ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Processes, Products & Techniques => Topic started by: Morsel on May 24, 2018, 01:54:03 PM
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Hello all, I've been searching around and trying to find people methods for getting leaf springs ready for final gun blueing. I know you are not supposed to blast leaf springs, and I also know I'm going to need to remove the black paint they were painted with and then soak in evaporust, which I've already made my jig for to handle the large pieces.
The main question I have I guess is preparing the surface prior to blueing and when I'm removing the paint, do you use a wire brush or wheel, or some other surface preparation, do I use my "Crud Thud" to strip the paint and surface prep? I assume we want these as clean and nice as possible without blasting, which everything else I've blasted and the metal is beautiful prior to blueing.
Anyway, any thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated.
thanks,
Jason
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I know that Eaton Detroit Spring can shot peen them for a cost. I had them do my new rear springs as well as my original front coils, turned out great.
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I know that Eaton Detroit Spring can shot peen them for a cost. I had them do my new rear springs as well as my original front coils, turned out great.
That's something, do you happen to remember what the price was and how long they took to do it, I assume shipping wasn't to cheap since these are so heavy...
Thanks for the response,
Jason
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I want to say about 25 bucks per spring. I live in the area, so shipping was not an issue. I would guess that would be the catch.
For those that are ordering new, they can request it before they ship.
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I want to say about 25 bucks per spring. I live in the area, so shipping was not an issue. I would guess that would be the catch.
For those that are ordering new, they can request it before they ship.
Yeah, I called, going to be too expensive in the long run and take too long, but I did learn that I'm going to shot peen them myself, learned the process and sounds like it's really not that different from blasting for the most part. So I'm going to give it a shot. I'll let you all know how it goes...
Jason
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I am glad you posted your question. My next project will probably be my rear suspension, which won’t start until winter. I figured the “not blasting springs” was a bit of a myth. Obviously an aggressive, heat producing industrial blast should be avoided, but was planning on glass beading mine. I might be taking a different approach.
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I would think shot peening would remove my stamped in numbers.
Don't know why media blasting would be bad ...
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I know you are not supposed to blast leaf springs,
Really. The biggest problem I had was putting a 4 foot long spring in a 33 inch wide cabinet. :)
As Bill said, shot peening will obliterate any part number markings.
I used an old stainless 24 X 36 X 3 inch steel pan, the type that was used in restaurant steam tables, to phosphate the spring sections.
Jim
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SNIP ...
I used an old stainless 24 X 36 X 3 inch steel pan, the type that was used in restaurant steam tables, to phosphate the spring sections.
Jim
I need to go to my restaurant supply store and get some of those long pans. I can't even fit my accelerator Z bend piece in anything.
And yes Jim, I read your post on the subject (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=4796.msg26690#msg26690)!
[edit to correct spelling of Jim!]
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Really. The biggest problem I had was putting a 4 foot long spring in a 33 inch wide cabinet. :)
As Bill said, shot peening will obliterate any part number markings.
I used an old stainless 24 X 36 X 3 inch steel pan, the type that was used in restaurant steam tables, to phosphate the spring sections.
Jim
So Jim, are you saying that blasting them isn't a problem? I heard and read that you should never blast leaf springs because it does something to the tempering. But thanks for the info on the numbers, definitely watch out for that while I'm doing it.
And yes, already have a rig setup one my blast cabinet, made a dental dam at the door out of rubber and made a small slit in it that I can slip one end of the long sprint into, blast it and and then flip it, has tight seals and all, it'll get the job done that's for sure ;)
Jason
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I sand-blasted mine out in the driveway with a portable pick-up tube in a 5 gallon bucket of sand. These were replacement springs, so ruining an OEM set was not an issue. I cleaned them up, painted them (gasp!), and installed them. Never had a problem in 20k miles thereafter.
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Well, I use glass bead as my media anyway which is less brutal, maybe what I'll do is blast them clean with the glass and then give them a soft peening with shot afterwards since I have the media anyway... can't hurt I figure...
Thanks for all the info everyone...
