ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: Ralf on February 23, 2016, 03:01:28 PM
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Hi,
Could anybody let me know if below double tips are original factory or not? What would be the value, if original?
Thx
(http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/5711jpg7aklndcz2v.jpg) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)
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The top pic seems to have a Ford logo and engineering number.
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Yes, both have them.
However, I learned not all parts stamped are necessarily originals.
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Ralf, can you post a pic of the outlet end of the exhaust tip. As if looking from the back of the car.
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Yes, certainly......rounded edges.
(http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/57111lwqv3afjs9.jpg) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)
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They would be good for a driver car or survivor car (disregarding the blasted and painted pipe section) but far from show quality based on the pictures.
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Hm....far from show quality? Could you pls detail this?
What about than to re-chrome them totally? Than closer to concours? Obviously, these are originals.
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Hm....far from show quality? Could you pls detail this?
What about than to re-chrome them totally? Than closer to concours? Obviously, these are originals.
The chrome is poor and the steel tube portion badly pitted. it would be difficult if not impossible by conventional methods to rechrome the tip as one piece and have it look correct . The original look was a chrome tip with a distinct blueish weld bead to a smooth steel formed exhaust pipe. If you rechromed it the tip would look nicer but you would still have the pitted pipe section plus that section would now be covered in chrome and of course you would be obliterate the look of the weld bead too. With that much effort you might as well pay a lot of money for NOS original tip rather then have the same amount plus time and effort in a lesser quality rechromed tip that does not look completely like original.
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Ok, understood.
The main question to me, if I decide to take some bucks for re-chroming....are these parts original?
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Ok, understood.
The main question to me, if I decide to take some bucks for re-chroming....are these parts original?
They are original but even with re chroming they would not be show quality. Again great for a driver or a survivor car (without rechroming on survivor)but not good enough even with rechroming for a concours show in MCA trailered or thoroughbred concours classes. I am sure there are other venues that have different standards where they would be acceptable but not at the ones I am familiar with here in the US. I Only mention this because I thought that you were trying to present your car restored to as new condition. If not then disregard. To better clarify, some times if using low quality original parts you may not lose on authenticity but will lose on condition compared to a well made reproduction part. The end game in concours is to have the car appear as new Ford assemblyline. It also depends on the class a car is entered in concours. Some people don't enter their car in concours but build it to established standards. Not mandatory because at the end of the day it is your car and you can do with it as you want. At one time I thought there was a low grade version and a excellent repro tip. Others will know better . I hope this helps with what ever you decide to do.
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Ralf if you could read the part number I think you will find that it starts with a C9. Those 69 tips are chrome, the 67-68 tips are stainless steel welded as those are to the plain steel feeder pipe. I can post picture of a 67 NOS one I a few days if you like.
Marty
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Yes, would be great.
Do you sell them as well ?
Ralf
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The 67 stainless pipe OE tip said fomoco in oval & c7za the later steel pipe said ford in oval & c9za same pipe just different metal finish.
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To summarize:
The pictured tips are from 69, oval and chromed? Tubes are normally chromed as well?
67 tips are oval, but stainless steel? Tubes are normally stainless as well?
What happened with the pipes on the tips pictured?. They have been sand blasted and painted, Bob says. Why that?
Bob said also:
The original look was a chrome tip with a distinct blueish weld bead to a smooth steel formed exhaust pipe
And honestly I dont not know what does that mean: "distinct blueish weld bead to a smooth steel formed exhaust pipe"? Means going from stainless steel tips to steel (polished) pipe?
Couldn't find a translation for that specific explanation ;)
I'm a bit lost....
1967 completely stainless, or completely chrome? And how does the tubes look like?
Would be great if smb has some original pictures.
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Ralf What you need is a C7 number, the single pipe is plain steel up to the welds that are blue-black the two tips are stainless steel with rolled tips. I can not get a picture of the NOS one till Saturday. No I do not have any for sale.
