ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Processes, Products & Techniques => Topic started by: kammertime on October 27, 2015, 09:35:06 AM
-
I was thinking about replacing all the glass on my Boss project with date coded glass. I cleaned all the glass as I was recording the date codes and was surprised to see how nice all the glass is. I am now thinking it would be better to polish out the minor scratches that I have. I have tried Eastwood's kits in the past with no luck.
Has anybody had their glass professionally polished and if so what company did you use ? I found this company on an internet search:
http://glassrestorationinc.com/car-glass-repaired.php
Thanks,
John
-
I used a local place in the Raleigh, NC area a few times, not sure if they're still in business. Was a mom-n-pop type.
Your glass has to be extremely nice to get show quality results. Any pits or chips, especially in side/rear glass will not come out. I've found that they can be a bit more aggressive with windshield glass though, but it's tough to get out road rash.
I've tried the eastwood kit in the past, all it seemed good for is to get out water spots.
-
I would be very interested to know what path you take to get your glass restored. I have some scratches in my 72 glass and would prefer to retain the original as well.
-
I would be interested as well. I have quite a few pieces of 2nd gen. Camaro glass that has the usual fine scratches from the too stiff window seals. I may wind up disposing of them.
-
My understanding (from reading many posts in the past) is that results are not very good. You have to remember that you don't remove the scratch, you remove material from around the scratch to get it down to the same level. In the extreme case, you'll see this distortion when complete.
-
+1 to Dave. I polished out a wiper scratch on a Mustang's really nice windshield using a polishing powder as a paste, 2" solid felt pad in a 7" Craftsman polisher. I did this 30 plus years ago. It took me between 2 & 3 hrs. before I was satisfied the scratch was no longer visible. First time I drove the car and got a light reflection on where I had polished I could see the groove I created. It wasn't real noticeable except to me every time I looked at the or through the windshield.
My son and I tried the same thing a few years later on the windshield of his 65 Falcon. Windshield was out of the car on firm cushions. We were doing great and almost done when a drop of water off of the water bottle landed right on the scratch we were polishing out. The crack in the hot glass was instantaneous. At least the cold beer afterwards was good.
-
I was looking into this concept again earlier this summer when I pulled all of the frames off of my side glass and began to clean all of them up, I was rather shocked to see how truly horrible they really were! I had already realized an issue on the inside of my back glass about a year or so ago and now have two date correct back glasses, BOTH with some rather serious scratches so I began to doubt I could ever find a set of dated windows for my Coupe that would be worth installing in the project.
ALL 7 windows NEW, and adding the dates to them seem to be absurd, I know I have no choice on the windshield but my budget would never allow for ALL NEW GLASS on the whole car.
FIRST: I tried finding a glass shop to do polishing. No luck. I tried local car restoration shops and the Internet for somebody in the 100 mile radius to take them to and nobody even returned calls or emails. Then, like others, I tried the $80 Eastwood Deep Scratch Kit and using a drill motor, results were essentially a swing and a miss. 2nd, I tried the same Eastwood kit on a buffer/polisher and had a friend who does granite/monument work and his guy gave the same window I had worked on about an hour, then gave it back saying he's not interesting in doing more. It had signs of improvement but the outlook for doing all of the glass was very grim at best.
Once again, I went to the Internet and found a guy named Pedro in Florida doing a YouTube video and it looked like not only him, but there were companies and individuals everywhere doing glass polishing successfully with similar discs like the ones found in the Eastwood kit and/or cerium oxide (powder or solution)... on buildings at least, and the results looked rather amazing, not causing distortion in the final product either. Yet, when I tried calling anyone, even Pedro of Florida, no return calls or emails when I stated I wanted to do Classic Car Glass.
I believed now that the real issue was Liability. Nobody wanted to take a chance on my "Classic Car. Date-Correct Glass".
Eventually, one guy somewhat local to me, DID call me back at least. He said he ONLY did architectural work (on buildings) and was only insured for the same but was having extremely good success using the GlassRenu System on those jobs.
I had already looked into GlassRenu Systems, I had even given them a call and asked for recommendations for local companies (this is where I got the name of the guy who ended up calling me back from).
