ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: Hipo giddyup on January 31, 2015, 01:23:01 PM
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I'm just starting to restore an original 1964-65 rally pac and I'm already running into a few questions. First I have dissassembled the pac and one of the first items to tackle is a wiring kit replacement as the wires have been cut. Anyone have any tips for this?? I see they offer a replacement set, are they decent?? Also, I want to polish and clean up the original lenses. Any products or tips in this area??? One big question is how do I remove the clock stem?? I definitely do not want to break anything!! :-\
Next, looks like the tach might have come out before as one of the screws is not original?? Guess there is no way of knowing and hopefully the tach works, (as it seems there is no way of bench testing the tach correct??)
Lastly, (for now), should the rally pac "words" on the plastic center be painted silver or left black? These do not look like they have ever had any paint on them..
Ohh, and what type of paint is a good touch up and match?? Manufacturer and type (semi flat,etc). This is ofcourse a black rally pac, pics to follow in a minute. Thanks for any replies!!!!!
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Here are some pics so far..
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I'm just starting to restore an original 1964-65 rally pac and I'm already running into a few questions. First I have dissassembled the pac and one of the first items to tackle is a wiring kit replacement as the wires have been cut. Anyone have any tips for this?? I see they offer a replacement set, are they decent?? Also, I want to polish and clean up the original lenses. Any products or tips in this area??? One big question is how do I remove the clock stem?? I definitely do not want to break anything!! :-\
Next, looks like the tach might have come out before as one of the screws is not original?? Guess there is no way of knowing and hopefully the tach works, (as it seems there is no way of bench testing the tach correct??)
Lastly, (for now), should the rally pac "words" on the plastic center be painted silver or left black? These do not look like they have ever had any paint on them..
Ohh, and what type of paint is a good touch up and match?? Manufacturer and type (semi flat,etc). This is ofcourse a black rally pac, pics to follow in a minute. Thanks for any replies!!!!!
I'll tackle your questions in order starting with the wiring. The rally pac wiring repair kit worked very well for me. One thing to note is that the repair kit provides you with quite a bit of wire so you should measure the approximate amount you'll need and trim it to start. Leave yourself a little bit extra to work with (you can always tuck it up under the dash). In addition, the underdash harness is reasonably long as well. To facilitate the repair did the following:
Wiring
1- Stripped the end of both wires
2 - Ran a length of shrink tubing up on of the end of the wires (to protect / seal the repair)
3 - Weaved the two end of copper wire into one another and soldered it
4 - Placed the shrink tubing over the repair and applied heat to shrink it
5 - Wound electrical tape over the repair to duplicate the look of the harness from the factory
The bullet connector ends on the harness fit nice and snuggly together with one another. PS - While you have everything apart you'll want to replace light bulbs too.
Lens - I found the reproduction lens to be more than adequate and didn't both to try to save my extremely brittle and yellowed originals. You could try to use a headlight polishing kit but I'm not sure what results you could achieve
Scripted Rally Pac (in the center) - The words rally pac in the center should be chrome in color (not silver). There is no chrome paint I found. Instead I bought a thin sheet of chrome from a hobby / model store and carefully applied and trimmed it with an exacto knife. It was tedious work but I was pleased with how it turned out.
Paint - I was lucky in that my rally pac's paint (also black) was in pretty good condition. It just need to be touched up. The key is to duplicate or not spoil the crinkle camera case style finish on the rally pac. I gently cleaned my rally pac (allowed to dry thoroughly) and then with a combination of Krylon Satin Finish and Krlyon Textured Finish (Outdoor Spaces) I was able to duplicate the original sheen and not fill in the texture. I applied 4 very light coats of paint (2 coats satin finish and 2 coats textured finish). I turned out very nice. I carefully masked off the chrome on the underside of the hoods to avoid any overspray.
I've attached some pictures of the Rally Pac post paint (I couldn't find my "before" photos).
Good Luck with your resto!
