ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: macd on January 07, 2015, 01:57:29 PM
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can any one tell me for sure if a 64.5 hipo flywheel is different this is a 5 bolt 289 it is a real hipo restoring a 64.5 K convert for a guy and the mach. shop lost the flywheel I guess I should refine my ? I no that they look the same as other 157 tooth and I no that they had a different casting number and my first thought was that were probably the same as a non hipo but then there was the different balancer and the bob weight what I am wondering is if the balance was different they did not balance this engine when it was rebuilt (not my choice) but now I have a fresh 5 bolt hypo setting on the stand wondering if I should tear it down and send it to the balance shop or if a non hypo 289 had the same basic weight on the flywheel
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The HP flywheel is the same for 64 thru 66. The casting number is C3OE-6380-B with a finished part/stock number of C3OZ-6375-C. They look the same as a regular flywheel with 157 teeth. Be advised, several of the last ones I've owned had "micro-cracks" in the clutch surface. I managed to reuse one.
Jim
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Please note the original 289 HiPo flywheel ring gear had 160 teeth and the
replacements have 157.
Texas Swede
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Please note the original 289 HiPo flywheel ring gear had 160 teeth and the
replacements have 157.
Texas Swede
Interesting. Got a source?
Jim
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I kinda rember the 160 tooth thing and I think that is what the missing one was but the balance thing has got me worried
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The Ford Muscle Parts Book, page 33, in the "Engine Balance" section talks about adding the 289 HP damper (C5OZ-6516-A) and the HP counterweight (C3OZ-6A360-A) to the 289 2V and 4V engines "...to reduce torsional vibrations to an acceptable level...". There is no mention of changing flywheels or flex plates when adding the HP pieces in this section.
The next section, "Recommended 289 and 302 High Performance Parts", page 33, does mention "using the appropriate flywheel... for either manual or automatic transmission, with teeth count to match the starter gear". Again, no mention of using a specific or different flywheel.
While not a definite answer to your question, it would appear that, at least as for balancing purposes, the HP flywheel and the non HP flywheel are interchangeable, providing the ring gear tooth count match.
Hope this helps.
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that makes me feel a little better I had those books in another wife time opps I mean life time and rembered it saying that you could add those parts to a stock motor but did not no if they recommended changing flywheel guess I will try and see if it shakes it self and go from there thanks for all your input this car is for sale to if anyone is looking for a partially done 64.5 hipo vert its a nice pile of parts but not the original engine trans the engine is out of 64.5 hipo fairlane I parted out 30 years ago
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I have owned many 289 HiPo engines and still have two in my 65 Shelby and 67 Shelby.
Also bought a HiPo flywheel from Jim Cowles for a friend in Sweden. They all had 160 teeth until I replaced one in one of my cars and could only find the replacement which has 157
teeth. I am certain that the experts can verify this.
Texas Swede
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So, were non-hipo 289s given 160t flywheels? I had one on my 66 GT SJ Oct 65 built, dated 5Jxx but it doesn't have the orange paint mark.
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I couldn't tell you as I have only looked at HiPo's
/Texas Swede
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Our flexplate is a 157 tooth for certain and was original to the car. It's been changed out once, with an NOS 157 tooth several years ago, when I had the engine rebuilt. Car is a SJ, A-Code, C4 Auto. Wish I had a part number for you but thought I'd add comment to help out.
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Interesting. Got a source?
Jim
I wasn't aware of this either (160 vs 157 teeth), so looked around a little. Besides Bo's reference, found this quote from Fred Ballard over on the Hipo mustang forum. Fred is someone who would know. Link below the quote.
Also, in looking at a picture of my original hipo flywheel, it looks to have 160 teeth as well. I'll have to verify when I get home.
Interesting.
"...The 160 tooth ring gear is original as the replacement ring gears and flywheels for that 160 tooth version are 157 teeth. Ford found that the 157 tooth gear held up better. A C3OE flywheel would be a correct original number although the Hipo and standard flywheels bore the same casting number in that era.
-Fred-"
http://www.hipomustang.com/hpmx/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1440&p=6290&hilit=flywheel+teeth#p6290 (http://www.hipomustang.com/hpmx/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1440&p=6290&hilit=flywheel+teeth#p6290)
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I am pretty sure the hi-po flywheel originally had 160 teeth. I found one in decent shape last year with it's original ring gear which has 160 teeth. This flywheel carries the same C3OE-6380-B part number but has a slightly different balance to it. I can't remember the exact amount but it should go with my original C5OE damper with a balance of 24.5. Had mine bead blasted except for the orange paint and the area around the test mark. Mine was very similar to the one shown on Mustangtek. The hatchet which hardly ever gets reused after rebuilding was put on to compensate for the larger rod bolts and caps. I never did the bolts and caps in mine but I did put a double roller timing set in and I have no room for the hatchet under the aluminum timing cover so I kept the cookie cutter hatchet as a wall decoration. The rotating assembly balanced fine without the hatchet although they did have to adjust the balance on the crank.
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In my earlier post, I've since learned that I was wrong about our original having 157 teeth. I was told at the time, the 157 tooth, NOS plate I picked up at he Mustang shop, was a direct/exact replacement for the one ruined by the mechanic, who was working on it at that time. He forgot to remove his socket and breaker bar from the crankshaft bolt (to manually turn the motor) and started the engine up when he lowered the car to ground level. Had to check my receipts (and memory). Since I was mad as all get out, wanted my car back ASAP, I not only had to take them a new fan blade setup to install, I forgot to salvage the ruined parts. I have no way to confirm the original actually had 157 teeth. I suspect it did not, based upon what I've read here. Long story...
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My original July 64 Hi Po flywheel has 160 teeth and is balanced heavier at 30 ounces as opposed to 28 for non Hi Po's. As mentioned previously, this is to compensate/balance for the heavier rods and bolts in the Hi Po and offset by the hatchet weight and heavier harmonic balancer.
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we just replace my original 160 tooth ring gear with a 157 tooth gear and the starter no longer makes the high pitched starter engagement noise. nice and quiet now.
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Hey Ed, noticed this post was from 2015, and was wondering if you used the "short nose" or the "long nose"? Four speed or auto? I was reading some old posts about this starter problem evantugby had over on some other site and was just wondering about it as I just found my old starter today and was researching it. C30F-11131-A. (Short nose) Thanks for all your input. :)