ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: Bossbill on February 08, 2018, 09:14:27 PM
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There is an identical version or this query, but for 1964 1/2 - 1966 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=17442.msg109910#msg109910).
I thought it would be a good question for 1967, so it goes in this set of years folder.
Is there an easy external way to note if my rotors are original assembly line or not? I noticed in the other thread it seemed easy for others to say "not assembly", but I don't know their criteria is. Is it an easy observation?
I noticed that my rotor has a lot of extra casting flash within the rotor window.
This means what?
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One of the main indicators to determine a assemblyline 2 piece rotor are the cooling vanes seen from the backside are different alternating lengths. There are many other nuance details that are different but the vanes stands out to me.
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Those look original to me, notice who the vertical wall where the cap the grease cap is isn't straight on the hub (service replacements we all a clean line) and also on the back side of the picture you can see the notch cut out of the hub, this look like original Kelsey Hayes to me... at least the hubs do...
Jason
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Those look original to me, notice who the vertical wall where the cap the grease cap is isn't straight on the hub (service replacements we all a clean line) and also on the back side of the picture you can see the notch cut out of the hub, this look like original Kelsey Hayes to me... at least the hubs do...
Jason
Agree, Hub has different design what fits through the hole in the wheel, also, the KH hubs have that notch and a hole that the Century or Ford service replacements do not. Also typical, the letters K/H on the back sides of the studs.
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Sorry for the lousy pic. I was drilling in on the window and the cast flash in there, but you guys are mentioning other things! Plus the thing is heavy and on an upper shelf,
Here is a top view of the hub.
And another of how the rotor was balanced by welding a u-shaped piece of steel into the vanes.
I thought of Centric (brakes) when I saw Century in the other thread.
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Bill, yes, your hubs have the characteristics I have seen on the assmblyline Kelsey Hayes rotors. Two items NOT confirmed yet is the view from inside (spindle side) of vanes looking outward. You should have the staggered vanes if original. That and the K/H wheel studs ;)
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67 S code GTA San Jose built April 67 these rotors were on my car shows the K/H studs
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I just found another set of assembly line two part rotors, but the rotors need replacing.
I've heard of Century brand replacements for just the rotor (not the hub) but couldn't find another source for this now obsolete rotor.
On a lark I visited Rock Auto and found that Centric now sells just the rotor portion.
This not the one piece replacement!
Has anyone seen this rotor in person to judge how close to original it looks?
They are bargain basement priced too.
I just bought a set, so I'll compare them to my originals.
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I just found another set of assembly line two part rotors, but the rotors need replacing.
I've heard of Century brand replacements for just the rotor (not the hub) but couldn't find another source for this now obsolete rotor.
On a lark I visited Rock Auto and found that Centric now sells just the rotor portion.
This not the one piece replacement!
Has anyone seen this rotor in person to judge how close to original it looks?
They are bargain basement priced too.
I just bought a set, so I'll compare them to my originals.
I am hoping you find them to be a good alternative. We will stand by for your report.
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While I was writing the above post and looking for input I just decided to order them as the pair shipped was under $100.
So yeah, the post sounded a bit disjointed since I was a bit disjointed about ordering them!
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I am hoping you find them to be a good alternative. We will stand by for your report.
+1
I bought a similar pair from O'Reilleys a while back. They are OK, had to do some modifications to help them look more or less like original. I have only 1-good usable original K/H rotor. 2nd original KH rotor is too thin.
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Here are some pictures of the Centric 125.61053 rotor I just received from RockAuto.
You be the judge as to whether or not this is a suitable replacement. IMO I think these are great.
Two issues, though.
The casting is much smoother than stock -- that is apparent.
The vanes are inset a bit more than stock.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/4249-230418131119.jpeg)
An original hub (from a 68, I believe) with a replacement no window rotor. It does not have K/H studs.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/4249-230418131219.jpeg)
An original hub and rotor with the Centric laying on top of it.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/4249-230418131324.jpeg)
Closeup of Centric window.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/4249-230418131408.jpeg)
Backside of Centric.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/4249-230418131449.jpeg)
Closeup of the inside of the Centric window.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/4249-230418131529.jpeg)
Side view of Centric rotor vanes.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/4249-230418133527.jpeg)
Finally, here is a Raybestos 6004 hub and rotor assy. The rotor looks quite similar to the Centric rotor.
If the paint is removed from the Centric rotor and installed on an original hub would it pass Concours muster?
Do you prefer the Raybestos 6004 hub and rotor?
Or maybe the 6004 rotor on a stock hub?
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I'll be interested to hear the answer on this last question from the judges...
Jason
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Here are some pictures of the Centric 125.61053 rotor I just received from RockAuto.
You be the judge as to whether or not this is a suitable replacement. IMO I think these are great.
Two issues, though.
The casting is much smoother than stock -- that is apparent.