Regards,
Ron
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They sell a black crinkle/wrinkle finish paint. Used it years ago and still holds up today...
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Thanks for the reply. I have always had good results from krylon just never tried their textured stuff.
And also, i have heard about wrinkle finish paints. What brand is good..???
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Oh, and how do you remove the adjustment stem for the clock?? Thanks.
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Thanks for the reply. I have always had good results from krylon just never tried their textured stuff.
And also, i have heard about wrinkle finish paints. What brand is good..???
I stayed away from the wrinkle finish paints as all of the research I did point to people need to "bake" the paint in an oven to get a good result. I didn't want to find out on my own and since the paint was in pretty good shape to begin with I didn't need to strip the old paint off and start fresh.
Regards,
Ron
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I stayed away from the wrinkle finish paints as all of the research I did point to people need to "bake" the paint in an oven to get a good result.
That's one type, current types are rattle cans without an oven requirement. The application is tricky, practice on a tin can before trying the Rally Pac housing. My first attempt got one side great, the other was disappointing.
There is another option and that is powder coat wrinkle. I got an estimate of $125 to $150 for a "lot charge", that would be for three or four housings done at the same time, same color.
Jim
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Thanks for your opinions on the wrinkle finish. I really just need a fresh coat of black over the pac and i would be good. It doesnt need to be stripped in my opinion.
Ron, your pac looks great but i,m wondering it the finish looks more like a spatter texture than wrinkle?? I have looked at some results from other sites using VHT wrinkle finish, ( appearently Hondas all use wrinkle on their valve covers), and these results look great. They just recommend using a hair dryer for better , even results. Since i have a heat gun, i would guess a little greater distance might be the key?? I think i will take the advice of testing this on a metal can... I will post pics when i get there...
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Oh, and how do you remove the adjustment stem for the clock?? Thanks.
I believe the knob is threaded on the stem. You are supposed to be able to pull the stem out as if you were adjusting the time, clamp it with needle nose pliers and then unthread the knob. This can be tough to do - good luck!
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Here are a few pics of the light lens that I replaced. Luckily the 64-65 gauge cluster lens is the same exact match. I used a donor from an old cluster. To remove I just used a razor knife to lift up the edges of the blue lens. where their pegs go through the housing. These seem to have been heated once into position to attach them. Then I had enough peg of the donor lens to insert into the holes on the clock housing. I then used an old knife that I heated to melt down the lens peg to attach it back into place.
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Thanks for your opinions on the wrinkle finish. I really just need a fresh coat of black over the pac and i would be good. It doesnt need to be stripped in my opinion.
Ron, your pac looks great but i,m wondering it the finish looks more like a spatter texture than wrinkle?? I have looked at some results from other sites using VHT wrinkle finish, ( appearently Hondas all use wrinkle on their valve covers), and these results look great. They just recommend using a hair dryer for better , even results. Since i have a heat gun, i would guess a little greater distance might be the key?? I think i will take the advice of testing this on a metal can... I will post pics when i get there...
Re finish being more spatter texture than wrinkle - that's what it always looked like since I've owned the car (mid-90's). Don't know for sure if a PO didn't try to touch it up previously. It didn't look like it had ever been touched but you never know.
Regards,
Ron
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I really just need a fresh coat of black over the pac and i would be good. It doesnt need to be stripped in my opinion.
A fresh coat will fill the grain, sort of like the effect of multiple layers of paint on doors. It will not look good.
Jim
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So here is a test with the VHT wrinkle paint that I found locally. Turned out nice but will try to get away with one good coat instead of multiples like the can says since it is already "decent" paint left on the pac. I don't want it to look like undecoating..😉 I used my heat gun at a distance of about 12-14" and it changed to wrinkle texture right before my eyes.. Got to remember to be careful on the plastic center..😁
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Just recieved the repair kit wiring harness for my rally PAC. Can anyone tell me the correct length of the harness that should extend from the rally PAC? I don't want it too long or too short. Thanks
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So here are some pics of before and after resto of the Rally Pac. I'm happy with the result so far. I ended up having to replace the clock, wiring, bulbs & bulb lens,and gauge lenses. I'll only know if the tach works once it's installed..