Marty
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Ralf,
The picture that you posted shows the "FORD" script on the tip. But you did not answer the question about whether your part is a C7 or C9 part. There are three options I can think of - (1) no part number, (2) C7, (3) C9. Which is it?
Also please note that unless you have the K code engine, the original equipment would have been single exhaust with a turn down in front of the valence on the passenger side. No factory dual exhaust for C and A codes, unfortunately.
If you have a C or A code, and you want to stick with dual exhaust (one of the more popular modifications), I would recommend going aftermarket and selling yours to someone who may need what you have for a driver or survivor as Bob mentioned. Knowing the part number on yours would important for a possible sale also. The availability and cost of NOS in this case does not make a lot of sense. If aftermarket parts were $100 and NOS were $200 that would be one thing. But I think they are quite a bit more than that.
If you have a K code, it would be deserving of the expense of NOS parts.
John
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Hmmmm....trying to answer as best as I can.
I always thought that a (true) GT (A) A Code has dual exhaust tips factory. Even some GT (A)`s with C Codes. Not only necessarily K-codes.
But may be I'm wrong.
Info from seller, when I asked if the tubes are painted:
"These are 100% original, these is NO paint, the welds separate bare metal connection tube from chrome plated outlets.
Assembly line original pair of 1967, 1968 & 1969 Mustang GT & Mach 1 with 289 4V, 302 4V, 289K, 351W, 390GT, 428CJ & 428SCJ engines. The chrome is near Mint, no pitting or valance rubbing damage, please see pics. The bare metal pipe is complete & not cut, but does have some tiny pits. Overall, this is the nicest survivor pair of rolled tips I have seen in a while. Repro's are nice but are not shaped correctly & polished stainless steel vice chrome plated. This is the last pair I have available"
- no, I'm not going to build my car to a real concours one, also I'm not going to shows (I will drive that car :)) ) Would be also too expensive.
- my car is a GT modified car, with aftermarket double tips in stainless steel, edges not rounded, but shape and contour like factory (don't know supplier, but see picture below). Scott Drakes doesn't look to me factory shape, because the double tips are not "parallel" to each other. However, even the fact that the car is only GT modified, I would to be close as possible, means if could find smth better than mine, I would change them. Of course, I could live also with the tips currently installed.
Mine:
- I honestly can not tell you the number if C7 or C9. Can not read it on the pictures I have. However, there is a number and the FORD logo stamped. But I learned only 69 was FORD stamped, 67 was FOMOCO stamped. Conclusion, should be a 69 tip. The parts are currrently in New Mexico, waiting to be carried to Germany (or not, depending what I will do following your recommendations). Havn't seen them "live". Paid more than $400.
What I could read from pictures so far "Ford" C....C262 E
Scott Drake, rounded, stainless, but wrong shape (tips not parallel):
(http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/ext328kym7dui8t1.jpg) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)
Original:
(http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/tip16xqyl35r9c.jpg) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)
Saw several NOS aftermarket tips also without rounded edges, but stainless.
NOS, stainless, correct shape, but not rounded (stamped):
(http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/4bt25sa04dn.jpg) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)
(http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/21thcvnkrdy.jpg) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)
Aftermarket, stainless, but not edged (like mine)
(http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/aftermarketstazfukv8ymr0.jpg) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)
What would be the best retro alternative? Any supplier you could recommend?
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Hmmmm....trying to answer as best as I can.
I always thought that a (true) GT (A) A Code has dual exhaust tips factory. Even some GT (A)`s with C Codes. Not only necessarily K-codes.
But may be I'm wrong.
Info from seller, when I asked if the tubes are painted:
"These are 100% original, these is NO paint, the welds separate bare metal connection tube from chrome plated outlets.
