ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: must69 on May 23, 2018, 10:34:28 PM
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Was there a radio suppression device on a 64-1/2 260 generator car? I am working on an original car and there is not any. The Electrical Assembly Manual shows one on the rear of the generator, but my car does not have one. Retro vendors say they are attached to the voltage regulator. The car has a factory radio.
Thanks.
Phil
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My May 18th convertible has the one on the voltage regulator.
Mark
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Can your provide a photo?
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With the shields on the generator I can't provide any pictures showing where or when there was one attached to the generator
If you look at the threads on those 65 with alternators and radios you will find them at the alternator and the voltage regulators (two of them)
I suppose you used the search and found the related threads. I used "suppressor generator"
Threads like with some pictures ;)
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=11988.msg72482#msg72482 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=11988.msg72482#msg72482)
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=2154.msg24378#msg24378 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=2154.msg24378#msg24378)
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With the shields on the generator I can't provide any pictures showing where or when there was one attached to the generator
In the 64 Mustang Electrical Assembly Manual (AM003 pg71) there is a condenser (C3AA-18827-A) shown with the lead attached to an existing stud and retained by an existing screw (they call it a bolt) and washer; and a second (C3AA-18832-A) attached to a voltage regulator terminal and retained by a regulator mounting screw.
Jim
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Thanks Jeff. My car was original as it can get. Built July 14, generator, 260 and it did not have a suppressor at all. Just looked at photos and there is isn't one there. The only thing i can think of is that it was a dealer installed radio, and the suppressor was never installed, at the point of purchase as "Radio" is on the original invoice. I do not know of any way to determine if it is factory or dealer installed.
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Jim, I have that manual, so I will check that out.
Thanks.
Phil
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I do not have a 1964 or 1965 Shop Manual, however, other Shop Manuals I have from the 50's to the 70's all cover Radio Suppression in the Section covering Radioes. Note that an Alternator does not require one on it like generators as the alternators have a built-in suppression.
I have attached typical set-ups from 1962 and 1966 Shop Manuals.
Bob
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I do not have a 1964 or 1965 Shop Manual, however, other Shop Manuals I have from the 50's to the 70's all cover Radio Suppression in the Section covering Radioes. Note that an Alternator does not require one on it like generators as the alternators have a built-in suppression.
I have attached typical set-ups from 1962 and 1966 Shop Manuals.
The 65 Mustang Electrical Manual (AM0008 pg 61) shows the alternator with condenser C5TA-18827-A1 or -A2 installed with the AM radio as well as a second condenser, C3SA-18832-A on the regulator. See attached.
Shop manuals depict service requirements, not factory original.
Jim
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................Note that an Alternator does not require one on it like generators as the alternators have a built-in suppression.
Believe you will find that initially alternators did require the suppression, as we have found on tons of original 65's, but that changed fairly quickly. Recall it being a 65 verses 66 thing. Part number was C5TA-18827-A and they were being reproduced by Virginia Mustang
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=12101.msg73357#msg73357 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=12101.msg73357#msg73357)
Some discussion on the subject here
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=2154.msg24378#msg24378 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=2154.msg24378#msg24378)
And for example pictures in unrestored threads such as this
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=7839.msg45560#msg45560 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=7839.msg45560#msg45560)
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Also something to consider is whether it is needed in today's world or if is needed because the car is supposed to have one from a historical standpoint. Today's alternators and or predominate FM radio stations may not need the extra one at the alternator but the typical 65 alt harness has a plug for one to be added for when a radio was used besides the second one that was to be mounted at the regulator. I'm not familiar if the generator car harness has the extra plug or not. If no plug most likely no suppressor. 1966 alternator harness did not have the extra plug for a alternator mounted suppressor and only had one at the regulator. That fact should answer the question in the context of if it is supposed to be there or engineered to be there. Given the direction this website is gear for I can only default to assume that is the answer you are looking for.
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Bob, I have a very original 64.5 that did not have the supressor. I became aware of it while searching a supplier catalog and began asking about it. The 64.5 harness does not have a plug for the supressor. It connects with a spade terminal on the voltage regulator. Jeff found the detail info in the Electrical Assembly book. I will assume it needs to be there, and I assume it was a dealer installed radio and the supressor was never installed. Unsure at this time what time of radio we will install.