So, I tried rolling the dice again. This time, I bought GlassRenu's "Professional Grade Scratch Removal System" (cost $250 +shipping).
BINGO! Now, it was recommended to use a variable-speed buffer in the many YouTube Videos on GlassRenu that I had watched and the variable buffer most often recommended was a Mikita variable-speed. I liked and trusted this choice since they offered the "numbers" on the wheel to help you to get to the correct RPM's for maximum success. Having bought that too, I am over $500 into this mess...So much for saving money, right?
The difference now is that I am successfully removing EVERY deep gouge and every single scratch and I am actually succeeding in removing sand-damage too! (My car was in the desert area all of it's driven life).
If you want to spend the money on new glass, that may be the "easy button" but since I was also hoping to retain all of the original glass without ALSO having the added cost/time to add in the etchings onto new glass, I feel it was the best choice to just buy this kit.
Be sure to set aside a weekend or three. You can put between 1 to 3 hours each window. (Actually less on some that have minimal issues). I think the time spent depends on how brave you are in process. You kinda learn as you go along what works best on what kind of damage so the learning curve may vary.
My glass at this time is progressing very well. The BLACK DISCS sent in the kit really do a lot of major work getting the glass readied for polishing, they are probably the most effective part of the process in the scratch removal process. Now, I have found some very deep pits from rock/gravel impacts that would take more time to remove but I have removed some VERY DEEP GOUGES, all minor sand-damage pitting and even DA sander damage (looked like 80-grit Da sander kissed a window at one time) and ALL of that came out 100% perfect in my opinion...NO DISTORTION I can detect at all.
The "Grey Discs" are the most "consumable" item in the kit. I have since bought a 2nd 10-pack. My glass was in some cases as bad on the insides as it was on the outsides and I did not wish to use the black disks much at first, for fear of them being to aggressive but in hind-sight...I could have saved time and money had I chose to just do the whole window areas with extreme damage, using the black discs FIRST.
You should like the results. I really struggle to notice any issues at all with the glass now and everything I find wrong, a bit more time seems to ALWAYS remedy the problem...As I said, my glass was BAD NEWS, REALLY BAD NEWS to begin with!
The hardest choice I made was whether or not to buff through a Carlite Logo on the wing vents since the sand damage was on the logo-side of the glass on them. One side vent, I buffed through the damage including the logo etching and the other side, I did not (yet) buff through the logo but you can still make out the sand-damage. You will likely have similar choices ;)
If you are thinking about this, do a search on YouTube for "GlassRenu" and watch some of the videos.
-
I was looking into this concept again earlier this summer when I pulled all of the frames off of my side glass and began to clean all of them up, I was rather shocked to see how truly horrible they really were! I had already realized an issue on the inside of my back glass about a year or so ago and now have two date correct back glasses, BOTH with some rather serious scratches so I began to doubt I could ever find a set of dated windows for my Coupe that would be worth installing in the project.
ALL 7 windows NEW, and adding the dates to them seem to be absurd, I know I have no choice on the windshield but my budget would never allow for ALL NEW GLASS on the whole car.
FIRST: I tried finding a glass shop to do polishing. No luck. I tried local car restoration shops and the Internet for somebody in the 100 mile radius to take them to and nobody even returned calls or emails. Then, like others, I tried the $80 Eastwood Deep Scratch Kit and using a drill motor, results were essentially a swing and a miss. 2nd, I tried the same Eastwood kit on a buffer/polisher and had a friend who does granite/monument work and his guy gave the same window I had worked on about an hour, then gave it back saying he's not interesting in doing more. It had signs of improvement but the outlook for doing all of the glass was very grim at best.
Once again, I went to the Internet and found a guy named Pedro in Florida doing a YouTube video and it looked like not only him, but there were companies and individuals everywhere doing glass polishing successfully with similar discs like the ones found in the Eastwood kit and/or cerium oxide (powder or solution)... on buildings at least, and the results looked rather amazing, not causing distortion in the final product either. Yet, when I tried calling anyone, even Pedro of Florida, no return calls or emails when I stated I wanted to do Classic Car Glass.
I believed now that the real issue was Liability. Nobody wanted to take a chance on my "Classic Car. Date-Correct Glass".
