ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Processes, Products & Techniques => Topic started by: CharlesTurner on June 06, 2010, 11:25:41 PM
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Did a little experimenting dipping control arms using the floating paint on water method. I believe I didn't have enough paint on the surface as I got mixed results (test pieces.) I'm using a 5 gallon bucket, filled up with water, then used a quart of black on the top. Anyone with experience doing this?
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Charles - I have done this several times now. I use good old Rustoleum enamel and mix gloss and flat to get the sheen I want. They always seem to come out a little glossier when dipped. I agree that with the large surface area of a 5 gallon bucket you probably did not have enough paint depth using only a quart. Remember you will loose paint as your part goes through and it adheres to the part, and a control arm takes quite a bit of paint. You have to think about what you are doing and move the part a little sometimes to avoid an air pocket that would leave part of it unpainted. I also have to thin the paint (with quality automotive thinner) to get it to drip off.
On some parts with complicated shape, I have sprayed a coat of paint on first, then dipped, just to be sure that some little bubble doesn't leave an unpainted "spot" that would require me to start over.
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I used Rustoleum oil-based enamel for my test. Figured at 10 bucks a quart, no big loss. I did not thin it out, the can says to use acetone for reducing. I bought the semi-gloss in a quart, the final sheen actually looked pretty decent. Didn't care for how it smelled though and it takes forever to dry. I was thinking of buying a couple quarts of regular acrylic enamel and flatten/reduce it.
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Charles, I don't think the Acrylic Enamel would float?
If anyone knows, why was the paint floated anyway? Couldn't they just have dipped it in a trough FULL of paint?
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Charles, I don't think the Acrylic Enamel would float?
If anyone knows, why was the paint floated anyway? Couldn't they just have dipped it in a trough FULL of paint?
You're talking about 4+ gallons needed. Even the cheapest acrylic enamel would be ~$100 per gallon. If I was doing this on a more consistent basis, would make sense to just buy straight paint.
I'm guessing acrylic would float also, but haven't tried it.
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I started mine with the water trick. Made a total mess of everything. I finally ended up with 5 quarts of Rust Oleum semi gloss. In order to minimize the amount of paint I needed I bought a plastic portable file case from Staples and built a small bulkhead in it where the control arm would fit with minimal clearance all around. I used very little paint and the mess was not too bad. I let them hang for a week to dry; that Rust Oleum does take forever. The finish is great and I used the same method for the brake backing plates and some other parts too.
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With the 5 quarts, did you reduce the paint at all? I thought that it was too thick right out of the can.
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I used it right out of the can. However, I set the 5 cans in a huge pot of boiling water to get them warmed up. The warm paint flows great. ;)
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I thin the Rustoleum at least 1 oz. of reducer to every 4 oz. of paint. I haven't tried acetone, but ordinary lacquer thinner didn't work as it did not seem to produce a homogenous mix. I have been using "real" thinner; specifically Dupont 8022-S Mid-Temp Reducer, but I think any mid-temp reducer would be fine. Just use a quality product and not a hardware store item.
Some shapes drip off well and some don't. I have tried more than the 1/4 reducer mix to get a thinner result and it also worked, but I don't know if there is a point at which the paint is so thin that it will not produce a coating on the dipped part that will resist the water.
BTW, my drying time is usually about 2-3 days; not sure why you are needing more?
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Here is the custom Staples dipping cabinet and the one week drying process. I even added a few old bricks in the bottom of the tank to take up some room and save more paint.
(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab270/bertram65/JuneCandidsandskywayindriveway045.jpg)
(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab270/bertram65/JuneCandidsandskywayindriveway047.jpg)
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Was the control arm shaft already installed when dipped in black? You did a good job either way, just wondering what is factory correct.
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My originals were black.
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Gary is right. The control arms that were dipped had the end shafts on. Have seen late '66 and then 67-up have mostly all natural uppers.
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Well, I ended up buying some satin acrylic enamel, 3 gallons and 1 gallon of reducer. Cost was about $65/gallon with shipping, not too bad. I poured the 3 gallons in my 5 gallon bucket and then about half the gallon of reducer. I had to tip the bucket to the side to get the coverage on the lower control arms how I wanted, but thought they came out great. They were completely dry in less than 24 hours. Couple pics here:
http://www.early-mustang.com/charles/K_vert/6_19_10/
Will take more pics later. I couldn't resist bolting them to the car. I needed to see some progress!
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Looks great Charles. Couldn't quite bring yourself to go for the low budget dipping cabinet from Staples; good for you. :)
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Pics look great, I restored mine and I used the original rivits from AMK for my ball joints and I couldn't get the correct waffle pattern like I see on yours, how did you get this?