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Looks good!
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Fantastic! would you like to do another one for me? lol ;)
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Thanks guys.. That means alot as I am always too critical on myself.
The tally is as follows;
$270 for used Rally Pac
$80 for replacement quartz clock
$40 for replacement lenses
$30 for replacement repair harness
$9 for wrinkle finish paint
$50 for a new replacement "rally pac" center fill panel
=$479
Plus about 8 hours of total time. I realize I could have spent $360-$400+ on a repro but hey, it's a 1965 Ford!! ;D
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I've seen the repo and much prefer original... :)
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Thanks guys.. That means alot as I am always too critical on myself.
The tally is as follows;
$270 for used Rally Pac
$80 for replacement quartz clock
$40 for replacement lenses
$30 for replacement repair harness
$9 for wrinkle finish paint
$50 for a new replacement "rally pac" center fill panel
=$479
Plus about 8 hours of total time. I realize I could have spent $360-$400+ on a repro but hey, it's a 1965 Ford!! ;D
Where's the RP harness that goes to the main underdash that I sent you?
Just fishing for references. ;D
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Not quite there yet.. Might have time to install in the next few weeks and will try to get installation pics for everyone to reference. I re-cleaned and re-taped the used harness just because I'm that anal. ;) It should work fine and thanks again Midlife!
One issue I'm having now is that the tach is showing the "clear" light instead of the green light as on the clock side. I have put back the blue covered light diffuser (I guess that's what you call it) so I'm clueless how it's not the green light I have been told it should be (thanks Charles). I will say that the clear plastic cup that goes around the bulb inside the tach is half gone from heat and age. Not sure if that is the culprit?? I'm thinking it could be as the light is much brighter on the tach side and now, not sure how to correct this as they do not offer a replacement.
Can anyone tell me the correct assembly of how the tach goes back together as I put it back the way I took it apart. ie tach housing, rubber gasket, tach lens (but I'm can't remember how the beveled edge goes??), tach rally pac housing.. Any suggestions??
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one of my r/p lights went out. i replaced the bulb with some nos green ones i found on ebay.
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Thanks Carlight, I was thinking of that. So you used an 1895 green colored bulb? Was it darker due to the blue covering on the front light diffuser??
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actually it was a pretty good match.
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Thanks, any links on where to purchase from??
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last ones i got off ebay.several years back. lunch pail parts..........mr.f.....not sure if he still sells though.
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Just looked on ebay, bunch of them for sale, about $10 for box of 10 w/shipping.
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The standard incandescent bulb with the blue diffuser produces the green light.
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Hi there. Your restoration turned out very nice. I'm sure you found as I did - once you get into it, the job is not that hard, but it's time consuming. I also have a similar problem. I appears part of the issue is the quality blackout tint on the tach lens. It "looks" great until you apply light to it and then you can see the "white" unshielded part of the light pass through it and also direct upwards towards the tach readout. The green tint is properly backlighting the tach numbers but is washed out by the white light leaking pass the blackout at the base of the lens. The original lens didn't have that problem. As a result, I tried to save my original but it was way too far gone. At the time I bought the reproduction lens there was only 1 manufacturer. Since that time Scott Drake now also sells a set of lens. I've heard good things about them so I bought a set. My early spring project this year is the swap out the lens and if that doesn't work I bought some green 1895 lights to see if that will do the trick.
I just ran out to the garage to shoot some pictures so you could see what mine looks like. I'll post in the thread since you can't attach a file to a PM.
Ron
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Thank you Ron.. I am first going to be masking and painting the back side of the tach lens to darken it up. While I have the tach apart I am going to see if I can install another scavenged blue instrument light cover from my spare 65 gauge cluster. If that won't work I will be ordering a few green colored 1895 bulbs.. I will try and post some pics over this weekend when I attempt the blue light cover from the cluster along with the additional black-out.