Eventually, one guy somewhat local to me, DID call me back at least. He said he ONLY did architectural work (on buildings) and was only insured for the same but was having extremely good success using the GlassRenu System on those jobs.
I had already looked into GlassRenu Systems, I had even given them a call and asked for recommendations for local companies (this is where I got the name of the guy who ended up calling me back from).
So, I tried rolling the dice again. This time, I bought GlassRenu's "Professional Grade Scratch Removal System" (cost $250 +shipping).
BINGO! Now, it was recommended to use a variable-speed buffer in the many YouTube Videos on GlassRenu that I had watched and the variable buffer most often recommended was a Mikita variable-speed. I liked and trusted this choice since they offered the "numbers" on the wheel to help you to get to the correct RPM's for maximum success. Having bought that too, I am over $500 into this mess...So much for saving money, right?
The difference now is that I am successfully removing EVERY deep gouge and every single scratch and I am actually succeeding in removing sand-damage too! (My car was in the desert area all of it's driven life).
If you want to spend the money on new glass, that may be the "easy button" but since I was also hoping to retain all of the original glass without ALSO having the added cost/time to add in the etchings onto new glass, I feel it was the best choice to just buy this kit.
Be sure to set aside a weekend or three. You can put between 1 to 3 hours each window. (Actually less on some that have minimal issues). I think the time spent depends on how brave you are in process. You kinda learn as you go along what works best on what kind of damage so the learning curve may vary.
My glass at this time is progressing very well. The BLACK DISCS sent in the kit really do a lot of major work getting the glass readied for polishing, they are probably the most effective part of the process in the scratch removal process. Now, I have found some very deep pits from rock/gravel impacts that would take more time to remove but I have removed some VERY DEEP GOUGES, all minor sand-damage pitting and even DA sander damage (looked like 80-grit Da sander kissed a window at one time) and ALL of that came out 100% perfect in my opinion...NO DISTORTION I can detect at all.
The "Grey Discs" are the most "consumable" item in the kit. I have since bought a 2nd 10-pack. My glass was in some cases as bad on the insides as it was on the outsides and I did not wish to use the black disks much at first, for fear of them being to aggressive but in hind-sight...I could have saved time and money had I chose to just do the whole window areas with extreme damage, using the black discs FIRST.
You should like the results. I really struggle to notice any issues at all with the glass now and everything I find wrong, a bit more time seems to ALWAYS remedy the problem...As I said, my glass was BAD NEWS, REALLY BAD NEWS to begin with!
The hardest choice I made was whether or not to buff through a Carlite Logo on the wing vents since the sand damage was on the logo-side of the glass on them. One side vent, I buffed through the damage including the logo etching and the other side, I did not (yet) buff through the logo but you can still make out the sand-damage. You will likely have similar choices ;)
If you are thinking about this, do a search on YouTube for "GlassRenu" and watch some of the videos.
Richard, you have sparked my interest with your in depth report and testimonial . I look forward to giving it a try. Thanks so much for taking the time.
-
I was looking into this concept again earlier this summer when I pulled all of the frames off of my side glass and began to clean all of them up, I was rather shocked to see how truly horrible they really were! I had already realized an issue on the inside of my back glass about a year or so ago and now have two date correct back glasses, BOTH with some rather serious scratches so I began to doubt I could ever find a set of dated windows for my Coupe that would be worth installing in the project. ................... If you are thinking about this, do a search on YouTube for "GlassRenu" and watch some of the videos.
Thanks for the write up maybe it will be the answer to some members challenges and provide them with some motivation to give it a try
-
Guess I'm a bit skeptical regarding waves/distortions after buffing. Taking out DA marks and scratches deep enough to catch a fingernail require a lot of material to be removed.
Have you taken the glass outside on sunny and overcast days and stepped back for a good look at varying angles?
-
Guess I'm a bit skeptical regarding waves/distortions after buffing. Taking out DA marks and scratches deep enough to catch a fingernail require a lot of material to be removed.
Have you taken the glass outside on sunny and overcast days and stepped back for a good look at varying angles?
Yes, very much time and focus spent at varying amounts of light to varying amounts of shadowing, using different sources of light including natural, cloudy days, direct sunlight, florescent lighting and LED lighting. Watch some of the youtube videos. You cannot imagine how skeptical I was and how extremely concerned it would be a waste of money and time. I feel it is a gamble that paid off.
