ConcoursMustang Forums

1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: travnemi on June 27, 2015, 11:30:41 AM

Title: 1967 390 Fan Clutch Questions/Discussion
Post by: travnemi on June 27, 2015, 11:30:41 AM
Thanks Bob,
- J_Speegle posted the fan clutch part number required for my car. Hopefully this is correct, it took a while to locate this one. If not, would you have a correct part number for it?
- I'll locate a new Alt. fan, would you know how many vanes?
- the P/S dipstick had printing stamped into the metal or printing on the paint. Does the dipstick need to be chrome?

Thanks you for helping me make this the best it can be,
Travis
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 27, 2015, 01:34:02 PM
Thanks Bob,
- J_Speegle posted the fan clutch part number required for my car. Hopefully this is correct, it took a while to locate this one. If not, would you have a correct part number for it?
- I'll locate a new Alt. fan, would you know how many vanes?
- the P/S dipstick had printing stamped into the metal or printing on the paint. Does the dipstick need to be chrome?

Thanks you for helping me make this the best it can be,
Travis
The part number /engineering number may be the same between two different vendors. The specifications (physical appearance ) can be slightly different between the two parts as in the case of your fan clutch. If it was a different plant I wouldn't be so skeptical but I have seen a lot of SJ 67 Shelby's and non Shelby cars. It may be a lesser used mfg for that plant but not typical from my observations.
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 27, 2015, 01:39:23 PM
Thanks Bob,
- J_Speegle posted the fan clutch part number required for my car. Hopefully this is correct, it took a while to locate this one. If not, would you have a correct part number for it?
- I'll locate a new Alt. fan, would you know how many vanes?
- the P/S dipstick had printing stamped into the metal or printing on the paint. Does the dipstick need to be chrome?

Thanks you for helping me make this the best it can be,
Travis
NPD or Mansfield sells the Alt fan. P/S dipstick has printing stamped into the metal of the thumb handle . A black TRW pump and handle are detailed as you have it .You do have the bare metal witness line on the filler neck under the dipstick? It would have that from painting the assembled pump with the dipstick inserted.
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: travnemi on June 27, 2015, 06:16:27 PM
Bob,
Thank you for all your help. On the other post I had a couple of questions on the carb.
Do you have a part number on that fan clutch?
Just to make sure I understand you correctly, the Alternator needs 13 fan blades, mine currently has 10 blade.

Thanks again for all your help,
Travis
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: Bob Gaines on June 28, 2015, 01:52:26 AM
Bob,
Thank you for all your help. On the other post I had a couple of questions on the carb.
Do you have a part number on that fan clutch?
Just to make sure I understand you correctly, the Alternator needs 13 fan blades, mine currently has 10 blade.

Thanks again for all your help,
Travis
If you want to call on carb details PM me. It is too much to type. The fan clutch front cover is the point I was trying to make. That front cover is typical for many different fan clutches used at SJ regardless of part number . Is the one you have a C7ZE-A? Mansfield as well as others sell the correct alternator fan. http://mansfieldmustang.com/06-10.JPG  Yours is a 70 and later.
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: J_Speegle on June 28, 2015, 10:53:56 PM
Think the style of clutch may be due to a secondary supplier. Have seen the rectangle style "sensor" in the middle before with appropriate dates for a 67. 

Here are a couple of examples from my collection.

Markings recorded from this part is as follows
C6ME -A fan L66 
Clutch C7AE-11-18-66

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-280615204524.jpeg)


(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-280615204552.jpeg)




And a C7AE-A  fan clutch example - think this is the same one I posted pictures of last year when we first visited this subject

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-280615205005.jpeg)


(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-280615205221.jpeg)


Just based on observation it appears that Ford didn't use this company or the design changed since they are not as easy to find as the others. Think the circular spring style might be easier to rebuild also
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: travnemi on July 05, 2015, 10:09:20 PM
Do I have the correct Alternator pulley on the Alt. I have a two belt pulley on it. As a reminder, I have a 1967 GTA S Code non A/C Dec build assembled in San Jose.

Thanks,
Travis
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: J_Speegle on July 05, 2015, 11:19:20 PM
Do I have the correct Alternator pulley on the Alt. I have a two belt pulley on it. As a reminder, I have a 1967 GTA S Code non A/C Dec build assembled in San Jose.

PS and Therm :)

Looks like

1- Two belts around the crank, water pump and alternator
2- One belt around the water pump and Thermactor pump
3- One belt around crank and P/S pump

http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=5294.0 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=5294.0)
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: travnemi on July 05, 2015, 11:54:21 PM
Jeff,
  I have located the PS and alternator belts, I cant seem to locate a part number or a place that sells a smog pump belt. would you have any suggestions?