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Funny you should mention the masking and re-painting lens - that's another "potential" remedy on my list I meant to refer to yesterday. I look forward to seeing your results.
Regards,
Ron
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So I took the tach apart again and replaced the light bulb with an 1895g (green) bulb since the light diffuser wasn't producing a good enough green glow. While in there I also removed the plastic light cover since it was falling apart from age and heat. Pretty happy with the results. With the tach lens out I used fine line tape, masked off the lens around the blackout area and repainted it to make it darker and not allow any remnant light to pass through. Now just waiting on a good day to install... :)
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Looks much better without the light "bleed through" at the bottom of the tach. Repainting the bottom portion (blacked out portion) of the lens worked out well. What paint did you use to repaint it?
Regards,
Ron
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Thanks Ron. I used what I had handy which was Krylon satin black. It came out uneven so not sure if I have an older can? I had to put three coats on and due a little clean up around the lens but I'm satisfied. I kept checking it in front of a bright light as some areas didnt seem to get as much coverage? I would think any flat or satin would do.. Also smart to tape the tip for the tach adjustment. No need for paint on it.
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Just wanted to update you guys on my Rally Pac. Finally got time to install it over the weekend. I created wiring to retain the Pertronix 1, and not effect the tach. Hooked everything up and got super lucky with the tach working!!! I am very pleased with the results. It really makes the interior look great. 8)
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Just wanted to update you guys on my Rally Pac. Finally got time to install it over the weekend. I created wiring to retain the Pertronix 1, and not effect the tach. Hooked everything up and got super lucky with the tach working!!! I am very pleased with the results. It really makes the interior look great. 8)
That looks great! Nice job. I'm in the midst of repainting my tach lens and servicing my clock. I hope to get everything back together this weekend.
Ron
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UPDATE - I finally have everything working like I want to (no excess light coming through the tach lens). I found that using paint to darken the lens and eliminate the light bleed through didn't work as well as I wanted. The paint didn't adhere to the lens surface very well and covered the lens really unevenly - even with multiple coats of paint). As a result, I went really low tech and used electrical tape which I then trimmed with an exacto knife. IMO, it turned out really well (the light bled through is gone). In addition, I made sure both the tach and clock have the proper light bulbs.
The tach uses a 1895 bulb and the clock uses a 1816 bulb. Not only do the 2 bulb have different brightness levels (1895=2, 1816=3 MSCD*) but their shapes are different as well which is the major reason for using both types of bulbs. The 1895 is a globe shaped bulb (used the dashboard lights and glove box light) whereas the 1816 is a tubular shape so that the filament is placed further down in the holder to get the light where it needs to be. Using these bulbs will make the clock and tach the illuminate with same greenish color and brightness as the rest of the instrument panel.
In addition, I was able to get the clock working again too. Fortunately there was nothing mechanically or electrically wrong with the clock. It just needed to be cleaned and oiled. Once I was able to get it working again I then found out how to fine tune the clock (as it was running a bit fast). There is a lever which controls the spring tension for the clock balance wheel (this is what the winding the clock spring activates). After some adjustments and letting the clock run using a test rig it is now keeping time extremely well. I also learned an important sidenote. The act of adjusting the time on the clock (using the adjuster dial) actually fine tunes the clock speed. As a result, you have to be careful not to adjust the clock too much at once or it will no longer keep time accurately.
Finally the #1 cause of failure in these clocks is a near dead battery which doesn't have any enough power to kick open the winding mechanism and keeps the "points-like winding mechanism closed" which then overheats and burns out the copper windings on the spring actuator (which winds the clock).
So in short, the Rally Pac now looks and functions exactly as it did back in '65. :-). The tach still produces a whiter light as the diffuser is a light redirection lens with a blue strip of plastic on it. The clock is now brighter and blends in nicely with the brightness of the dashboard lights.
*MSCD - ["Mean Spherical Candela", or "candlepower"]
Regards,
Ron