-
Keep in mind, all glass is "bare", no surround moldings on the door glass or others. Holding down the vent glass and the small triangle-shaped quarter windows was tricky.
I bought quantity of 4, 3-inch suction cups and mounted them to a strip of plywood, works excellent on the long door glass but not so well on the small ones. Good to have a 2nd set of hands that can figure out your polishing patterns and therefore stay out of your way while holding them onto the suction cups. I feared when working alone I would shoot one of those puppies across the room or into the steel framework of my work station!
-
Guess I'm a bit skeptical regarding waves/distortions after buffing. Taking out DA marks and scratches deep enough to catch a fingernail require a lot of material to be removed.
My concern also. Know I saw some reproduction glass on a car earlier this year that had waves in the glass also if you got the angle just right. Wouldn't be happy with that after money and or time was spent
-
My concern also. Know I saw some reproduction glass on a car earlier this year that had waves in the glass also if you got the angle just right. Wouldn't be happy with that after money and or time was spent
I suppose that could happen, pending the process followed but using a 5-inch disc and shaving the whole window (as I ended up doing), pretty much reduces the chances. Remember, I had light sandblasting so I went across the whole window over the outsides anyways.
-
Richard,
Thanks for sharing. I can attest that the Eastwood polishing kits are good for almost nothing. I suppose they cleaned up my glass real nice, removing some of the remnants of the adhesive/sealant from the rear glass weatherstrip. But plenty of products would do that.
If my glass was still out, I would be driving them down to oh-hi-oh to put you to work, reimbursed of course.
The other thing to consider is that with your equipment, experience, steady hand, lack of fear, and results you might find people inquiring about this is a service. I would pay for it, and I consider myself as one who wants to do it all myself, farming out only what I have to. Regarding risk, if someone has original glass as bad as yours, why not try to save it for the cost of one way shipping and a couple hours work. If a piece doesn't pan out, you toss it and there is no return shipping. Then they go out and get a replacement, what they would be doing anyway.
-
... This time, I bought GlassRenu's "Professional Grade Scratch Removal System" (cost $250 +shipping). ....
Just did a quick WEB search and did not find anything that matched this product. Where might I find it?
Thanks.
-
Found this on google
https://glassrenu.com/consumer/
-
All I remember is if you drag a fingernail across a scratch in the glass and you can feel it "snag", the glass is beyond help, otherwise, try Eastwood for buffing stuff.
Jim
-
Guess I'm a bit skeptical regarding waves/distortions after buffing. Taking out DA marks and scratches deep enough to catch a fingernail require a lot of material to be removed...
My concern also. Know I saw some reproduction glass on a car earlier this year that had waves in the glass also if you got the angle just right. Wouldn't be happy with that after money and or time was spent
All I remember is if you drag a fingernail across a scratch in the glass and you can feel it "snag", the glass is beyond help, otherwise, try Eastwood for buffing stuff.
Jim
I do understand the concerns along the lines of the quotes above, considering the Concours Nature of this forum. The only true acid test is, if the glass doesn't look EXACTLY like new, and ONLY with the correct dates and correct logos, placed in the exact same location and on the same side of the glass as it would have been on the day the car was actually built, it stands the chance of taking deductions when it comes to the Show Field or Judging.
New is New. (Polished) Used glass will likely never pass examination under a microscope, I get that. If you want brand new dated glass then go through that process and buy the glass new and have it dated or leave it as was delivered (without dates). That option will yield you New Glass results, which, as I understand, fall short of "Concours" standards as well, most notably on TINTED glass, which is what I have been working on.
It all boils down to choices, we have to all make choices on our projects. When you consider that I began with "damaged beyond use" glass, I felt that anything I could do to re-use the original, dated glass ...getting it as close as practical to "exactly like brand-new" again, would better than the alternative choices IMHO.
This process DOES make it completely "usable" again, and probably nicer that you could ever expect if you had a "before" vs. "after" look at it in person. I did try and shoot a video of not only the damage but also the finished product but in neither video, could you really make out the full extent of either the damage nor the finished product. I was concerned that this endeavor would be dismal, that I would still be unhappy with the results. That concern has been removed. SEEING IS BELIEVING.