Thanks for your input.
Phil
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The suppressor on the alternator is a 65 thing. 66's had one built into the alternator. Not sure about a suppressor on the generator cars.
Would concur that if your car is missing the suppressor on the regulator, that it has a dealer installed radio. My 4500 mile 65 coupe has a dealer installed radio and no suppressors installed? Probably went in the mechanics tool box.
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Thanks for the info. Is there any way to tell if it was a dealer installed radio?
Phil
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At one time I thought that Mustang factory radios said "Mustang" on the face plate, and dealer radios said "Ford". This my be an old wives tale.
Jim
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Jim, I’ll have to check when I get back home ( on vacation now). I would think they may have said Philco.
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Thanks for the info. Is there any way to tell if it was a dealer installed radio?
Phil
Think it depends if the dealer used a Ford radio kit or one of the aftermarket ones I believe.
As for the suppressor (need to see if I have a picture of a Ford kit) don't recall if the suppressors were included in the kit or they were a separate part number and package. Recall them being in a kit (just a radio suppressor kit) but don't recall if they were also included in the full kit. If separate then a dealer might have forgotten but one would expect the owner would complain and it to have been fixed when they found that they got allot of static and couldn't listen to the radio they paid extra for
Question still remains if a generator has the same problems. Can't remember if the cars from the 40;s - 50's I've owned had suppressors
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You would think they would have complained. I bought the car in 2008 from the original owner, and it only has 31,000 miles on it, and sat in a garage with a blown engine since 1972. They did not change the oil often. Had the what I believe to be the original belts and hoses. Bearing all that in mind, the noise might not have bothered them at all.
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Jim, I’ll have to check when I get back home ( on vacation now). I would think they may have said Philco.
Yeah. I remember them. I worked for Philco-Ford for 18 years. They "altered" their name often.
Jim
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Think it depends if the dealer used a Ford radio kit or one of the aftermarket ones I believe.
As for the suppressor (need to see if I have a picture of a Ford kit) don't recall if the suppressors were included in the kit or they were a separate part number and package. Recall them being in a kit (just a radio suppressor kit) but don't recall if they were also included in the full kit. If separate then a dealer might have forgotten but one would expect the owner would complain and it to have been fixed when they found that they got allot of static and couldn't listen to the radio they paid extra for
Question still remains if a generator has the same problems. Can't remember if the cars from the 40;s - 50's I've owned had suppressors
The early kits I have had came with the suppressor . I have never had a 65 set but assume it came with two (alt cars anyway).
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my 64 1/2 and 65 radio kits both come with radio suppressors in a seperate sealed bag with other accessories
havent opened my 66 one as yet
regards.
PHILL BERESFORD
MELBOURNE.
AUSTRALIA.
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Found this picture today searching for another
Sorry didn't recall having it
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-100718200437.jpeg)
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Now that is interesting!
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Just checked my tear down photos.
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Found this picture today searching for another
Sorry didn't recall having it
Same as on the pace car I restored.
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Just happen to have this on the bench
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I know they were throwing whatever they could at production, but it’s strange why the suppressor is found in two different places. I wonder if the assembly line installed radios were on the generator and the dealer installed radios on the voltage regulator?
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I know they were throwing whatever they could at production, but it’s strange why the suppressor is found in two different places.
Don't believe that they were "throwing whatever they could at production" no real evidence of that from workers or managers I've have talked to. Just the typical start of sort of things and its not like they were starting to build any car without the parts needed in place, ready to go.
I wonder if the assembly line installed radios were on the generator and the dealer installed radios on the voltage regulator?
As we can see with the slightly later cars Ford used two of the suppressors so finding one in two different but logical locations may just indicate that on one car the regulator one is missing and the other the generator one is after all these years.
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Not to argue the point Jim, but they were really scratching sources to satisfy the demand for production.
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Not to argue the point Jim, but they were really scratching sources to satisfy the demand for production.
Its Jeff and though they were busy filling demand they weren't leaving off parts or randomly changing things on the fly to satisfy it from what I have been told by some there at the time. Not to argue the point either but maybe your car has been changed since day 1. We just need to find additional examples and try and apply the multiple finding guide to get a better picture of production at that time
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Jeff, sorry about the “Jim”. I never implied parts were being left off.
