ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: preaction on February 10, 2016, 11:06:35 PM
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So I pulled my 67 390 to update its appearance and add some small parts that need to put on the engine. As Im removing all of the brackets and other parts to prep for a repaint with Ditzler DAR paint (this type of paint is a first for me) I am seeing that my 12 year old rattle can paint job has held up pretty good for a couple of cans of spray paint. I would say that 85% of it is still in place and holding on well. I know I have to remove all loose paint and clean the engine very well in prepping for the new paint but Im not sure if I need to remove all traces of paint for the Ditzler to work its best, has anyone run into this situation ?
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So I pulled my 67 390 to update its appearance and add some small parts that need to put on the engine. As Im removing all of the brackets and other parts to prep for a repaint with Ditzler DAR paint (this type of paint is a first for me) I am seeing that my 12 year old rattle can paint job has held up pretty good for a couple of cans of spray paint. I would say that 85% of it is still in place and holding on well. I know I have to remove all loose paint and clean the engine very well in prepping for the new paint but Im not sure if I need to remove all traces of paint for the Ditzler to work its best, has anyone run into this situation ?
You don't have to take it all off and you can paint over old cured paint butttttt a word to the wise .The top surface is only as good as the surface underneath it. I all ways strip the old paint off. I dont 't want to but it is the best way. I typically have the engine in a well ventilated room and with the air spray gun or airless etc.filled with lacquor thinner and spray the block and scrub with a stiff plastic brush scrub the block . Rinse by spraying the thinner. I keep doing this until it is all off or at least 95% off. It comes off pretty easy. FYI the Ditzler product (I use PPG) will not come off that way I bet. Commercial catalyzed paints are substantially more durable then rattle can paints. A little overkill unless on a driver car that gets dirty and has to be cleaned occasionally . The rattle can paint fades easily when exposed to most chemicals (why it comes off easy with thinner)but the catalyzed paints will not.
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Thanks Bob, I am using PPG seems they throw Ditzler in there. I believe I will be removing all of the current paint. The PPG formula is the one I got here and interestingly as I was looking at some old articles I have saved over the years I saw one about paint it was from 1991 and it was from Bob Perkins written in mustang monthly ? and it listed the same formula 25 years ago.
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Thanks Bob, I am using PPG seems they throw Ditzler in there. I believe I will be removing all of the current paint. The PPG formula is the one I got here and interestingly as I was looking at some old articles I have saved over the years I saw one about paint it was from 1991 and it was from Bob Perkins written in mustang monthly ? and it listed the same formula 25 years ago.
It comes in a premixed can from PPG or used to . Yes it has been the preferred method for decades now.A little expensive if you just have to do one engine but worth it IMO. be sure to use the flattener because it is too shiny (compared to assemblyline) out of the can.
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Consider using an epoxy primer on the bare metal, just a light coat. It will help with adhesion (so long as you topcoat within 48 hours according to the data sheet).
Preparation is extremely important.
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Along the "preparation" line of thinking, and as much a pain in the arce as it is, I agree that anything under the paint will ultimately affect the finish. (might hurt less to have a tube of 'Preparation H' handy ;D )
*greese
*old paint
*RTV sealants (silicone based)
*RUST
*oil (from assembly lube and/or hands)
*temperature of the engine casting (or parts)
I am sure there are many things more tings to consider but with a whole lot of effort, comes a whole lot of reward.
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I was unable to find this paint from PPG, other than possibly eBay, so ended up using TPC Global's version of the same stuff. FYI.
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I did find it just one state away but the seller did call it old technology.
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I was unable to find this paint from PPG, other than possibly eBay, so ended up using TPC Global's version of the same stuff. FYI.
It can be mixed from qt size up by a formula . So any PPG store should be able to mix the formula.
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It can be mixed from qt size up by a formula . So any PPG store should be able to mix the formula.
That is what I choose to do last year. Did have to travel into a different district to get it but not a big deal.
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Does a primer need to be used when painting an engine with the PPG DAR paint ?
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You must be in OZ... I mean Commiefornia. Few places have the ridiculous regulations that they do. Sad you have to travel to get something of that nature. Yes, I would prime your engine.
-Keith
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Does a primer need to be used when painting an engine with the PPG DAR paint ?
I and others have painted the ppg engine paint without using a primer and it has held up as durable . It is strong as nails without primer (on a spotless clean metal block) but I know of others who swear by using the primer.
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I agree on the primer. After all the stripping of old paint, etc. I wash the engine with Simple Green and make sure it is completely dry before painting.
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Does a primer need to be used when painting an engine with the PPG DAR paint ?
I haven't primed engines in the past and have been happy with the results. Hard enough to get the paint to look like it was originally applied. Often restorers put on allot of paint and with primer IMHO it just adds to the "dipped in plastic look" of some paint jobs
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Well its been a couple of weeks now and a dozen calls in and around the Philadelphia region and the word is even from PPG in Ohio that PPG brand DAR paints are unavailable, only what's left at distributors inventory's. Can anyone provide a contact for someone who may have this paint and related products, thanks Paul.
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English Color
972-647-1133 Ask for Joe. If they won't ship it, contact me via PM. We'll discuss how to get it to you.
-Keith
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Here is another possibility. NPD offers PPG13358 in catalyzed spray cans. Part number: AP-EB. 12oz can runs 13.50.
You can clear over the paint.
