ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: socalgt on May 08, 2015, 01:32:05 PM
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Did all original 289 radiators have the fittings to accept automatic transmission fluid lines? Were they stamped on top with the ford part#?
Thanks...
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Not all had the auto cooler.
Stampings varied based on supplier. It is my understanding that "generally" the San Jose cars had radiators supplied by Modine, and have a "W-MO" stamp with month/date reverse stamped into the top tank. Also I think that for the Modine the part number is stamped on one of the foldover straps on the top. But that last statement may only be true on some.
For Dearborn I don't recall anything on top at all. On the driver's side vertical channel you should see DEP and the part number is in the same area.
Not sure about Metuchen.
This should get the ball rolling - I'm looking forward to learning more, and even being corrected if incorrect in what I said.
Some pics attached
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Did all original 289 radiators have the fittings to accept automatic transmission fluid lines?
No
Were they stamped on top with the ford part#?
We would need to know what plant your looking for/at. Makes a difference
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Looking for markings present on 289 radiators installed at the Mutechen assembly plant and wheather the fittings for automatic fluid lines were on all original radiators installed there.
Thanks...
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Looking for markings present on 289 radiators installed at the Mutechen assembly plant and wheather the fittings for automatic fluid lines were on all original radiators installed there.
Thanks...
As reply #2 indicated -only automatic transmission equipped cars had the cooler line fittings . 4 speed cars did not have the fittings . The Metuchen cars had the engineering number stamped into the side strap . FOMOCO raised letters on the top tank. No date code on the top tank.
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Thanks for the replies
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Here a picture of what actually is on my car.
It is a San Jose, not a metuchen so only for showing generally.
Regards,
Jeroen
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Here a picture of what actually is on my car.
It is a San Jose, not a metuchen so only for showing generally.
Regards,
Jeroen
Jeroen, yours looks to be a service replacement radiator. The round FoMoCo logo, the date code and engineering code indicate this. Not at all unlike the 98% of 50 year old cars that got a radiator replaced somewhere along their lifetime...like mine, yours is a replacement. I looked at my radiator yesterday. I had my radiator re cored in 'circa 1985 by Modine Radiators while I lived in So. Calif. I ASSUME, I got my original tanks & straps back, but that is not guaranteed (say if they were unusable) Looking at the radiator MODINE sent back to me at that time, I have NO date codes in tank, no date codes on straps and FOMOCO (squared logo) on top tank. I'm OK with that, but I suppose it might be "NOT concours" going by descriptions in this thread.
IMHO, if you are not attempting Thoroughbred class in MCA Judging, some of these details become rather trivial. We need to pick our battles. Minor issues (like this) can be worked out at a later date if need be. As for me, I intend to used my square-logo tank with no date code. Nothing yet proves beyond any doubt that it is right or wrong at this time but since I know it was re cored before, obviously it could be incorrect going by this information.
Richard
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Hello Richard,
Thanks for the explanation. I didn't know for sure, but have my thoughts about those date codes on my radiator ::)
It looks that it is the safest way not to apply in the Thoroughbred class in MCA Judging ;)
Kind regards,
Jeroen
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Here's a shot of my 67 K Code Metuchen radiator top tank. Originally exported to Guatemala. 4 speed car so no automatic cooler. No other markings or date codes on top tank.
Not sure of originality?
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp75/hopeto/67kradiator_zpsswfpgcft.jpg) (http://s399.photobucket.com/user/hopeto/media/67kradiator_zpsswfpgcft.jpg.html)
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67 San Jose examples
Close up of date
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/3/6-130515123320.jpeg)
Typical top tank markings for identification
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/3/6-130515123432.jpeg)
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Resurrecting this thread to seek additional info.
Bottom pic in Reply #10 is a nice example of a '67 W-MO 289 radiator for a San Jose car.
See the top strap tabs on this 20" W-MO 66 - 9 radiator in photo below. The corners of the tabs have square 90-degree cut corners, instead of the rounded/radiused corners on the Reply #10 example above. Assuming the rounded corners are correct and square corners are not?