Assembly line original pair of 1967, 1968 & 1969 Mustang GT & Mach 1 with 289 4V, 302 4V, 289K, 351W, 390GT, 428CJ & 428SCJ engines. The chrome is near Mint, no pitting or valance rubbing damage, please see pics. The bare metal pipe is complete & not cut, but does have some tiny pits. Overall, this is the nicest survivor pair of rolled tips I have seen in a while. Repro's are nice but are not shaped correctly & polished stainless steel vice chrome plated. This is the last pair I have available"
- no, I'm not going to build my car to a real concours one, also I'm not going to shows (I will drive that car :)) ) Would be also too expensive.
- my car is a GT modified car, with aftermarket double tips in stainless steel, edges not rounded, but shape and contour like factory (don't know supplier, but see picture below). Scott Drakes doesn't look to me factory shape, because the double tips are not "parallel" to each other. However, even the fact that the car is only GT modified, I would to be close as possible, means if could find smth better than mine, I would change them. Of course, I could live also with the tips currently installed.
Mine:
(http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/minemod0zcy21bien.png) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)
- I honestly can not tell you the number if C7 or C9. Can not read it on the pictures I have. However, there is a number and the FORD logo stamped. But I learned only 69 was FORD stamped, 67 was FOMOCO stamped. Conclusion, should be a 69 tip. The parts are currrently in New Mexico, waiting to be carried to Germany (or not, depending what I will do following your recommendations). Havn't seen them "live". Paid more than $400.
What I could read from pictures so far "Ford" C....C262 E
Scott Drake, rounded, stainless, but wrong shape (tips not parallel):
(http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/ext328kym7dui8t1.jpg) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)
Original:
(http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/tip16xqyl35r9c.jpg) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)
Saw several NOS aftermarket tips also without rounded edges, but stainless.
NOS, stainless, correct shape, but not rounded (stamped):
(http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/4bt25sa04dn.jpg) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)
(http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/21thcvnkrdy.jpg) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)
Aftermarket, stainless, but not edged (like mine)
(http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/aftermarketstazfukv8ymr0.jpg) (http://www.fotos-hochladen.net)
What would be the best retro alternative? Any supplier you could recommend?
Aren't the ones in the pictures that are all one same shade of metal tips that the entire tip has been chrome plated rolled tips or not? I will try to write so that the translating program you are using will not have as much trouble getting my meaning across hopefully. Others have given you the information before but to review - They are nice tips for a survivor car where everything else is original used or on a driver car where other things look used. They are genuine tips but chrome which is correct for 69 not stainless which is correct for 67 or 68. The tip portion is chrome or stainless depending on year and the pipe section is smooth bare steel on the 67/68 when new. The welding area to connect the two together is called a welding bead. The welding bead has a blue ish gray appearance when done due to the heat involved in welding. This describes how it should look when new. The tips you picture are far from new. The pipe section on the used tips are very pitted unlike your seller description. If the pipe section is not painted then it has been sand blasted to get rid of the rust leaving the pits because the shade and surface condition of the metal does not appear as new smooth steel besides the different color the welding bead would appear. These described current conditions is NOT what is expected for a show quality tip. You should also be aware that the pitted blasted pipe section will be very prone to rusting if not coated with something . The chrome although nice does not look mint unlike the seller description based on the top section and the tip edges in the picture IMO. They are fine for a driver car which will not be presented as new condition and would match other used parts on a driver condition car. If you are restoring every other aspect of the car then the nice used part tips will stand out as used to the observant disregarding that they should be stainless for 67 instead of chrome (69) . Unless these used tips are very inexpensive I think that you would be much better off buying the more expensive reproduction exhaust tips with the rolled edges IMO. I am not sure if they are sold in stainless or in chrome but ether would look better then the used ones on a restored car. If you are not restoring the car then they should look fine . I just would NOT pay a premium for them because they are not technically correct for a 67 and if you can buy a superior looking condition repro if you buy the rolled tip. The best of luck with what ever you decide is best for you. Did your friend in the US receive the free NOS GT emblem I sent him on your behalf yet ?
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Thank you all for your input and comments.
