ConcoursMustang Forums

1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: kateem30 on November 05, 2016, 02:32:56 PM

Title: Clutch return spring color
Post by: kateem30 on November 05, 2016, 02:32:56 PM
Hi guys,
I am trying to figure out what color my clutch return spring should be. I would say black but I saw a couple of them in blue and one of my friend was positive about his original in blue... We both have 1966 Metuchen Export cars (Sept and Oct).

Thanks for your help!

Pierre
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: Brian Conway on November 05, 2016, 07:39:02 PM
This C2AZ-A service replacement is black.  Brian
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: kateem30 on November 08, 2016, 04:04:31 PM
Thank you Brian!
Anyone with a blue sample?? :D
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: drummingrocks on November 09, 2016, 09:49:41 AM
Thank you Brian!
Anyone with a blue sample?? :D

I've seen blue ones, but I can't say for sure whether the ones I have seen came painted blue or were painted blue by a previous owner.
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: Bob Gaines on November 09, 2016, 07:59:14 PM
Thank you Brian!
Anyone with a blue sample?? :D
I have light blue ones which were factory on 67-70 bigblock Mustang.
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: kateem30 on November 11, 2016, 02:25:26 PM
Thanks!
Well, I can imagine a previous replacement in France where we had quite a lot of big blocks and not interested in keeping the originality of a car by the past!!
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: Bob Gaines on November 11, 2016, 05:57:13 PM
Thanks!
Well, I can imagine a previous replacement in France where we had quite a lot of big blocks and not interested in keeping the originality of a car by the past!!
They look basically the same . The difference is the number of coils. It would be hard to tell visually or even by feel IMO the difference .
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: Bossbill on August 09, 2018, 08:38:29 PM
It appears this thread is not only talking about 64 1/2-66, but 67-70.
Maybe it should be in the all years section?

Anyway, I have a few C2AZ-7534-A "Clutch Pedal Lever, Retracting" springs. The springs that attach to the pedal support via a bracket and to the clutch pedal itseld (as Brian pictured).

One is totally black and appears to have been dipped. I think this is a service replacement.

Another appears to be bare or a light phosphate. No other color present. I think this is the stock spring for my 67 SJ car.

The MCP states this spring is "8 15/16" long = 16 1/2 coils, #White"
Since I have little trust in the MPC as far as finish, is this spring a light phosphate color (I won't phosphate it due to embrittlement issues) and it has a strip, daub or something on the spring painted white?
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: jwc66k on August 10, 2018, 12:21:16 AM
(I won't phosphate it due to embrittlement issues)
The temperature of a functional phosphate solution cannot exceed 212F as it is just water with about 4 percent phosphoric acid. You got to go a lot higher, say 500F, to affect temper of a spring. Zinc plating (Cad may be included as well) does affect temper, which is why many zinc plated items are baked to release excessive hydrogen.
Jim
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: Bossbill on August 10, 2018, 04:40:31 PM
Jim -- I forgot the key word: hydrogen embrittlement.
It appears that any acidic process can introduce hydrogen into metals, especially hard metals (like springs).
https://www.finishing.com/34/80.shtml

I'm no expert here so perhaps I just play it safe by removing the light rust and using T9 on the spring. If I need color perhaps a little bit of gun bluing?

As far as overall color, daubs or stripes ...
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: Bob Gaines on August 10, 2018, 05:27:48 PM
Jim -- I forgot the key word: hydrogen embrittlement.
It appears that any acidic process can introduce hydrogen into metals, especially hard metals (like springs).
https://www.finishing.com/34/80.shtml

I'm no expert here so perhaps I just play it safe by removing the light rust and using T9 on the spring. If I need color perhaps a little bit of gun bluing?

As far as overall color, daubs or stripes ...
 " just play it safe by removing the light rust and using T9 on the spring. If I need color perhaps a little bit of gun bluing" That's the ticket.
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: Bossbill on August 10, 2018, 06:23:16 PM
Thanks Bob.

Thought I'd share this trick when dealing with tightly wound springs...

Make a tool (bolt and pipe) and place it inside the spring. Wind down the nut and expand the springs so they are no longer coil bound.
Cleaning and finishing now gets between the springs and makes for a much better looking part.

Here is mine after gun bluing (no T9 yet):

[edit] The pipe and the bolt are notched to keep the spring in their 'seats'.
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: Bob Gaines on August 10, 2018, 07:20:48 PM
Thanks Bob.

Thought I'd share this trick when dealing with tightly wound springs...

Make a tool (bolt and pipe) and place it inside the spring. Wind down the nut and expand the springs so they are no longer coil bound.
Cleaning and finishing now gets between the springs and makes for a much better looking part.

Here is mine after gun bluing (no T9 yet):

[edit] The pipe and the bolt are notched to keep the spring in their 'seats'.
That 67 small block under dash clutch return spring is black for sure . It is the 67 big block under dash version that is painted white. I confused the underdash spring with the engine compartment springs. The blue color I mentioned in a earlier post had to do with the 67 BB upper and lower return springs/anti rattle springs in the engine compartment. 
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: jwc66k on August 11, 2018, 12:24:10 AM
Thought I'd share this trick when dealing with tightly wound springs...
Make a tool (bolt and pipe) and place it inside the spring. Wind down the nut and expand the springs so they are no longer coil bound.
Cleaning and finishing now gets between the springs and makes for a much better looking part.
[edit] The pipe and the bolt are notched to keep the spring in their 'seats'.
Here's a different type spreading fixture I made for hood springs for use in the bead blast cabinet. It's removed for phosphating.
Jim
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: jwc66k on August 11, 2018, 12:40:15 AM
I forgot the key word: hydrogen embrittlement.
It appears that any acidic process can introduce hydrogen into metals, especially hard metals (like springs).
https://www.finishing.com/34/80.shtml
My plater, Bob, told me not to be concerned as the materials we are working with have already been subjected to any process that might induce hydrogen and have had it baked out. Hood springs, latch springs, and seat springs come to mind. None that I've done have had a problem. For new steel or iron parts, it may be a concern. 
Based on several requests, Bob got into phosphating, but the demand dwindled to the point that he referred vehicle parts phosphating to me and stopped doing any commerical effort. He sold his phosphoric acid to me right after that. It's been awhile since I did a batch on referral. One of the Corvette guys I did some stuff for, started his own side "business".
Jim 
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on August 11, 2018, 08:25:44 AM
Just to confirm: The clutch over-center spring was white in my big block Shelby.

