ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: livetoride60 on September 16, 2015, 08:15:37 PM
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Was wondering what color the backside (trunk facing) of my trapdoor would have originally been for my Oct 64 San Jose fastback. Interior is white / black, code D6. Front side of trapdoor was white, but backside was covered with carpet. Unfortunately the body shop media blasted the trapdoor before I could look.
The first two pictures are my car. It looks like the hinges were originally white, and then may have had their lower halves painted black, I assume during an amateur resto. From the hinges, could I assume it was white originally?
The last two pics are from Jeff of a black trapdoor and from ChrisV of what looks like an ivy green from his car. (Hope it was ok to repost). Also note that it appears the hinges were ivy green as well in the last pic, matching the trapdoor color.
Finally, what would the paint finish be? Looks like a satin or dulled like other interior pieces.
Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Rich
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Close up of the hinge. Looks like original white with black paint or black adhesive slopped on the bottom. I maybe can make out white behind the hinge too.
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If the fiber glass panels in the back are white so is the trap door on both sides...Mine is pretty flat not gloss really (color code 28). OK to re-post my pics ;)
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Back side of the trap door is the same as the interior. The "fiberglass" side panels have nothing to do with it - originally they would be unpainted on the back side - sort of a light tan finish that matched the base color of the material used to make them. Ford/the supplier didn't paint he back sides so they often contrast and are something just about every judge checks as they are often painted :(
Example - Interior is black
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-170915003913.jpeg)
Finish would be exactly (same paint and painter) as the interior. Closer to satin (very slight shine in the right light and angle) often referred to as egg shell in today's terms
On this year hinges were painted the same color/finish but before they were attached to the trap door or car
65 San Jose white interior example
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-170915003928.jpeg)
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Thanks Jeff and Chris.
Another one, is the finish on those hinge screws P & O? They look dark.
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On an early '66 SJ car, they are red.
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Another one, is the finish on those hinge screws P & O? They look dark.
They were a dark flat finish from just a look (not testing ;) I believe P & O would reproduce the look well
From 5R150xxx
Sure someone will notice the factory runs (not typical) and the direction of travel
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-170915175326-4525239.jpeg)
Since their related and they may help you or someone in the future here are a couple of extras ;)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-170915175322-45221072.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-170915175330-45262237.jpeg)
On an early '66 SJ car, they are red.
Never seen that before on an unrestored car. The red die didn't get wide usage until 68 following the strike
Not sure why the trap door would be a safety issue
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Jeff - yes, restored car using AMK hardware kit. I don't know where Max got the idea these were red. The assembly manual shows S2 (P&O) finish on these.
The red looks cool though doesn't it? :D
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Jeff - yes, restored car using AMK hardware kit. I don't know where Max got the idea these were red. The assembly manual shows S2 (P&O) finish on these.
The red looks cool though doesn't it? :D
Would guess that he's just selling one hardware set for two or more purposes. Looks like they are the same size as the ones used to hold the 69-70 rear seat (sportroof) latches to the body and those were dyed red as a safety measure
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Would guess that he's just selling one hardware set for two or more purposes. Looks like they are the same size as the ones used to hold the 69-70 rear seat (sportroof) latches to the body and those were dyed red as a safety measure
In one of a few conversations with AMK, they indicated that the hardware they sold was based on the Ford Car Parts books (aka MPC, years unknown), which did not reflect what the factory used for initial assembly, but what Ford supplied to dealers for service use. If the difference was plating on several hardware items, low use items not plated were included in higher use items that were. Ford did that to reduce inventory counts, inventory costs and space requirement. Part of their "inventory plan" was to establish minimum order quantities too, hence the infamous "bag of five" of something that you ordered that had a use of one or six. This bag quantity was for a replacement at a dealership, not a restoration in your garage.
Jim
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At some point the hardware and hinge for the trap door was changed,
smaller screw from my Oct 64 Dearborn build.
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At some point the hardware and hinge for the trap door was changed,
smaller screw from my Oct 64 Dearborn build.
So yours is the upper set of screws?
The first one I posted was from late (24th - projected) Oct 64 San Jose for comparison.
Guess we need to look at earlier fastbacks to find the trend - Believe that the smaller was the earlier.
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So yours is the upper set of screws?
The first one I posted was from late (24th - projected) Oct 64 San Jose for comparison.
Guess we need to look at earlier fastbacks to find the trend - Believe that the smaller was the earlier.
Jeff, yes, my Oct 64 Dearborn had the smaller/darker screws pictured next to the red hinge.
The larger screw and hinge came with a trap door I picked up in a parts lot so can't verify its origin.
The slotted holes in the black hinge for the screws is larger than the slots in the red hinge .
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There are two screws in question, 55589-S2, 8-32X1/2 hex sems, and 55590-S2, 10-24X1/2 hex sems. My Oct 65 San Jose 66 Fastback uses 55590-S2 (10-24), my May 65 San Jose 65 Fastback uses 55589-S2 (8-32). This size problem came up for me last month on a friends two 65 San Jose Fastbacks he's getting back on the road, one an Oct 64 build, the other a January 65 build. Both use 55589-S2 (8-32). The 65 Body Assembly Manual (page 47), rev date 4-22-65 (barely legible), shows 55590-S2 (item J) but no reference as to if or when it was changed. This may be another "use existing inventory first" situation. I cannot verify if my 65 Fastback trap door is original.
Jim
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Difficult to make out the difference in just a picture. Guess the start washer is the visual tell-tell sign/key for a quick determination.
Not sure if this is a "use existing inventory first" since it appears that this is not a stand alone detail and may connect to the larger holed hinge and mounting holes/nuts.
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Since their related and they may help you or someone in the future here are a couple of extras ;)
The trapdoor hardware Jeff posted in reply #6 match the ones from my San Jose fastback - Oct 9, 1964 scheduled build date, Oct 18, 1964 engine assembly stamp.
Believed to be original.
L to R (threaded part measured, i.e. under cap to end):
Trapdoor Hinge screws: 3/8" x 8-32 (P&O?, no head mark)
Trapdoor Latch screws: 1/2" x 8-32 (Silver Zinc?, SEMS head mark)
Trapdoor Prop bolts: 3/8" x 1/4-20 (Silver Zinc?, R in circle head mark)
I think the bigger feat was getting them to balance on my leg. :)
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...and yes, the body shop blasted the 2 on the right with sand before I realized... :o
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Same screws on my Oct 29th schedule build SJ fastback...
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We should be pretty well prepared to answer just about any Oct San Jose questions here on the site given the current membership ;)
Well represented :)