ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1970 Mustang => Topic started by: opcfan on May 06, 2016, 01:29:21 AM
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I am working on a 1970 Mustang conv. the r/h door has an ugly 1/2" gap at the top of the door. see photo I have the r/h inner rocker out of the car at this time and am ready to weld up. I am hesitating because of this door gap. Any ideas?
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f53/jim70mustang1/mustang/gap2.jpg)
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First thing you have to make sure of is that the door hinges are in perfect shape.
No worn bushings or pins, otherwise the door can't be properly adjusted to match the quarter panel.
Keep the glass rolled down and adjust the window afterward if need be.
Probably have to move the fender back too, might need shims added or removed to bring the side out or in to match the door.
Don't expect a 3/16" uniform panel gap like on a new car, and you won't be disappointed.
Detroit's offerings at this time were assembled with haphazard care.
Hopefully your cars not suffering from convertible sag, that's a whole other big issue.
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Might want to consider finding someone with a frame machine and have the body measure for sag, twisting, and whatever might have taken place over the years. Will provide you with a more solid starting spot and maybe you'll discover something
Remember these cars are not like a truck, larger car or earlier car with a real frame. Just a bunch of folded and formed sheetmetal spotwelded together.
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Thanks for the replies. I have the sitting level on the sub frame and the subframe is square. I am not sure what convertible sag is but it is usually due to rust. This is not a rust issue nor do I believe it is a frame issue.
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Convertibles are noted for these issues, especially rusted vehicles put on lifts. As assessment was the best advice given.
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Thanks for the replies. I have the sitting level on the sub frame and the subframe is square. I am not sure what convertible sag is but it is usually due to rust. This is not a rust issue nor do I believe it is a frame issue.
Why is the RH inner rocker out of the car?
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The r/h rocker had rust so I am replacing the r/h inner rocker, front torque box and floor pan.
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That's some significant repair work so you have to make sure all the new metal goes in to spec, then panel gaps won't be an issue.
Before you cut anything else, when the doors are off, adjustable door bars must be installed to pull the pillars together to the correct measurement.
Here's a diagram to check your car against.
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.......... nor do I believe it is a frame issue.
Your allot more confident that I would be given the same situation. Sure with all your experience you'll have it figured out and fixed in no time
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That's some significant repair work so you have to make sure all the new metal goes in to spec, then panel gaps won't be an issue.
Before you cut anything else, when the doors are off, adjustable door bars must be installed to pull the pillars together to the correct measurement.
Here's a diagram to check your car against.
I will surely check some the measurements with a laser level to ensure everything is as I think it is. Thanks for the help.
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I'd find what the correct door opening measurements are for your car and check both sides. Then, as suggested, add door bars to set and retain those specs while doing repairs. Sag does not always mean rust related. Convertibles are not as ridged as hardtops and, through years of use, they tend to sag. Sure seemed to work on my old body!
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I recently completed a hinge replacement on a 69 drivers door. What a friggen horror show! Myself and two friends did the final alignment, it took 4 hours on two separate days for 8 hours total! Don't bother measuring, what are you going to do with the numbers? As suggested by the guys, check for frame issues to the extent of a break or major fault. I would take pictures of all the gaps, doors, hood, deck lid, on flat pavement after you bounce the car to settle it. Then take floor jacks and start lifting it in various combinations. taking the same pictures after each lift and take pictures of the jack locations. Next study the pictures to see if one jack location has a greater effect on gap alignment than the others. This may zero you in on a weak spot, or it may not.
The common problem with aligning doors on a 69/70 is the interior rubber door parts and steel strip will prevent you from getting the door aligned. Remove all of it. I had to hammer the pinch weld a bit near the door light switch to get enough clearance. Take off the fender of course and replace the pins in both hinges, they sell a kit. I bought a shim kit at harbor freight and trimmed off the tabs and used them to get my alignment by shimming the hinges on the door. A 1/32 shim at the hinge area moves the door 1 inch or so 4 feet away at the latch, it's nuts. When the door is flush at the 4 points, 2 at the rocker and 2 at front and rear upper door, mock up the fender and check to make sure it is on the same plane as the door. Good luck, I pity you because it is going to be a real PITA! When you get frustrated walk away and come back fresh. You will learn a lot when you are done, and if you don't do it right the car will forever look like a hack job no matter how mice the paint and body work turn out.