                                                                                   -Keith
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: CT428CJ on September 06, 2018, 11:14:32 PM
Quote
Just to confirm: The clutch over-center spring was white in my big block Shelby.

Right.

1968 1/2 428 CJ Mustang white pedal assist spring shown below next to a black small block spring.

Quote
I have light blue ones which were factory on 67-70 bigblock Mustang.
I have a blue spring as well but can't find the photo at the moment.

The blue spring is appears to be made from a wire thickness that is about halfway between the black & white springs.
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: Bob Gaines on September 07, 2018, 12:00:28 AM
Right.

1968 1/2 428 CJ Mustang white pedal assist spring shown below next to a black small block spring.
 I have a blue spring as well but can't find the photo at the moment.

The blue spring is appears to be made from a wire thickness that is about halfway between the black & white springs.
The light blue springs are for the upper and lower Z bar seen from the engine compartment side.
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: CT428CJ on September 07, 2018, 12:02:34 AM
There is also a blue, under dash assist spring.
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: Bob Gaines on September 07, 2018, 12:47:08 AM
There is also a blue, under dash assist spring.
If you are implying that there are two springs used under dash 67/68 at the same time then I am very skeptical at the least. I have not seen two used under dash nor does the assemblyline manual indicate such . White is for BB , black is for 289HP ,289 and 6cyl.
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: CT428CJ on September 07, 2018, 08:43:26 PM
What I am saying is that the under dash assist spring could be black (289/302), blue (390?), or white (428), likely depending on the pressure plate that was installed in the car.
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: Bob Gaines on September 08, 2018, 01:03:27 AM
What I am saying is that the under dash assist spring could be black (289/302), blue (390?), or white (428), likely depending on the pressure plate that was installed in the car.
Like I indicated in the previous post - "White is for BB , black is for 289HP ,289 and 6cyl." BB means ether 390 or 428. There is not any evidence to support a blue spring with a wire size halfway between the black and the white from the factory observation. Personal observations of many corroborate the ether black or white.  You may want to review the Ford MPC and or the assemblyline manuals for 67 and 68. Those two information sources indicate black and white springs typically used.
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: CT428CJ on September 10, 2018, 09:58:43 PM
I am sure that you are right.

I have scanned a copy of a picture that I have of all three springs. Can you help identify the blue spring?
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: Bob Gaines on September 11, 2018, 12:27:53 AM
I am sure that you are right.

I have scanned a copy of a picture that I have of all three springs. Can you help identify the blue spring?
Sorry that I can not be of any help.  I have never seen the blue variety nor does it turn up in any of the manuals that I use to supplement the gaps in my own personal observations. Hopefully someone else has come across it and can shed some light on the application.
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: J_Speegle on September 11, 2018, 06:00:40 PM
.............Can you help identify the blue spring?

Let me give it a tray

Have this picture of such a spring (blue spring) in a package marked C9ZZ-7523-B

Hope this helps

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/11/6-110918165926.jpeg)
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: midlife on September 11, 2018, 06:25:42 PM
Jeff's part number is for a 390, 428, 429 8 cylinder engines for Mustangs, 1969/70 according to the 65-72 MPC (Section 75, page 8.
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: Bob Gaines on September 11, 2018, 06:54:32 PM
Let me give it a tray

Have this picture of such a spring (blue spring) in a package marked C9ZZ-7523-B

Hope this helps

(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/11/6-110918165926.jpeg)
Jeff, that can't be the same spring because the thicker pedal type return spring being discussed in the picture from reply 22 has only 13 coils . The coils on the one in your picture number 26 .Although there is little frame of reference the coils look much skinnier and it is a most likely smaller diameter spring from the looks of it in comparison with the bag and the size of the printing on the package.  I believe your picture is for the spring that goes on the upper z bar or lower z bar to the clutch fork.
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: J_Speegle on September 11, 2018, 06:59:04 PM
................ I believe your picture is for the spring that goes on the upper z bar or lower z bar to the clutch fork.

Checking the part number would tell you ;)  Just posted it as a blue clutch to an effort to help out as I'm catching you after a long weekend trip
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: CT428CJ on September 11, 2018, 09:56:09 PM
Thanks but the springs that I posted pictures of are the pedal assist springs from under the dash.

The person that I bought the blue spring from told me that it came out  of a '67 390 Mustang but I don't have proof.

It does work quite well in my 68 1/2.
Title: Re: Clutch return spring color
Post by: Bob Gaines on September 11, 2018, 10:52:25 PM
Thanks but the springs that I posted pictures of are the pedal assist springs from under the dash.

The person that I bought the blue spring from told me that it came out  of a '67 390 Mustang but I don't have proof.

It does work quite well in my 68 1/2.
I have only seen white springs in 67/68 390 equipped Mustangs. The assemblyline and other factory Ford manuals back my observation up.