-
The other thing to consider is that with your equipment, experience, steady hand, lack of fear, and results you might find people inquiring about this is a service. I would pay for it, and I consider myself as one who wants to do it all myself, farming out only what I have to. Regarding risk, if someone has original glass as bad as yours, why not try to save it for the cost of one way shipping and a couple hours work. If a piece doesn't pan out, you toss it and there is no return shipping. Then they go out and get a replacement, what they would be doing anyway.
Thanks John.
I will first address the "Lack Of Fear" part of the comment. I knew my glass was bad enough to throw it all out, and I mean ALL out so the fear of buying new glass for the whole project must have been the recipe for courage. I suppose my fears of replacing ALL of the glass motivated my desire to at least try another process. I knew I could at very least use it as a business "write-off" on my taxes ;) Putting back all of the damaged side glass didn't seem wise either. After jumping "IN" to the GlassRenu idea and ordering the kit and a new, variable-speed buffer (elsewhere), my "FEARS" increased because now that I have spent the money, am I going to also ruin my glass too?
Then we have the "Doing This As A Service" aspect of your comment. Hmmm. I think the first thing that comes to mind is "How do you avoid angry customers with way too high of expectations?"
Since the time needed to do the "Try it and see how it comes out.", usually will require at least an hour or two PLUS the use of the scratch removal and pre-polishing discs that are not at all inexpensive either (polishing compound isn't too awfully expensive but the discs are), a person would be risking a few hundred dollars for "Maybe the customer will be happy with this" results.
As I mentioned in my previous comment, I am sure that under a magnifying lens, you will still find defects in the finished product, usually "more time" can eliminate that "defect" but people will want a "set price" for such a service. There really can be no "set price" because of the variables but more concerning would be that after spending a few hours, who would want to "Pay, to throw it away"? I imagine this is why contractors ONLY wish to do architectural jobs...Those jobs have likely already been quoted as "replacement glass" jobs too, yet the criteria for "perfection" is less stringent.
-
Understood - the risk lies with customer expectations. If I was in a similar position, with the options of "try it" or buy all new, I might start out with sending you one piece of window glass - side not vent (vent being too small to evaluate properly). Shipping would not be horrible. After a couple hours of work you report back whether the patient died on the operating table or will live a long life. Ship back. The customer can then decide if the patient will live a long and happy life. If happy, they can send you more glass. My guess is that the round trip plus hours might actually be cheaper than new glass. Plus as you mentioned, it would be "my" original glass. Not for everybody, but for some, perhaps.
-
I went to their website and noted they have a map showing shops across the country using their products. I emailed them to see if the shop advertised in my area was truly a shop or their advertisement to locate a vendor. Will wait and see. It may be worth the consideration of bringing your glass to a shop that has the equipment to avoid the higher cost of entry to give this a shot and the experience dealing with their process. Will see what options I have. I may contact the company listed in Atlanta and see if they can quote me.
-
I went to their website and noted they have a map showing shops across the country using their products. I emailed them to see if the shop advertised in my area was truly a shop or their advertisement to locate a vendor. Will wait and see. It may be worth the consideration of bringing your glass to a shop that has the equipment to avoid the higher cost of entry to give this a shot and the experience dealing with their process. Will see what options I have. I may contact the company listed in Atlanta and see if they can quote me.
I cannot imagine NOBODY would work on these windows for us on a local level but in the greater Cleveland/Pittsburgh area...ZILCH! I did not wish to ship these out, I wanted to drive them to a location for a quote and with that in mind, I got NO replies from anyone in my area.
Good luck!
-
They had this on their site as a customer testimonial.
had several deep scratches on the windshield of my BMW that were driving me crazy. I found GlassRenu and hired a local technician who was able to get the scratches out of the glass for less than $300 and the glass looks brand new. So glad I called, Thanks!
– Mike S. GA
Will see what happens?
-
Richard, I am curious if you found the side and rear tempered glass to be more difficult than the windshield which is laminated?
Kurt.
-
Richard, I am curious if you found the side and rear tempered glass to be more difficult than the windshield which is laminated?
Kurt.
I have not done a windshield yet.