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Thanks for the additional info Jeff.
Here's another thread: 67 San Jose Convertible C Code Thermactor w/AC-Unrestored Picture Thread 67 San Jose Convertible http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=8272.0 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=8272.0)
Photos E3 and E11 show similar rounded corners on the straps, on a '67 C code.
E3
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-211017154115-8959511.jpeg)
E11
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-211017155549-89692439.jpeg)
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Thanks for the additional info Jeff.
Here's another thread: 67 San Jose Convertible C Code Thermactor w/AC-Unrestored Picture Thread 67 San Jose Convertible ............
Photos E3 and E11 show similar rounded corners on the straps, on a '67 C code.
Yes unfortunately that one "lost" its identification tag/label when it was likely rodded out some time in the past. Was and or is an air condition car, reason for the extra cooling style radiator. Likely have more than 100 picture examples with this particular style of radiator
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Jeff, I think your round-top bracket radiator pictured (now removed) here may be a 16-inch radiator (I-6 example?), noting what looks to be the wider side bracket at the lower edge of image (not completely seen in this image).
Aside from this, my understanding is that any 289 with Thermactor & Select-Aire would have Extra Cooling option (also K-codes too, even w/o Select-Aire). Other 289's WITHOUT Select-Aire would typically receive a 20-inch STANDARD cooling radiator. I have not seen any 289's with a 16-inch radiator (though I would never rule this out for Eastern/Midwest DSO's). I did not look at the MPC to confirm any of this, only reporting my personal observations over the years which were mostly Western DSO examples.
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Jeff, I think your round-top bracket radiator pictured here may be a 16-inch radiator (I-6 example?), noting what looks to be the wider side bracket at the lower edge of image (not completely seen in this image).
Aside from this, my understanding is that any 289 with Thermactor & Select-Aire would have Extra Cooling option (also K-codes too, even w/o Select-Aire). Other 289's WITHOUT Select-Aire would typically receive a 20-inch STANDARD cooling radiator. I have not seen any 289's with a 16-inch radiator (though I would never rule this out for Eastern/Midwest DSO's). I did not look at the MPC to confirm any of this, only reporting my personal observations over the years which were mostly Western DSO examples.
I'd agree with Richard, which is why I think the radiator below looks to be a good match for my '67 C code car with C4, AC and T/E. It needs servicing and repair, but I'll move forward.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/11/2776-041218070837.jpeg)
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I'd agree with Richard, which is why I think the radiator below looks to be a good match for my '67 C code car with C4, AC and T/E. It needs servicing and repair, but I'll move forward.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/11/2776-041218070837.jpeg)
I wouldn't say it is exactly a perfect match but feel you may be safe in saying it is "a good match". I believe what you may have there is a STANDARD cooling radiator but as a core, it can be used for parts to achieve a "perfect match" to your build information.
Robert, I am curious about the strap differences seen as you have pointed out. I realize we may not be able to whittle it down as to why they are different than the majority typically found but perhaps, and keeping in mind, radiator shops often switch things around when doing repair or recore work. Another situation that can weigh in is that Falcons, Comets, Fairlanes and other Mid-size Ford/Mercury cars can use the same size core and similar brackets can be swapped around.
I think it is safest to say (as it always is) unRestored examples with the same equipment is the safest examples to compair your needs to.
By the way, it is AT LEAST a great find nonetheless! I would certainly would not hesitate using it for the top tank (at very least) on my 67 with similar date and equipment and I feel we are searching for the exact same end result for our build info*. Given Jeff's picture...it certainly looks like the side straps may be from perhaps another supplier other than Western Modine (manufactured circa October 1966).
*(since I already have a brand new Modine radiator)
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I wouldn't say it is exactly a perfect match but feel you may be safe in saying it is "a good match". I believe what you may have there is a STANDARD cooling radiator but as a core, it can be used for parts to achieve a "perfect match" to your build information.
