ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1966 Mustang => Topic started by: OldGuy on February 15, 2018, 12:06:11 PM
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Guys, I'm in the process of restoring/detailing my rear leaf springs. Upon disassembly, I noted that the spring insert closest to the shackle eye-between the main leaf and the "second" leaf was a different shape (see photo) than the customary hex-shaped insert. Is this typical (and/or correct)? I haven't detailed any rear springs since Fred and Barney were driving around Bedrock so my memory is lacking on this detail.
My springs are the C4ZA-5556-S variety produced in October of '65.
Any guidance would be appreciated.
Frank
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My same exact leaf springs have the round inserts. I went to a local spring store to have them press in some new bushings and asked for a couple inserts since I had one or two missing. They gave me the hex inserts. Therefore I thought my round inserts were stock and the hex were new. One of us will be wrong and if its me I'm okay with that. I'm here to learn!
:)
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Not sure about 65 however when I disassembled my Jan Metuchen 66 springs they were all of the hex shape.
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The hex ones on the right
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Jeff, have you seen the round insert anomaly before? I'm confident that my springs have never been apart before. They are complete with original dirt, sloppy sprayed-on undercoating overspray and the original rusty round hole spring clamps.
In the distant past on other Mustang projects, I remember all 4 spring inserts were of the hex type. This set of spring inserts has me baffled.
Thanks for the feedback.
Frank
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My round spring inserts are worn out and almost completely flat, i'm pretty sure they are original on my metuchen 66 kar.
I'm wondering if some plants used round inserts too.
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Jeff, have you seen the round insert anomaly before? I'm confident that my springs have never been apart before. They are complete with original dirt, sloppy sprayed-on undercoating overspray and the original rusty round hole spring clamps.
Not that I recall. Just for the heck of it and to do our diligence How are your springs stamped? Horizontally or vertical to the long length of the spring?
Exploring it its a spring plant variation.
One of the reasons we typically ask (missed this time ::) When and where your car was assembled
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Jeff, my springs are stamped perpendicular to the length of the spring (or parallel to the rear axle).
The car is a San Jose car assembled sometime between mid November to mid December, 1965.
It doesn't appear like my round spring inserts are unique as evantugby said his car had similar (only one per spring) inserts.
Thanks for your reply and continued interest in all things Mustang.
Frank
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my springs C4ZA5556-S (295E5 date) stamps run perpendicular.
I pulled out three round inserts and noticed they all say "F" up top (hidden by shadow in picture) and each one had a different number: 5, 24, 10. I could not tell a difference between any of them.
Car was assembled 23 Oct 1965 at Metuchen.
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Jeff, my springs are stamped perpendicular to the length of the spring (or parallel to the rear axle).
The car is a San Jose car assembled sometime between mid November to mid December, 1965.
It doesn't appear like my round spring inserts are unique as evantugby said his car had similar (only one per spring) inserts.
Thanks the marking would be consistent to what we see as a supplier for San Jose that year.
Yes but the finding the same detail does not automatically make the detail original. We see this all the time. If you both had Michelin tires we wouldn't accept them as being original to the car ;)
His car was built at a different plant on the other side of the country and the plant was (for many parts) supplied from different suppliers. Since yours is San Jose I've likely seen tens of thousands of examples
Since these items often fall out or become worn it would not be unusual if the cars were serviced while being used as daily transportation for these to be replaced by a service station. I know we used to take them out of peoples cars and use them as Frisbee's around the service bays when we were kids ??? Kids do stupid things
Just thought of another thing. Did you find these at the loose spring or under the clamped leaf?
This might be the source of the difference since we don't see the clamped spring insulator (and I believe that is what you were referencing in the original post) as often as the unclamped
evantugby So you found only one version on your spring looking at the pictures your posted
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Jeff, these WERE at the loose end of the spring which explains how they could/would have been replaced without disassembly of the spring. The originals were probably lost or ended up as Frisbees back in the day.
Thanks again for your insight.
Frank
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evantugby[/b][/u] So you found only one version on your spring looking at the pictures your posted[/color]
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Huh?
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evantugby, please elaborate on you question. I don't know what you are asking.
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I wasn't following what Jeff's comment to me was about.
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Jeff, these WERE at the loose end of the spring which explains how they could/would have been replaced without disassembly of the spring.
Looked at a few more sets yesterday on cars I went to visit. All hex on those cars . Just sharing
I wasn't following what Jeff's comment to me was about.
Was just confirming that you found only the round style on your springs. Picture showed only three insulators
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Had another question about these inserts, did they use some type of dumdum to hold them in place while they were assembled? When I was taking mine apart I noticed a goo that was in the nipple of each spring that sort of held the insert in place.
Also, is there any insert on the small top spring with the stampings, I found nothing when I took mine apart, but was wondering about the smaller nipple indent and if something was supposed to be there?