Thanks,
Travis
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: J_Speegle on July 06, 2015, 12:30:11 AM
Jeff,
  I have located the PS and alternator belts, I cant seem to locate a part number or a place that sells a smog pump belt. would you have any suggestions?

Looks like it's going to take some hunting but as a help/start it appears that C5TE-8620-L is what your looking for 36 1/4" x 1/2"
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: travnemi on July 06, 2015, 01:19:17 AM
Thanks Jeff!!!
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: travnemi on July 08, 2015, 09:24:32 PM
I forgot to ask earlier, is the distributor hold down clamp painted engine blue or is it natural? I tried looking it up but didn't have any success.

Travis
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: J_Speegle on July 08, 2015, 10:24:19 PM
I forgot to ask earlier, is the distributor hold down clamp painted engine blue or is it natural?

Unpainted oiled steel
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: travnemi on July 14, 2015, 12:36:29 AM
I believe I found a new old Fan Clutch it has a Ford Part # C4SZ-8A616-B which is model numbers C7AE-A and C7AE-C. The only question I have is that there's no model number stamped on rim of the mounting bracket. Can anyone tell me if this is correct one? Also, the only location that the part number was on the box it came in.

Thanks,
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: Bob Gaines on July 14, 2015, 12:57:22 AM
I believe I found a new old Fan Clutch it has a Ford Part # C4SZ-8A616-B which is model numbers C7AE-A and C7AE-C. The only question I have is that there's no model number stamped on rim of the mounting bracket. Can anyone tell me if this is correct one? Also, the only location that the part number was on the box it came in.

Thanks,
First off it is a service replacement built after 1968 based on the design of the front cover . Not too bad a thing since it hard to see once installed. Turn it sideways and take a picture . A short shaft is typical of assemblyline for a 390 , one with the longer shaft is designed as a service compromise to be used on both BB and SB applications
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: travnemi on July 14, 2015, 01:03:14 AM
Here's a side view of it. Damn! This clutch is going to be the death of me!!! If my wife doesn't kill me first.

Thanks for the info though.
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: Bob Gaines on July 14, 2015, 01:36:19 AM
Here's a side view of it. Damn! This clutch is going to be the death of me!!! If my wife doesn't kill me first.

Thanks for the info though.
Yes that is the later service replacement designed for use with both the BB and the SB . The assemblyline one is shorter. Just enough room to get the bolts to go into the holes of the mounting flange. It will work and not many will know that it is a service part . It should have a engineering number on the flange however but not many will spot that ether.
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: travnemi on July 14, 2015, 02:00:08 AM
I wired brushed the flange, and it''s blank. What a bummer!!!

Is it correct that I need the C7AE-C? OR Is the C7ZE-B?

Thanks
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: Bob Gaines on July 14, 2015, 03:17:21 AM
I wired brushed the flange, and it''s blank. What a bummer!!!

Is it correct that I need the C7AE-C? OR Is the C7ZE-B?

Thanks
I would have thought C7AE-A
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: Bob Gaines on July 14, 2015, 03:27:31 AM
I revisited the picture on the first page and noticed you had a fuel pump with a canister. That would only be used if there was not a fuel filter at the carb. In 67 a filter was used at the carb.Your engine should not have the fuel filter at the pump but it would be a button top style (without a screw on filter can) with CAR bure TER markings.
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: travnemi on July 14, 2015, 10:57:49 AM
Thanks for the info on the fuel pump, I'll get that changed out.

Here's the info from Mustang Tek.

So you believe I need a C7AE-A, I'll keep looking.
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: Bob Gaines on July 14, 2015, 02:58:35 PM
Thanks for the info on the fuel pump, I'll get that changed out.

Here's the info from Mustang Tek.

So you believe I need a C7AE-A, I'll keep looking.
I may be mistaken on the engineering number so I will double check my 1968 MPC . I know better what it is suppose to look like then the engineering number committed to memory. I just know that the 67 Mustang 390 fan clutch is commonly substituted for the quickly obsoleted 67 Shelby fan clutch of the same physical dimension which is what I regularly deal with.  Mustangtek is a good resource many times but the info can not be taken as totally correct on every entry. There are gaps in information as there are gaps in mine in dealing with regular Mustang. Posts like this force me to sharpen my skills  ;) . 
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: J_Speegle on July 14, 2015, 04:56:25 PM
Here's the info from Mustang Tek.

So you believe I need a C7AE-A, I'll keep looking.