Robert, I am curious about the strap differences seen as you have pointed out. I realize we may not be able to whittle it down as to why they are different than the majority typically found but perhaps, and keeping in mind, radiator shops often switch things around when doing repair or recore work. Another situation that can weigh in is that Falcons, Comets, Fairlanes and other Mid-size Ford/Mercury cars can use the same size core and similar brackets can be swapped around.
I think it is safest to say (as it always is) unRestored examples with the same equipment is the safest examples to compair your needs to.
By the way, it is AT LEAST a great find nonetheless! I would certainly would not hesitate using it for the top tank (at very least) on my 67 with similar date and equipment and I feel we are searching for the exact same end result for our build info*. Given Jeff's picture...it certainly looks like the side straps may be from perhaps another supplier other than Western Modine (manufactured circa October 1966).
*(since I already have a brand new Modine radiator)
Thanks Richard,
I haven't had the opportunity to compare side-by-side, a 1967 20" Standard radiator with an Extra Cooling radiator so I can't comment about any differences.
Agree, the radiator is a good find that I'll plan to use on my car. I have the original side straps with the curved corners which I plan to swap. For background, the car currently has an aftermarket Modine core installed in 1981 to replace the worn out W MO radiator. The original radiator was discarded (1981 - who knew!), however the original straps were reused on the Modine core.
Robert
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I realize that you are looking for information on a SJ 67 but here is a picture of a 20 inch 68 SJ radiator in our unrestored HCS. It has the same straps as yours.
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I realize that you are looking for information on a SJ 67 but here is a picture of a 20 inch 68 SJ radiator in our unrestored HCS. It has the same straps as yours.
Thank you, your photo is very useful!
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I realize that you are looking for information on a SJ 67 but here is a picture of a 20 inch 68 SJ radiator in our unrestored HCS. It has the same straps as yours.
Not really Marty...it has the same look as what he should be using. Look again at Robert's recent "enlarged" picture. The corners are sharp, 90o corners, not the rounded corners the other examples have (not to be confused with the 'round-top' strap Jeff showed earlier).
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Thanks for the additional info Jeff.
Here's another thread: 67 San Jose Convertible C Code Thermactor w/AC-Unrestored Picture Thread 67 San Jose Convertible http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=8272.0 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=8272.0)
Photos E3 and E11 show similar rounded corners on the straps, on a '67 C code.
E3
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-211017154115-8959511.jpeg)
E11
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-211017155549-89692439.jpeg)
?? This looks rounded to me.
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Richard and Marty,
I think we are in agreement that the rounded corners not sharp corners are correct for a '67 20" radiator. Below is a photo of the old radiator currently in my car. I plan to re-use those rounded-corner straps shown in the pic on the repaired W MO 66-9 radiator when it's installed.
Robert
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/11/2776-041218104019.jpeg)
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?? This looks rounded to me.
I was saying Roberts recent find had the square corners. Maybe a misunderstanding of sorts in where I was looking. (see attached)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/11/2776-041218070837.jpeg)
[/quote]
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Maybe it's because the near corner looks round and the far corner looks square?
BTW, my W-MO 67 2 extra cooling radiator (Marti confirms) has rounded corners with the tag still on top.
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As often happens its terms or words that we choose and their differences that get in the way of our understanding and communication.
Do have one example with a notched corner but would not post it, don't know the history and there is only one so likely there is some other explanation for that single example
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Maybe it's because the near corner looks round and the far corner looks square?
BTW, my W-MO 67 2 extra cooling radiator (Marti confirms) has rounded corners with the tag still on top.
Have learned through this forum that the Extra Cooling package can consist of varying components, depending on the year and model of the car. For the '67 Mustang with a 289, Extra Cooling would include in addition to the 20" radiator: seven-blade clutch fan, fan shroud, and ___ ? For 289 cars with AC (and Thermactor in certain DSOs), the Extra Cooling package is included with the AC option. I understand that Extra Cooling is included with any 1967 GT350; for example Bossbill's.