Thanks,
Jason
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Had another question about these inserts, did they use some type of dumdum to hold them in place while they were assembled? When I was taking mine apart I noticed a goo that was in the nipple of each spring that sort of held the insert in place.
Also, is there any insert on the small top spring with the stampings, I found nothing when I took mine apart, but was wondering about the smaller nipple indent and if something was supposed to be there?
Thanks,
Jason
Cosmoline can be thick and may be what you are seeing. It was a preservative used on the springs when made.
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Had another question about these inserts, did they use some type of dumdum to hold them in place while they were assembled? When I was taking mine apart I noticed a goo that was in the nipple of each spring that sort of held the insert in place.
Agree with Bob that the "goo" may be Cosmoline but after all these years it could be anything. The cars have been through allot, sprayed and splashed with all sorts of things and no telling what some past owner may have sprayed on them in an effort to maintain or reserve
Also, is there any insert on the small top spring with the stampings, I found nothing when I took mine apart, but was wondering about the smaller nipple indent and if something was supposed to be there?
Those little features are only found on a small percentage of early springs - likely from one specific spring plant but as you have found they didn't get an insulator like the loner springs did
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Thanks guys, this helps a lot.
But of course I have one last question, I was looking at my original spray paint marks which look exactly like the attached photo. I'm wondering about the "course" spray. Basically what are people using to do these spray dots, I feel like if I use a can of spray paint the spatter pattern will be too fine and not as course as the example shown here or my own that I'm seeing.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks,
Jason
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Thanks guys, this helps a lot.
But of course I have one last question, I was looking at my original spray paint marks which look exactly like the attached photo. I'm wondering about the "course" spray. Basically what are people using to do these spray dots, I feel like if I use a can of spray paint the spatter pattern will be too fine and not as course as the example shown here or my own that I'm seeing.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks,
Jason
Jason, I believe that you are over-thinking the paint daub details. Put yourself on the spring assembly line 50+ years ago when "a bunch" of these springs were coming across the line and it was your job to mark them. If you were "armed" with two spray cans of paint (one yellow-one green) you probably weren't too concerned about exactly where or how you were going to apply the required paint markings. I'm sure that you were more than likely a little more messy at the end of the shift than you were at the beginning.
Having said all of that, point the spray can(s) in about the correct place and shoot! If the paint runs, that's ok (my springs had "factory" runs in some of the marks. In this case, I think messy is a little more believable than "concours neat" .
Just my 2 dollars worth (inflation).
Frank
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Here is my suggestion make yourself a cardboard mask. Cut a round hole about the size of the dot you want to spray. Hold the cardboard about three inches above the spring when you spray the color. You should get a fuzzy dot. A few practice dots on some scrap cardboard will help.
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But of course I have one last question, I was looking at my original spray paint marks which look exactly like the attached photo. I'm wondering about the "course" spray. Basically what are people using to do these spray dots, I feel like if I use a can of spray paint the spatter pattern will be too fine and not as course as the example shown here or my own that I'm seeing.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Two good recommendations. Consider that when cleaning we often remove much if not all of the finer spray leaving only the solid and courser paint so you may be chasing something that is not as close to what the original looked like. Sometimes we over evaluate what we find forgetting to take into consideration things we should. Just my thoughts.
With a little practice you'll get a feeling for how to control and get what your looking for I'm sure :)
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Think assembly line. The worker identifying these parts is "bored", "stressed" and has "a lot to do". His job is not to be neat, but to identify the items quickly. Many of the identifying marks have "runs", as in a spray nozzle (gun or rattle can) held too close. It was done ONCE per mark per spring (see "bored", "stressed" and has "a lot to do"). In other words, don't try to be neat.
The same "technique" applies to the use of a paint brush to identify.
Jim
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Here is my suggestion make yourself a cardboard mask. Cut a round hole about the size of the dot you want to spray. Hold the cardboard about three inches above the spring when you spray the color. You should get a fuzzy dot. A few practice dots on some scrap cardboard will help.
Most spray paint cans now have a fan spray nozzle, so I've used the same cardboard cutout to replicate the circular pattern. I suppose one could find spray nozzles to replicate the circular pattern. It would be hard to replicate with a paint gun as the spray is usually very fine, depending on the tip used.
The thing to note here is this was not a surgical-type of application. These paint markings were done quickly with no additional attention given other than applying the correct colors. Splatter, runs..., that's just how it was.
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Oh I know, I'm not really trying to be "neat" or precise at all and get a perfect circle or anything... and I definitely like drips and runs and do all my markings a fast and sloppy as it would have been done ( a lot of coffee sometimes or a few beers really help achieve the desired results ;).
It was more I was noticing how course the spatter pattern was around the edges, and other examples of peoples spray dots on these springs that I've seen have had too soft of an edge IMO to what I'm seeing on the real examples. I like the cardboard idea, I could see that spattering the edges nicely, I'll give that a shot. I might also try to get the nozzle all dirty and clogged prior and see if that might help.
Thanks,
Jason