Really, the tempered glass isn't at all difficult to even shave off minor to moderate sand damage if you start with the Black disc (dry process)and keep cleaning the glass dust out of the disc as you go, it obliterates the scratches in only a few seconds and depending how deep the sand damage, within a minutes/moments of beginning. The following steps, to step it back up to a luster of more or less like new, is where the time is spent. Double-up on the 10-pack sleeves of grey discs (also a dry step) and once you realize that "New Discs Are Your Friend" and you quit trying to being stingy with them, it will go rather quickly. You simply cannot "be cheap" on this step. When the grey disc step is done 'correctly", the final micro-polishing with the Cirium Oxide solution (wet step) goes by in under 10-minutes a side. The problem is, you might end up having to go back to the grey discs again, and possibly even again and again before you get all of the damage out...That can really tire you out fast since there are multiple movements of your whole body, trying to keep a constant and consistent movement going.
-
Sounds like all of that orchestrated body movement for long durations might have the side effect of making your body “buff” as well. Sorry, couldn’t resist.
-
Thanks for sharing all the info. It definitely sounds like a reasonable option.
I had one additional thing to add, just as a side note... I have heard that with aggressive buffing of tempered glass that the surface strength of the glass becomes weakened. I know of at least one case where buffed door glass was installed, had been ok for a while and then shattered out of the blue when the door was closed.
-
Thanks for sharing all the info. It definitely sounds like a reasonable option.
I had one additional thing to add, just as a side note... I have heard that with aggressive buffing of tempered glass that the surface strength of the glass becomes weakened. I know of at least one case where buffed door glass was installed, had been ok for a while and then shattered out of the blue when the door was closed.
Yes, I would think this could always a possibility. The instructions suggest thermal monitoring with a laser thermometer, perhaps this example you mentioned is a good reason why. Essentally, like not increasing over ambient temperature something like +40 degrees higher it seems they said.
and John:
That ship sailed off the edge of the earth!
-
I'm about ready to do this. Some questions.
Do I really have to remove the chrome trim at the top of the door window? I guess I do since a 3-5" pad won't get all of the glass in the corners. Huh -- answered that myself.
The side windows are curved yet the instructions want you keep the pad flat. Now what?
How easy was the stainless to remove? My vent came out more fairly easy. But this thing is long. I recall using something slimy to pour around the stainless. Do I remember that right?
I wondered how I got so clever about mounting suction cups to plywood and then I re-read this and see where that idea comes from. Thanks.
-
Clamp the glass using a wood vise, take a block of wood against the stainless trim and tap around, it comes right off.
Put tape over the logo. Be absolutely sure you cover the correct side, ask me how I know ::)
Use 3-inch discs on concave glass. It is a lot more time-consuming doing the insides because of the curve. Practice on a spare glass. The outsides are much easier. The insides of the windshield can be a nightmare. Avoid any aggressive polishing on the insides as much as practical. You might get frustrated.
-
Thanks.
I need to order an ECS front. I haven't pulled out the rear glass and considering that it's 10 ft up I'll have to bring in a few friends. I hope it doesn't have many scratches. The trim had been DAed!
-
I bought these suction cups for $10 as they have 1/4-20 studs on the back (with nuts).
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08J42YLTQ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
Drilled some holes, stuck them on some plywood and put some spacer wood on the back to keep the studs off the table.
A little bolt removing juice and the screws on the end of the trim came off.
I then found a piece of hardwood, oak here, and whacked on the edge of the trim slowly but surely. It appears to work best by getting the side with the screws loose first, working the top a bit and then hitting the bottom of the trim (by the screw holes) to force the curved end off the glass.
As the trim comes up make sure the hardwood is hitting the trim and not the rubbery window compound (aka seal strip).
The suction cups kept the glass from moving too much as I whack at the trim.
Use a plastic hammer, not a metal one.
The outside had DA scratches. The inside diamond ring scratches. Let's see how well the Pro Kit I bought works.
-
Bill, I tagged you in a Facebook video a while ago. If you look at the album that the video is in, I had a few other videos depicting the severity of some of my scratches.
I'll look again, but it seems I posted another one on my coupe backglass. If I find it, I'll tag you there also.
-
Thanks Richard.