap between projected build date and deck stamp on block) was dressed. Perhaps I'm not searching the history correctly.  I've got a July 1, '66 projected built SJ HP Conv with a matching VIN stamped block.  Deck stamp date of block Feb, 9 '66.  Not sure if this block would have been dressed and crated, then sat around for 5 months taking up space somewhere before it was dropped in the car.  However, original dist has Nov '65 date, pass ex manifold is dated Feb 1, '66 (Can't get  a mirror to back side of drivers ex manifold to read the date without removing it) and oil pan dated Dec '65.  I do not have the original carb, engine manifold or manifold tag, fan blade, fuel pump, carb, coil, or fan belt.  Those are mainly parts I'm trying to determine which dates to use on this car. (Or when this engine was dressed with these parts)?
My 66 GT K Fastback engine was cast on 8/11/65 (5H11), assembled on 8/23/65 (5H23Z) and had a scheduled build date on the door data tag of K18 - 10/18/65. That's about two months. Keep in mind that Ford engines were assembled in batches per marketing forecasts, so the factory was ahead or behind. Plus, all 289HP "K" engine had additional measurement and testing requirements.
Jim

Ive also found another SJ '66 example with matching HP VIN stamped block that another forum member owns with projected build of July with Feb deck stamp.

[21.04]

Thank you for trying to drill this down.  It looks like the block casting date is Feb 3, 1966. 

I had the opportunity last Fall to meet with the full chain of ownership (including the original owner)in CA the day I picked up the car.  We studied and discussed the options that were present when the original owner purchased it, as well as what the owners had changed during their ownership.  It was quite a thorough and extensive discussion and inspection of the car amongst all of us that lasted about four hours.  Although there is some small probability one or more parts that I've mentioned were original to this car could have been changed, it's unlikely given the info came from the full chain of owners all present on one place. 

Sounds like the intake and maybe the carb would have dates prior to the engine assembly?  Is the carb added during assembly 100% of the time?  All other components including fan blade, dist, fan belt, fuel pump, coil, ex manifolds, starter would have been installed at SJ?  I'll take a look at the assembly line section for additional photos of what was included in the engine assembly. 

If SJ added the remaining engine parts, I have to wonder and visualize how the Nov '65 dist and Feb '66 ex manifolds ended up on the engine not too long after it was assembled.  Then delayed installation.  Would I want to use dated fan blade, fan belt, coil, alternator etc. fairly close to the dist and manifolds to go along with what I'm quite certain is original to the car or dated closer to the projected build date?

[J_Speegle]

Let me try this again. Some of these questions you could have answered if you looked at those pictures I suggested.

Sounds like the intake and maybe the carb would have dates prior to the engine assembly?  Is the carb added during assembly 100% of the time?  All other components including fan blade, dist, fan belt, fuel pump, coil, ex manifolds, starter would have been installed at SJ?  I'll take a look at the assembly line section for additional photos of what was included in the engine assembly. 

Yes as we understand it and examples have supported the intake, distributor, bellhousing  if its a manual transmission car, carburetor, exhaust manifolds, fuel pump, coil and bracket, valve covers, water pump, thermostat housing, timing cover, harmonic balancer, and I'm likely missing something else would all be dated before the assembly date unless you believe for some reason that Cleveland took a half build engine and put away someplace and finished it later leaving a hole in the production line. IMHO its a big stretch.

Items like starter, fan, pulleys, belts radiator hoses, heater hose, throttle linkage, transmission and alternator were added at San Jose in the case of your car.

If SJ added the remaining engine parts, I have to wonder and visualize how the Nov '65 dist and Feb '66 ex manifolds ended up on the engine not too long after it was assembled.  Then delayed installation.

Think you have that backwards given what you provided in your first post

"Deck stamp date of block Feb, 9 '66. ................. pass ex manifold is dated Feb 1, '66"

According to this the manifold was cast 8 days prior to the engine being assembled. Tight but not cast after.

  Would I want to use dated fan blade, fan belt, coil, alternator etc. fairly close to the dist and manifolds to go along with what I'm quite certain is original to the car or dated closer to the projected build date?

The coil is easy since you just stamp the date of choice. The alternator is not stamped in the metal and again you can just pick out a date and ink stamp it For fan belt its a bit more difficult. Have not seen anyone reproducing original type fan belts. There are ones Kevin Marti is making but not certain if they are made with a date for the early cars.


As far as choosing parts dates and using the widest spanned of dates you have (between Nov 65 and Feb 66) is your choice. Dist should have a date prior to the engine assembly date. Just for reflection I looked through what records I've collected and I found the following

-Nov 65 assembled engine Nov dated distributor
-Dec 65 cast engine with a Nov dated distributor
-Nov 65 cast Dec assembled engine with a Nov dated distributor
-Dec 65 cast Jan 66 assembled engine Nov dated distributor

 More from other parts of the year

-Nov 65 assembled engine Oct dated distributor
-April 66 cast May assembled engine April dated distributor

We could expand out to look at 65 or 67 also but that is a quick look at some examples.

As for being confident about it all being original that is your choice. Don't let the answer you want tell the story. I've experienced too many stories told by original owner that we provided were not correct. Don't think they were always making up stories just poor memories or in at least a couple it was possible they never knew and the issues were done maybe before they took delivery or during servicing at the dealership.

[21.04]

Thanks Jeff!  My apology for overlooking the archived photos.  I appreciate your patience in helping me learn the engine assembly process and relevant dated parts and when they would have been installed. 

Goal for this discussion was to understand when various engine related parts would have been installed and set a more accurate date range that would be expected for this example. I'm trying to avoid being schooled at a show with incorrectly dated parts, and glad to get great education here!!!