Finally I decided to return the tips.
Ralf
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As promised here are the pictures of the C7 NOS tips.
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Hmmmm....trying to answer as best as I can.
I always thought that a (true) GT (A) A Code has dual exhaust tips factory. Even some GT (A)`s with C Codes. Not only necessarily K-codes.
But may be I'm wrong.
Ralf : Attached is documentation in the form of a page from the 1967 Mustang Brochure and a copy of a page from a 1967 Salesman's Price Book, that supports the comment by 67gta289 that Dual Exhaust and the Exhaust Tips were only available on High Performance (K Code) 289's (and 390's). As a matter of fact, no Dual Exhaust, with or without Tips, was even available as an Option for other 289's.
[quote author=Ralf link=topic=13106.msg80313#msg80313 date=1456422431
- no, I'm not going to build my car to a real concours one, also I'm not going to shows (I will drive that car :)) ) Would be also too expensive.
[/quote]
Since you have noted that you are not going to build your car to "Concours" due to the expense, I can't imagine why you would think about paying the "BIG BUCK$" for an NOS set of Exhaust Tips (if you could find them - referencing your "Wanted Ad), when either a nice used set of Originals or a nice Repo set would be sufficient for your level of "Restoration" ? Just seems, in my opinion, to be putting out unnecessary dollars. Of course, as has been said, it's your car.
Bob
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Ok, thx for clarification.
However, currently quad tips are on my car. Stainless steel , not rounded. See picture in one of the previous posts.
Now I'm looking to change them to stainless, rounded.
I know that I have to spend some bucks. Hopefully not too much.
But as it was said, the pipes are in poor shape on my chromed tips, rounded, even factory and only 69. Gonna return them.
When I'm saying I not gonna go to full concours resto means, I will do some things to improve to.
Always thought that a 289 A Code GTA was equiped with quad tips.
Ralf
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You could at least try contacting Scott Fuller, although I think his specialty is Shelby's, but i suspect he might be able to help. It won't be cheap, possibly no more expensive than some of the options you've considered.
http://www.scottfullerreproductions.com/1967MustangGT289.html
Just a thought.
Bill
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BTW...you could contact Scott Drake as well. The pictures they offer often do NOT reflect the actual product. Drake does claim it is "exact" reproduction (I know that word is often misused, or flat out lie) but it may be closer to what you are looking for than the picture indicates
Bill
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Have seen a SD repro in GER couple of days ago @Mustang Dealer Shop, totally wrong shape of the double tips (not parallel)
Have contacted SF as well, already this morning german time ;-)
Ralf
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You could at least try contacting Scott Fuller, although I think his specialty is Shelby's, but i suspect he might be able to help. It won't be cheap, possibly no more expensive than some of the options you've considered.
http://www.scottfullerreproductions.com/1967MustangGT289.html
Just a thought.
Bill
Have been talking to Scott.
What he is doing? Using Scott Drakes, cut the pipe of and to weld the stamped stainless pipe on = reproduction
So, I'm still looking forward if smb would like to sell his original 67 GT(A) twin tips stainless.
Ralf
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I got some 67 tips here somewhere but have to find them as wife has moved all my parts around when I am gone on trips so let me ask her where see put them
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I got some 67 tips here somewhere but have to find them as wife has moved all my parts around when I am gone on trips so let me ask her where see put them
Don't you just hate it when you wife messes around with your Mustang parts! I guess I would just have to go to her sewing room and unravel some thread. LOL
Ed I have to ask were they on the kitchen table?
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I got some 67 tips here somewhere but have to find them as wife has moved all my parts around when I am gone on trips so let me ask her where see put them
Great if you could find them. Excellent if you gonna sell them....to me.
Pls pm.
Many thanks
Ralf
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Don't you just hate it when you wife messes around with your Mustang parts! I guess I would just have to go to her sewing room and unravel some thread. LOL
Ed I have to ask were they on the kitchen table?