I have a question about the 20" radiator used with the 289 Extra Cooling package in 1967: What are the differences if any, from the standard 20" radiator used with the 289?
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Duece, I don't mean to be argumentative, but I would give a second look at the straps you plan to use. There is even a bigger difference that I see - if you will note how the original factory straps have a bump up across the strap before making the turn down the side, Which these do not have - they are flat. (the original soldered on tag lays right along this recess). I have seen Modine replacement radiators with the flat style strap.
Personally, I would use the tank and straps from the core you found - they look right. (I really can't see what you mean by square corners - maybe a better straight from top photo would help) At any rate if they appear too squared off, a little radiusing with a file should do the trick.
The main difference in standard vs extra cooling radiator was in the fins per inch specification and otherwise look the same.
Hope you see what I'm saying - Kurt.
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Kurt,
I would agree, some basic filing work would do the job on those straps. Then I can use them, along with the soldered-on tag.
Thank you for the explanation of differences between Extra Cooling and Standard radiators: a higher fin count per inch on the Extra Cooling version.
This info will help to achieve the correct results on the finished radiator.
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The extra cooling on a Shelby consists of the radiator as Kurt noted, the shroud (rectangular and oval FoMoCo logo, depending on date) and a slightly larger diameter 4 bladed fan.
I'm also seeing a plate just below the radiator water inlet with a round hole. I thought this was indicative of an original core, but I'm unsure. Can anyone verify or disprove?
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The extra cooling on a Shelby consists of the radiator as Kurt noted, the shroud (rectangular and oval FoMoCo logo, depending on date) and a slightly larger diameter 4 bladed fan.
I'm also seeing a plate just below the radiator water inlet with a round hole. I thought this was indicative of an original core, but I'm unsure. Can anyone verify or disprove?
You forgot to mention the fan spacer which was a different length on a extra cooling radiator car.
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I did and it's only 5 feet from me!
Hopefully mine is stock. It has a number 2 above the Dorman wings and has a circled Ford logo on the nose (or pilot).
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I did and it's only 5 feet from me!
Hopefully mine is stock. It has a number 2 above the Dorman wings and has a circled Ford logo on the nose (or pilot).
C4AE -8546-F is the correct one used on the 67 GT350 without AC ,however there are no engineering numbers to identify it and more then one MFG too. 2.74 is the correct measurement . Most owners make the mistake of using the 2.36 one typically used on the hipo. The correct one is visibly longer and easy to tell when looking at a car. I forgot to say a made up a few to have on the shelf.
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That part number jives with my Vehicle Order sheet for its DSO (84-2571).
It's odd that the MPC says "including pilot", since that's not a very good measurement.
One would think the dimension would be machined face to machined face, but including the pilot works well at the parts counter.
I have the 2.74 version including pilot with about .04 being the Ford script!
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That part number jives with my Vehicle Order sheet for its DSO (84-2571).
It's odd that the MPC says "including pilot", since that's not a very good measurement.
One would think the dimension would be machined face to machined face, but including the pilot works well at the parts counter.
I have the 2.74 version including pilot with about .04 being the Ford script!
The important measurement is machine face to machine face because that indexes the the position of the fan blade but I don't make the rules.
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... The main difference in standard vs extra cooling radiator was in the fins per inch specification and otherwise look the same.
Can anyone comment, for 1967, the difference in fin-count-per-inch between Standard and Extra Cooling W MO radiators?
(Here's a recent forum thread related to the above question: 1967 Extra Cooling http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=18897.msg119384#msg119384 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=18897.msg119384#msg119384). )
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Can anyone comment, for 1967, the difference in fin-count-per-inch between Standard and Extra Cooling W MO radiators?
(Here's a recent forum thread related to the above question: 1967 Extra Cooling http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=18897.msg119384#msg119384 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=18897.msg119384#msg119384). )
My comment is that I believe the default replacement cores available are of the higher fin count per inch .