Gary
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I had a fella in MA that did the riveting. He had special dies made to do the waffle pattern and the lower dome pattern. The upper and lower rivets are not the same.
If you need the contact info for the place in MA, let me know.
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I have been using the rustoleum for dipping for a long time. I use acetone to thin it. I have done just as James did and mixed gloss and flat together to get a nice sheen. I made a tall bucket of sorts to pore all the paint into and dip the lower arms into it with out having to use the water. It does take a while for the paint to dry completely, a few days. But I am a patient person.
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I was just curious what people were using for bulk black paint for dipping parts? The only thing I came up with was using Menards farm implement black. I only could find it at a gallon at a time, so at $27 a gallon, it added up to put it in a large container. Also wondering if someone has a great idea to put less paint in a taller container for dipping lower support arms. It would have to be at least 16" tall.
Daven
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this topic has been discussed before. a search here will reveal the answers.
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From what I remember, a 1/2 inch of paint or so on top of water will do the trick. Dump the part fully into the bucket and slowly pull it out; the paint will stick to the part.
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From what I remember, a 1/2 inch of paint or so on top of water will do the trick. Dump the part fully into the bucket and slowly pull it out; the paint will stick to the part.
Well not really "Dump" the part since its the entry process that coats the part :)
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In case it helps, here is what I used for dipping my pedals, including a video link. Worked great, but I couldn't speak to how well it would hold up on an underbody part like your lower control arms.
I used the float method because I don't have the room in my garage or volume of parts to restore to justify keeping a large bin around. Floating limits you to oil based paints. I used Rust-Oleum Semi-gloss black 7798 because after dip coating test panels, that seemed to match the pedal paint better then the satin gloss. Mixed it 5:1 with acetone because that seemed enough thinning to reduce the heavy bead that forms on the bottom with straight paint.
Overall process: Degrease -> steel wool -> soak in Evaporust -> rinse, dry, wipe with clean towel -> scuff with maroon Scotch Brite -> dip in semi gloss black mixture -> after a week of drying, coated the bare metal part with Boeshield T9
-the steel wool removed the top of the rust and accelerated the process in the Evaporust without leaving scuff/scratch marks on the parts to remain bare.
-I used the maroon scotch brite because it could get into the tiny spots and around weld material. Supplemented with sand paper on the flats where I could. In the video I forgot to scuff the first pedal and paid for it, but corrected my mistake for the second pedal.
Any feedback how to do it better is welcome.
https://youtu.be/W35EYNtImjI
You can fast forward the first 1min if you get bored watching me carefully pouring the paint on top. The acrylic vase is great for making a video, but not for keeping a dipping tank. The paint is attracted to the high polarity of the acrylic and after 1-2 hours started creeping down the sides. Better to use a polypropylene or polyethylene container like most of the storage bins you find at the hardware store. I didn't post here originally because I am a rookie and not a concours expert.
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In case it helps, here is what I used for dipping my pedals, including a video link. Worked great, but I couldn't speak to how well it would hold up on an underbody part like your lower control arms.
I used the float method because I don't have the room in my garage or volume of parts to restore to justify keeping a large bin around. Floating limits you to oil based paints. I used Rust-Oleum Semi-gloss black 7798 because after dip coating test panels, that seemed to match the pedal paint better then the satin gloss. Mixed it 5:1 with acetone because that seemed enough thinning to reduce the heavy bead that forms on the bottom with straight paint.
Overall process: Degrease -> steel wool -> soak in Evaporust -> rinse, dry, wipe with clean towel -> scuff with maroon Scotch Brite -> dip in semi gloss black mixture -> after a week of drying, coated the bare metal part with Boeshield T9
-the steel wool removed the top of the rust and accelerated the process in the Evaporust without leaving scuff/scratch marks on the parts to remain bare.
-I used the maroon scotch brite because it could get into the tiny spots and around weld material. Supplemented with sand paper on the flats where I could. In the video I forgot to scuff the first pedal and paid for it, but corrected my mistake for the second pedal.
Any feedback how to do it better is welcome.
https://youtu.be/W35EYNtImjI
You can fast forward the first 1min if you get bored watching me carefully pouring the paint on top. The acrylic vase is great for making a video, but not for keeping a dipping tank. The paint is attracted to the high polarity of the acrylic and after 1-2 hours started creeping down the sides. Better to use a polypropylene or polyethylene container like most of the storage bins you find at the hardware store. I didn't post here originally because I am a rookie and not a concours expert.
GREAT video! Thanks for sharing.
Frank
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Thank you all! I loved the video!
Daven
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Excellent video. Having never done it before I have more confidence in giving it a try.