ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1966 Mustang => Topic started by: sed6 on December 08, 2016, 01:14:11 AM
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I've attached some pics of my exhaust. Can I work with what's original (h-pipe? and bends over axle?) and get it back to original? I know I can throw $3k at it and buy a repo, but those vintage bends over the axle got me thinking about keeping what I can, especially if it's more cost effective. What would you do or suggest?
Thanks!
-Scott
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SCOTT
From pictures provided in your post.
the H pipe may be original but the itermediate pipe back including the mufflers are definitely not original to a factory GT exhaust system.....
sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
regards.
PHILL BERESFORD.
MELBOURNE.
AUSTRALIA.
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+1 on the back half and I'll go 1-step more....Throw it all out if you are going Concours. The H-pipe has been welded onto, so even IF it is original (and I doubt it is), the correct system will no longer connect to it.
As an Owner of a muffler shop who is capable of building my own systems, although those Flowmaster Mufflers sure sound nice (sounds even better with larger pipes, like 2-1/4' or larger ;) ), NONE of the back is correct, possibly even the trumpets are wrong unless perhaps the muffler shop welded only the tips back on. The originals would have different hangers and much more than that looks incorrect with the limited photos you shared. I'm looking for signs that this is even an original GT chassis.
Perhaps, seeing the hanger system behind the mufflers would help some.
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Thanks gents. The muffler hangers are a mess. Looks like they took universal ones and just welded them on the pipes wherever worked.
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I'm pretty positive it is a factory GT. The exhaust hangers, brake hanger and internal rear frame rail support are all there.
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As mentioned, nothing on the exhaust is right. Depending on your plans for the car, there is a lot of work needing to be done to get it up to concours level. You may want to hold off on the exhaust until everything else is right.
The dual exhaust chassis details appear legit.
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The dual exhaust chassis details appear legit.
Yep, I see enough to agree ;)
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As mentioned, nothing on the exhaust is right. Depending on your plans for the car, there is a lot of work needing to be done to get it up to concours level. You may want to hold off on the exhaust until everything else is right.
The dual exhaust chassis details appear legit.
Thanks Charles. I know I'm going to open up a can of worms here, but what else do you see? I do want to get it up to concours and am sure I have a ways to go.
I want to, as I'm sure many do, get the best bang for my buck. I'd rather spend $300 on a correct battery and get my 8 points back as opposed to $3k for exhaust and get (how many points, my judging sheets at home). For the cost of the exhaust I can get a correct radiator, carb, alternator and make a whole host of other corrections. But we all have to start somewhere :)
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This is documented in the 64-65 Mustang Chassis Assembly manual. The hardware part numbers, location of the brackets and some assembly instructions. From this you can match up to what's available from various parts suppliers.
I recommend you get a set for your car's year, plus the 64-65 Chassis Manual.
Jim
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Thanks Jim. I have the Body and Electrical assembly manuals. Is that another of the long red ones? I also have the 1966 Comet, Falcon, Fairlane & Mustang shop manual. Here's a good pic from it. The diagram says Hipo exhaust but the GT should be identical, no?
Thx!
-Scott
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Thanks Charles. I know I'm going to open up a can of worms here, but what else do you see? I do want to get it up to concours and am sure I have a ways to go.
You're probably looking at a complete re-do of the entire undercarriage. I'm not seeing much of anything that would pass in current condition. Trans looks nice, lower pan should be natural. Trans inspection plate should be semi-gloss black.
Although, if you plan to drive the car, then that changes things quite a bit and you have to decide what's more important. It's a personal decision. I'm not sure that it would be worth investing $3k in a Fuller exhaust on a driver.
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She is a driver. She's been nicely restored, but not to concours. Here's a pic.
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Nice looking Fastback! Bet you get lots of looks.
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Great looking car!
If it was me, I would install a good repro exhaust that fits and appears more closely to original. NPD or Va Mustang would be good sources for that. On the hangers, you may want to get the Fuller ones. His are an exact copy of originals.