That's the one shown in reply #20 :)
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: travnemi on July 14, 2015, 07:26:30 PM
Jeff, the only reason I keep questioning it, is the C7AE-A has the longer shaft. Bob was saying that the original shaft for that year had the shorter shaft. The C7ZE-B had the shorter shaft.

I really appreciate you and bob helping me with this. Sorry about beating this subject into the ground.

Travis
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: J_Speegle on July 14, 2015, 09:09:51 PM
Think what Bob is saying  (he'll correct me if I misunderstood) that the service replacement that you showed has too long of  a shaft. Not sure that the original C7AE-A made in 67 was the same length

As you reported the one you showed did not have the stamped markings on the mounting hub
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: WT8095 on July 15, 2015, 05:20:39 PM
Jeff, the only reason I keep questioning it, is the C7AE-A has the longer shaft. Bob was saying that the original shaft for that year had the shorter shaft. The C7ZE-B had the shorter shaft.

I really appreciate you and bob helping me with this. Sorry about beating this subject into the ground.

Travis

The '75 MPC appears to show C7ZE-B.
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: Bob Gaines on July 15, 2015, 10:13:58 PM
The '75 MPC appears to show C7ZE-B.
Thanks for saving me from some book work today I was putting off.  The 2.91 is a shorter length so that would seem right if the 2.91 distance is from the pulley side of the hub or flange and the other end measurement is the front face of the clutch. The longer style puts the fan too close to the radiator where it is less efficient and hard to fool with. The longer one will work but is a compromise and is not what was engineered for all of the variables. If you can't find a presentable Ford one Chris Brown has had that style reproduced in excellent detail. As I said before there were a number of different BB Mustang/Shelby applications that used the same physical dimensions
. He is set up to stamp the other more in demand numbers but you may be able to get him to stamp the C7ZE-B for a additional charge .
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: WT8095 on July 15, 2015, 10:35:37 PM
Thanks for saving me from some book work today I was putting off.

No problem, I kind of enjoy it. I don't have access to do "hands-on" research on unrestored vehicles like some of you, so I do what I can to contribute in other ways. My day job interpreting drawings and part numbers for some 200+ customers in the medical device industry helps somewhat. You can't imagine some of the the goofy things I see on drawings...  :o  ::)
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: J_Speegle on July 15, 2015, 11:12:28 PM
The '75 MPC appears to show C7ZE-B.

(Reposted - with picture added)
Since I've got a MPC open :)


(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-180715154358.jpeg)


Just for comparison the April 68 MPC is posted above

To me its reporting

- That the originals started out the production year marked C7ZE-A then replaced during Feb 67 with ones marked C7ZE-B

- Later (in December fan clutches marked C7ZE-A) were "replaced" in the service parts system (NOS) by fan clutches with part number   C7OZ-8A616-C - No identification markings listed 

All 2.91" in length


So for the OP it looks like either C7ZE-A  or C7ZE-B marked fan clutches could have been original according to that text.
Guess the engineering drawings could be looked at if we pay attention to the date the reference page was printed or changed on

Sorry for any confusion - not the easiest thing to read and understand with the replacing and substitutions going on
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: Bob Gaines on July 16, 2015, 12:49:44 AM
Since I've got a MPC open :)

Just for comparison the April 68 MPC shows that the originals started out the production year marked C7ZE-A then replaced during Dec 67 with ones marked C7ZE-C

Part number for the -C  (which was used on the later 67's and as a replacement for the -A)  is listed as  C7OXZ-8A616-B

All 2.91" in length


So for the OP it looks like either C7ZE-A  or C7ZE-C marked fan clutches could have been original according to that text.
Guess the engineering drawings could be looked at if we pay attention to the date the reference page was printed or changed on
C7ZE-A makes the most sense to me given the build of the engine in question and from the suffix is the first in the engineering development. That is the one I am thinking of and misspoke thinking C7AE . The shorter C7ZE-A is the one commonly used to replace the non serviced C7ZX used on the Shelby's which I see commonly .
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: WT8095 on July 18, 2015, 09:23:02 AM
Just for comparison the April 68 MPC shows that the originals started out the production year marked C7ZE-A then replaced during Dec 67 with ones marked C7ZE-C

Did you mean Dec. 66?
Title: Re: Re: 1967 390 engine bracket questions
Post by: J_Speegle on July 18, 2015, 01:41:40 PM
Did you mean Dec. 66?

Went back - posted a picture of that section and adjusted my wording.  This should explain why the different dates.  If I missed anything lets "talk" and figure this out  - if need be.

Also splitting the discussion since the fan clutch discussion has taken over (now 3 pages) the discussion for members and lurkers in the future :)