The vanes are inset a bit more than stock.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/4249-230418131119.jpeg)
An original hub (from a 68, I believe) with a replacement no window rotor. It does not have K/H studs.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/4249-230418131219.jpeg)
An original hub and rotor with the Centric laying on top of it.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/4249-230418131324.jpeg)
Closeup of Centric window.
Finally, here is a Raybestos 6004 hub and rotor assy. The rotor looks quite similar to the Centric rotor.
If the paint is removed from the Centric rotor and installed on an original hub would it pass Concours muster?
Do you prefer the Raybestos 6004 hub and rotor?
Or maybe the 6004 rotor on a stock hub?
Without seeing the finished product I hesitate to give a definitive ruling of what I would do in Concours trailered or SAAC DIV II judging. Getting rid of the odd shade paint and with a properly detailed hub you should be able to get it to look as good as the Raybestos rotor. Any other non assemblyline details in this regard would most likely be in the mention category and not in the deduction category. Just my opinion others may have different.
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Hey Bossbill, curious how this worked out for you with the new rotors and the older Kelsey Hayes Hubs? Did they go together and fit ok?
Thanks,
Jason
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Hi Jason,
One thing to remember when dealing with concours parts -- when the deal hits, buy it!
I have the original assembly line rotors which are right at their wear limit. I can turn rotors onsite so they are still my preferred option.
The Raybestos rotors were a really good deal, so I had to get them if my first option failed.
Then I came upon another set of assembly line rotors, but well beyond the wear limit. In the search for replacement rotors I came upon the Centric rotors. These will be my option 2 if the first set doesn't pan out.
But, I had to buy the parts while they were still available. I've often procrastinated over buying parts, but no longer.
My painter has an opening so I'm working very hard on getting the body finished.
I'll get to the suspension after paint.
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Haha, yes, I bought the same rotors at the same time you did as my backup as well. I have a fully restored set of original Kelsey Hayes rotors that I did, but similar thing, the rotor portion was below spec and was really a little concern about using them. I have the ones we bought on ebay on the car currently but really would love to put the Kelsey's on there instead, so more was curious if your replacement rotors actually worked ;)
Let me know once you get back into it, be curious...
Thanks,
Jason
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I bought a two sets of the Raybestos rotors a couple years ago and swapped the hats onto original K/H hubs. They turned out fine - not 100% concours due to the differences in the vanes, etc. but I'm happy with them.
Press out the K/H studs with a lug nut on to protect threads, Then you can clean up and gun blue or phosphate the studs before reusing them.
Obviously they will have to be trued up after being pressed together - Mine cleaned up with a small amount removed from each surface. A good tip is to thread on and torque all 5 lug nuts before truing to mimic conditions as installed on the car. Also change out the races beforehand.
I was a little worried about possible out of balance issues with the finished assembly but have noticed no adverse effect with them in use on the car.
I think this is a worthwhile effort especially considering few alternatives out there.
Kurt.
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When I finally got to the rear axle I knew the brakes would come into play. Back there.
But things like fully assembled spindles take up a lot of room. So I started investigating K/H caliper numbers which lead me down "the path".
So I dug into the cleaning and restoring the fronts and after taking my hubs and rotors apart and cleaning them, I found this paint mark on the hub snout. There was no over-spray onto any other parts.
It looks like a faded green.
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I finally got to my other rotor and this one has a much stronger paint mark.
This may identify this as a Shelby assembly since the brake assy is a bit different according to the DSO document.
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I finally got to my other rotor and this one has a much stronger paint mark.
This may identify this as a Shelby assembly since the brake assy is a bit different according to the DSO document.
Believe its the caliper that is noted as being "different" rather than the rotor in the paperwork (Add/delete sheets)
Interesting markings. Have not seen them on another pair built at San Jose or any other plant that year.
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Believe its the caliper that is noted as being "different" rather than the rotor in the paperwork (Add/delete sheets)
Interesting markings. Have not seen them on another pair built at San Jose or any other plant that year.
+1 .The caliper is the C7ZX described part but I do not know what is different about it given I have compared a number over the years with regular Mustang ones and can't see a difference. Maybe there is but it gets by me .that is not that uncommon because the A/C compressor although having a special C7ZX engineering number compares identical to a typical York Mustang compressor. I have found those same color markings a number of times on NOS service rotors but haven't seen them in the field on cars.
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I didn't think the NOS service rotors had the square cutout and hole in the hub face.
These did have K/H studs as well as the vane offset on the inside.
Not that I've ever seen an NOS service rotor...
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I didn't think the NOS service rotors had the square cutout and hole in the hub face.
These did have K/H studs as well as the vane offset on the inside.
Not that I've ever seen an NOS service rotor...
Bill, I didn't mean to infer that your rotors were later service versions just reporting that the later service versions are the only ones I have ever seen the color markings on. There a number of versions of service rotors. Only the older versions have the contoured snout like yours in the picture for instance .