The other details underneath can be done a little at a time. At some point if you want the undercarriage to be more correct, you'll have to completely strip off all the parts/drive-train and re-paint the red-oxide with proper over-spray. All the parts taken off would then be restored correctly before reinstalling. Could be a nice winter job if you have space/tools to do it.
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BTW, I do see one item that could possibly be safety related... the large thick washer for your leaf spring front eyebolt is missing on the LH side, probably on RH side too. I seriously doubt it could pull through, but would be best to put the right washer on there to keep from any damage to the frame rail.
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I've found that "generic" exhaust systems, "H" pipe, muffler and pipes, over the axle pipes, have had fit problems, all of which were fixable. The resonators from the kits were made wrong, not "squeezed" at the sides.
The biggest problem was with the hangers:
- the mounting plates from inside the car (ref 64-65 Chassis Manual, Ford 5B236), used the wrong size stud, and were without the lead point.
- the insulator hanger at the rear (Ford 5266), wrong bends, not stamped properly.
- the insulator at the rear (Ford 5A261), too thin.
- the two mount to the frame rail (Ford 5A571 LH, 5A235 RH), formed wrong, metal too thin.
- the four carriage bolts, 23530-S2, are supplied as a full length thread, they should be threaded about an inch.
Ironically the two insulators from the body at the seats to the rear of the mufflers (Ford 5A242) was very accurate.
Most of those "problems" have been corrected. But some of the above a friend got earlier this year were still incorrect.
Jim
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Hi there,
You will probably benefit from my experiences with a GT exhaust in this thread. http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=6815.15
The net result was all repro H-pipes that I tried fit horribly on my '65. I used a Scott Fuller H-pipe meant for a '68 GT-350 with a 302. It is a perfect fit. The only incorrect aspects are the part number and indexing tabs on connecting end to the intermediate pipes. The exhaust kit that I used was "decent" it fit properly with little modification (with the exception of the H-pipe), the resonators were dimpled on the sides and the length to the exhaust tips was decent.
Regards,
Ron
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Thanks all! Are the pipes going over the axles original or even the correct look? Specifically the crinkles in the bends, did they look like that at the factory? I'm a little surprised that all of the exhaust advertised as concours correct look to be mandrel bend and smooth. What's correct?
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smooth bends from the factory. what you have is aftermarket or muffler shop replacement pipes.
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smooth bends from the factory. what you have is aftermarket or muffler shop replacement pipes.
Thanks all! Are the pipes going over the axles original or even the correct look? Specifically the crinkles in the bends, did they look like that at the factory? I'm a little surprised that all of the exhaust advertised as concours correct look to be mandrel bend and smooth. What's correct?
For what it is worth, factory pipes are SMOOTH bends, YES...but not MANDREL bent. A Mandrel bend remains constant in diameter while most muffler shop bends and what was originally found on our Classic Mustangs were a standard, smooth bend. These bends actually "shrink" the pipe size some as the bend forms, more noticeable on bends over 45 degrees and VERY noticeable should the pipe be 2-1/4" or larger originally.
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The original process being referred to is called "pressure bending".
Regards,
Scott
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Great info all. Thx! So is this repo exhaust about the best I can get? The price hurts.
http://www.scottfullerreproductions.com/catalog/item/4595229/8979348.htm
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unless you are showing in thorobred class you do not need that particular system. NPD sells a perfectly acceptable on for much less $$.
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Great info all. Thx! So is this repo exhaust about the best I can get? The price hurts.
http://www.scottfullerreproductions.com/catalog/item/4595229/8979348.htm
Yes that is the best you can get reproduction. There are later Ford service exhaust systems that occasionally come up for sale and because their details are slightly different then assembly line sell for somewhat less then Scott's authentic looking reproductions. They other aftermarket systems vary in authenticity ,fit and of course price. A lot of options to help you to decide which is best for your situation. Pick your fights so to speak. If you sweated every single detail you could go crazy.
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unless you are showing in thorobred class you do not need that particular system. NPD sells a perfectly acceptable on for much less $$.
I believe there is a deduction, albeit small, for Fuller exhaust in t-bred class.
Personally, I'd like to see it on concours cars where applicable. It may be a bit pricey for a driver though.