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"66's had one built into the alternator. Not sure about a suppressor on the generator cars."
That would explain why all the '66 cars that I've ever owned never had one...but I thought they just eliminated it from the alternator... I had no idea that there was any surpression at all actually inside the 1966 Alternator.... This is new news to me.... Thanks...!
:o)
Tony K.
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"66's had one built into the alternator. Not sure about a suppressor on the generator cars."
That would explain why all the '66 cars that I've ever owned never had one...but I thought they just eliminated it from the alternator... I had no idea that there was any surpression at all actually inside the 1966 Alternator.... This is new news to me.... Thanks...!
:o)
Tony K.
Not really. Even though from 66 on the alternator had a built in suppressor it still had one installed at the regulator also. A 65 radio car had one on the alternator AND the regulator.
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"Even though from 66 on the alternator had a built in suppressor it still had one installed at the regulator also. "
Yeah Bob, Knew that already. We were just primarily talking about the Alternator in the discussion..
We weren't even dealing with the one at the VR...
:o)
Tony K.
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"Even though from 66 on the alternator had a built in suppressor it still had one installed at the regulator also. "
Yeah Bob, Knew that already. We were just primarily talking about the Alternator in the discussion..
We weren't even dealing with the one at the VR...
:o)
Tony K.
Well I suppose you just didn't read all of the posts otherwise you wouldn't have written that mis informed statement "We weren't even dealing with the one at the VR" . "We" talked about both. JWC66K in reply #8,MGMRADIO reply#12, OURLAWINCORPORATED reply #20 ,MUST69 Reply#26,and J-SPEEGLE reply#27 .
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No, You're absolutely right... I didn't read the entire thread. I just responded to that particular question on that particular page..
Tisk, Tisk on me...
:o)
Tony K.
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No, You're absolutely right... I didn't read the entire thread. I just responded to that particular question on that particular page..
Tisk, Tisk on me...
:o)
Tony K.
No worries ,"we" understand. ;)
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If one had looked at my Reply #7, you'd see that in the '62 Shop Manual (as well as back to the early 50's), the use of suppressors (condensers) on both the Generator and VR was a common part of Ford's "Suppression Package". I don't know why the 1965 Generators, etc. would be any different.
Bob
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images of the 2 NOS suppressors I have in my NOS 64 1.2 radio kit
regards.
PHILL BERESFORD
MELBOURNE.
AUSTRALIA.
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Perfect. Thanks!
Phil
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Hi guys,
Is this installed the correct way round or should the wire be at the bottom of the suppressor?
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Hi guys,
Is this installed the correct way round or should the wire be at the bottom of the suppressor?
Suppressor is installed in your picture in the correct direction - pig tail to the engine side and step in the bracket forward over the alternator case as shown in a number of 65 San Jose (since I'm guessing that is the application your asking about) in the unrestored picture section on the site. At least in one picture the pigtail and the wire it connects to is orientated and passes under the the main alternator wire loom
EC-5 in Fall 64 San Jose C Code Coupe thread
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Thanks Jeff
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Hi everyone,
I don't have the condenser on the generator.
Is it compulsory, and what are the specifications ?
In the meantime, all the best
Didier
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Hi everyone,
I don't have the condenser on the generator.
Is it compulsory, and what are the specifications ?
In the meantime, all the best
Didier
Yes. It is required if you want static-free radio reception. Generators were very "noisy".
The first thing to determine is the Ford part number. It is C3AA-18827-A -
In the 64 Mustang Electrical Assembly Manual (AM003 pg71) there is a condenser (C3AA-18827-A) shown with the lead attached to an existing stud and retained by an existing screw (they call it a bolt) and washer; and a second (C3AA-18832-A) attached to a voltage regulator terminal and retained by a regulator mounting screw.
I looked at the 60-68 and 75 editions of Ford Car Parts and what is show can be confusing.
But, I found this link:
https://classicradiospeakers.com/c3aa-18827-a
I don't know if they still have inventory, or what their shipping policy is to your location.
Jim
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Thanks for your quick answer
Have a good day,
Didier