That is where I get into trouble! Not exactly the kitchen table but along those lines. I often build a small collection up (all clean stuff, not wet, greasy, dirty, nasty stuff) and the grandkids or company of sorts come by and either she panics or I panic, that somebody will move them into "hiding" and who the hell knows where they went! Presently, I am missing all three of my 67's grille supports/gravel shield brackets. I always fear they (missing items) have been thrown out by mistake... yet somehow, missing things like this show up "mysteriously" at a later date. I'm not sure yet who keeps hiding them! (or if people are playing games with me ;) )
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I'm not sure yet who keeps hiding them! (or if people are playing games with me ;) )
Damn...he's catching on to us! :-\
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found the box with chrome tips today 1 pair nos c7za & 1 pair of used c7za & some c9za also. so how much are nos rolled c7za tips worth the only one I have ever found in past 35 years of collecting parts & if I remember back YEARS ago I took these on trade for a pair of kr Shelby nos pipes & tips
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Hi,
As spoken, I would be interested in your (NOS) twin tips c7, stainless rolled edges.
Sent you an e-mail.
Ralf
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I just read this post from the start & noticed no mention of the early first version (67 only) gt chrome tip. The 67 type tip don't have the 2 top dimples stamped in them & are 6 1/2" long vs the 2 top dimple stamped (68 & 69) tip 6'' long . My thinking on this is being 67 had the unique gt dual exhaust shakle being the bottom stud & nut clearance issue with the dual pipes their was no reason to have the 2 dimples stamped in chrome tip for clearance but in 68 having the regular c6dz shakle the lower stud & nut clearance was an issue so 68 69 tips had the 2 top dimples stamped in them for shakle clearance. I have a nos set of c7za tips without dimples & a used set of c7za tips with the top dimples so I am thinking this is a 67 vs 68 tip change but no eng # change & the pipes are the same just tips different or is this some sort of a running change thru -out the 2 years? The c9za eng # change was dimpled tips & no stainless pipes like 67-68 instead raw steel pipes. Now the 68 427 gte cougars used the same early non-dimples tip but no shakle clearance issues since that unique c8zx pipe was bent down & routed under the rear valance since they never had dual exhaust cut out rear valances & I figure being left over or discontinued 67 non dimpled tip this would be a use for them making up these 68 427 gte cougar c8zx pipe & tip combo. Marty rupp can you show a topside tip photo to see which version you have with or without the 2 dimples?
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There are two C7ZA exhaust tips listed in an MPC dated August 67. The star symbol is for "Aluminized or Aluminized and Stainless Steel". The @ symbol is for "Stainless Steel". Of course, the material is referring to the service part - does not guarantee the original part was the same material. Based on the usage charts it appears the -A was dual tip, and the -B was single tip. I don't know if this helps the discussion - it's just some data I found that appears relevant.
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I will check but it will be a week before I can get back to it.
Marty
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Here is the 2 sets that I have. The 1 with the dimple is the later version and the 1 w/o is the earlier version.
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Hi,
Sent you PM.
Ralf
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read my reply #33 & see why I think the change was shackle related & I never cleaned the used 1 yet ran out of time before I had someone here who could post pics but used set is nice but chrome needs polished yet
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I got back to it today. It is the latter one with dimples. I only have one and would like to locate another.
Marty
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I cleaned up my stainless c7za exhaust tips & put them on ebay to be fair since I had 3 or so interested buyers so everyone can bid if interested ebay # 322063044220
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I cleaned up my stainless c7za exhaust tips & put them on ebay to be fair since I had 3 or so interested buyers so everyone can bid if interested ebay # 322063044220
I tried this link, no help
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sorry typed wrong tooo many little #s try this # 322063064220
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sorry typed wrong tooo many little #s try this # 322063064220
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-1968-Original-Ford-Mustang-GT-Tail-Pipe-Exhaust-Extensions-C7ZA-5C262-H-/322063064220 . Your welcome .