-Keith
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I'm getting parts back on my 67 Dearborn 390 after cleaning to prep for painting. There are pics and discussion about the PCV and related parts but there are a few questions I have about other areas. Does the gulp valve mounting bracket get painted blue ? Does the harmonic balancer get blue paint or installed after blue paint and does the balancer get painted black ? I'm guessing that the crab mounting pad and crab studs were masked off. IIRC the thermactor pump mounting bracket is installed before paint. Fuel pump is not installed for engine paint. I don't know if the oil filter adaptor is or is not installed for painting. Should the timing pointer and attaching screws be painted ? Water pump bypass and clamps do get painted. Does the brake booster hard line from the manifold get painted ? I realize that the manifold fitting for this does not get blue paint. I will try to post some pics of where I'm at now.
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"I'm getting parts back on my 67 Dearborn 390 after cleaning to prep for painting."
1- Does the gulp valve mounting bracket get painted blue ? - No
2- Does the harmonic balancer get blue paint or installed after blue paint and does the balancer get painted black ? - Not certain for a 67 but believe black - added after engine was painted
3- I'm guessing that the crab mounting pad and crab studs were masked off. - Since it uses the bakolite plate yes I believe there was a mask placed over the mounting face and studs. Do have paint on those surfaces on a 68 but can't tell if it has been rebuilt/repainted before
4- IIRC the thermactor pump mounting bracket is installed before paint. - Yes the Y shaped on at the back of the pump that attaches to the head
5- Fuel pump is not installed for engine paint. - Mask placed over the hole/mounting surface
6- I don't know if the oil filter adaptor is or is not installed for painting. = Installed after
7- Should the timing pointer and attaching screws be painted ? - Yes
8- Water pump bypass and clamps do get painted. - Yes
9- Does the brake booster hard line from the manifold get painted ? - No vacuum block its mounted to is not painted
Hope this helps
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I'm getting parts back on my 67 Dearborn 390 after cleaning to prep for painting. There are pics and discussion about the PCV and related parts but there are a few questions I have about other areas. Does the gulp valve mounting bracket get painted blue ? Does the harmonic balancer get blue paint or installed after blue paint and does the balancer get painted black ? I'm guessing that the crab mounting pad and crab studs were masked off. IIRC the thermactor pump mounting bracket is installed before paint. Fuel pump is not installed for engine paint. I don't know if the oil filter adaptor is or is not installed for painting. Should the timing pointer and attaching screws be painted ? Water pump bypass and clamps do get painted. Does the brake booster hard line from the manifold get painted ? I realize that the manifold fitting for this does not get blue paint. I will try to post some pics of where I'm at now.
To help fill in some blanks. Crank shaft sleeve was on but typically only painted near timing cover with paint deminishing towards the forward edge. Balancer is added later and is black. fuel pump gasket is white before unpainted fuel pump. Black oil filter adapter gasket before unpainted adapter.
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Thanks Jeff and Bob, what would be the correct finish for the gulp valve bracket ? And if the bracket is installed after engine paint then the attaching bolts for the bracket and the valve would be P&O ? Was the dip stick tube also installed before paint ? Im not sure if anything is installed for the A/C system, to get engine blue. I believe all of the A/C mounting parts are semi gloss black.
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Thanks Jeff and Bob, what would be the correct finish for the gulp valve bracket ? And if the bracket is installed after engine paint then the attaching bolts for the bracket and the valve would be P&O ? Was the dip stick tube also installed before paint ?
Dip stick tube installed before engine was painted
Gulp valve mount semi-gloss black. Attaching bolts are P & O (very short castle headed bolts). Valve it self is coated main aluminum (a greenish/gold like carburetor main body) and a zinc dichromate lid/top
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Are there any a/c mounting brackets installed before paint ?
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Are there any a/c mounting brackets installed before paint ?
No those were added at the plant that year from my understanding
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No those were added at the plant that year from my understanding
+1 on that understanding.
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One more detail is the water pump hub masked or painted blue ? Also what would the engine lift brackets look like ?
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One more detail is the water pump hub masked or painted blue ? ....
Mask placed over the pulley hub before painting - left unpainted
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Thanks Jeff, am I remembering correctly that no gaskets are used for the exhaust manifolds. Engine lift hooks blue ?
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Thanks Jeff, am I remembering correctly that no gaskets are used for the exhaust manifolds. Engine lift hooks blue ?
Yes - no gaskets were used between heads and exhaust manifolds. Factory documents mention a thin coat of graphite was used between the two
Engine hooks would be a blue. On other engines the blue is often slightly different - as if they were supplied all ready painted
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Can a second coat be applied with the DAR paint after the paint on the engine has dried ? And as far as gloss goes with the 15-20% flattner added should the paint still look like a gloss just not as much ?
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Yes, but it has to be in the 45 minutes to one hour window, or you have to wait 48 hours before recoating. I ordered paint after I picked up yours and shipped it to you because I noted the difference in the blue vs. the rattle can paint. The blue is so much better looking than the spray, isn't it?
-Keith
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Its awesome for the cost and effort its totally worth it and I look foreward to doing it again thanks again Keith.
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Anytime. I have a quart here now too and the needed reducers and catalyst. I stuck a plastic spoon in your paint and let it dry, then compared to the rattle can product. No comparison. That prompted me to call Joe and order paint for myself. I didn't realize it had lead in it. I have a respirator, so I am not overly concerned with the small quantities being used. I am glad all worked out for you.
-Keith