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I can try to help you but the picture you uploaded doesn't give me a clear idea of what is going on. Is the gap tapered and wide at the top and tight at the bottom? First off the place to start is the rocker panel to door gap and then the door to quarter gap as they are stationary and cant be adjusted like the fender. With the rocker and inner rocker removed it makes it more difficult to establish a baseline. What was the door gap before you started? does the other side look the same?. Normally if the unibody is sagging due to rust the gap would be tight at the top and the bottom would be wide and sticking out and not flush. If the car was hit in the rear at one time and not repaired correctly it could cause the gap to open up as well. Is the quarter panel original or has it been replaced?
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I can try to help you but the picture you uploaded doesn't give me a clear idea of what is going on. Is the gap tapered and wide at the top and tight at the bottom? First off the place to start is the rocker panel to door gap and then the door to quarter gap as they are stationary and cant be adjusted like the fender. With the rocker and inner rocker removed it makes it more difficult to establish a baseline. What was the door gap before you started? does the other side look the same?. Normally if the unibody is sagging due to rust the gap would be tight at the top and the bottom would be wide and sticking out and not flush. If the car was hit in the rear at one time and not repaired correctly it could cause the gap to open up as well. Is the quarter panel original or has it been replaced?
You hit the nail on the head as the car has had a hard tap on rear and both rear quarters have been replaced. The gap was not good when I started but not quite as bad as it is now.
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Also check if the outer doorpanel has been changed. If done wrong you would have bad gaps. Guess how I know ::)
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If there is a tool to hold the door similar to what the factory used then it would be easy. The problem is the darn thing is heavy and there is no place to support the door as it is placed in the opening.
Imagine you could get a ford factory door clamp on a rolling cart. With the fender removed to wheel the door into position, check the gaps, and install the upper and lower hinge. Next you remove the door clamp, and install and adjust the striker bolt, close the door and you are done!
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If there is a tool to hold the door similar to what the factory used then it would be easy. The problem is the darn thing is heavy and there is no place to support the door as it is placed in the opening.
Imagine you could get a ford factory door clamp on a rolling cart. With the fender removed to wheel the door into position, check the gaps, and install the upper and lower hinge. Next you remove the door clamp, and install and adjust the striker bolt, close the door and you are done!
Several years ago, I mounted my doors by using a wooden outdoor bench with two 2x6's. I fit the bottom of the door flange between the two pieces of wood, and the height was perfect for the car (on jack stands or on wheels with no engine...I can't remember). Anyway, I maneuvered the door/bench combination up to the car, mounted the door to the pillar, and within 30 minutes got the door perfectly aligned. The other side went that quick as well. All done with only one person.
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Did you teach anyone a new vocabulary? Trying to align a complete door with glass is no easy feat, and even harder with one individual.
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Several years ago, I mounted my doors by using a wooden outdoor bench with two 2x6's. I fit the bottom of the door flange between the two pieces of wood, and the height was perfect for the car (on jack stands or on wheels with no engine...I can't remember). Anyway, I maneuvered the door/bench combination up to the car, mounted the door to the pillar, and within 30 minutes got the door perfectly aligned. The other side went that quick as well. All done with only one person.
Some creative thinking there, but here is the actual piece of equipment, and a good tutorial:
http://www.oldcarsweekly.com/restoration/tips-and-trick-to-make-your-next-door-assembly-easier
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Did you teach anyone a new vocabulary? Trying to align a complete door with glass is no easy feat, and even harder with one individual.
If your post is in reference to mine, no new words. I thought about using the bench for a few days before actually doing it. I was flabbergasted just how easy it was, considering all that I had read on various forums. I suspect I was extremely lucky. I did use paint sticks on the sills to set the correct height front to back. The paint sticks were kept in place with painters tape. After mounting the doors, I closed the door on the striker and finalized the pillar adjustment by keeping all of the gaps consistent (paint stick thickness). The door was without glass, though. After the glass was installed, I think I spent another 15 minutes on each side doing the final adjustment.
What was strange was that my painter used several extra washers as shims to align the door. Once I took the door off, I decided to see how bad things were without shims, and it was damn close to perfect.