Jason
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Well, I use glass bead as my media anyway which is less brutal, maybe what I'll do is blast them clean with the glass and then give them a soft peening with shot afterwards since I have the media anyway... can't hurt I figure...
Thanks for all the info everyone...
Jason
You will not see or experience any difference regardless IMO. Given the many dozens I am personally aware of (both show and track)and hundreds and most likely thousands others that have sandblasted/bead blasted etc and put back into service without issue the practice would suggest that it is only a issue under the most extreme of conditions. Just my 2 cents.
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Media blasting is for cleaning. You have to get into very large industrial media/sand blasters before you could introduce enough heat to de-temper a spring (around 650F to start). I've seen sheetmetal get deformed by industrial (ship) sand balsters.
Shot peeing is generally not for cleaning but to relieve stress in metal (plastic deformation) to prevent cracks.
Peening is a good idea in a spring and while it might do some amount of cleaning, that's not its main purpose.
The media process is abrasion. The peening process is plasticity (thanks WIKI).
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I don't know where the old wives tale about bead blasting harming a heat treated part started (Here be dragons and sea monsters), but -
You have to get into very large industrial media/sand blasters before you could introduce enough heat to de-temper a spring (around 650F to start).
- that was the reality. I've blasted thru a ripped glove only to get glass beads all over everything. There was no appreciable heat there.
Media blasting is for cleaning. ~~
~~ I've seen sheetmetal get deformed by industrial (ship) sand balsters.
More reality.
I play games with blasting too. After the item is blasted, I've used a VERY CLEAN (oil and grease are your enemy) wire brush to change the look of what I've blasted, mostly before zinc plating.
One hint - do not handle any item after you've blasted it. Wear rubber gloves, or use shop towels. Be paranoid about keeping the item clean.
Jim
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One hint - do not handle any item after you've blasted it. Wear rubber gloves, or use shop towels. Be paranoid about keeping the item clean.
Jim
Haha, learned that one the hard way a while back, now I always wear rubber gloves when handling every piece I blast through the final coating process...
Jason
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I recently blasted a new set of springs from Eaton to remove the paint in preparation for blueing. I too have a blast cabinet that is too narrow to fit a spring section into. So, I opened up the end door and, with a lot of duct tape and heavy plastic, I built a "balloon" on the end of the cabinet to allow the spring to fit in. It worked pretty well except that a lot of the media would collect in the "balloon" so I would have to occasionally shake it back into the cabinet.
If your doing a new set of springs, the paint that Eaton uses is tougher than nails so I found that applying some heavy duty paint stripper prior to blasting helped a lot.
For soaking large parts like spring sections or drive shafts in Evaporust, a trough can be easily built using plastic rain gutter parts. Another, albeit pricey technique, is to use a large plastic garbage can as a dipping tank...obviously takes a significant amount of Evaporust to fill it but it will last a long time and you can do a lot of parts all at once.
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I recently blasted a new set of springs from Eaton to remove the paint in preparation for blueing. I too have a blast cabinet that is too narrow to fit a spring section into. So, I opened up the end door and, with a lot of duct tape and heavy plastic, I built a "balloon" on the end of the cabinet to allow the spring to fit in. It worked pretty well except that a lot of the media would collect in the "balloon" so I would have to occasionally shake it back into the cabinet.
If your doing a new set of springs, the paint that Eaton uses is tougher than nails so I found that applying some heavy duty paint stripper prior to blasting helped a lot.
For soaking large parts like spring sections or drive shafts in Evaporust, a trough can be easily built using plastic rain gutter parts. Another, albeit pricey technique, is to use a large plastic garbage can as a dipping tank...obviously takes a significant amount of Evaporust to fill it but it will last a long time and you can do a lot of parts all at once.
I have made some odd shaped soaking tanks out of plastic sheets and using plywood sides and bottom cut to make shapes that require the least amount of fluid material.
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For soaking large parts like spring sections or drive shafts in Evaporust, a trough can be easily built using plastic rain gutter parts. Another, albeit pricey technique, is to use a large plastic garbage can as a dipping tank...obviously takes a significant amount of Evaporust to fill it but it will last a long time and you can do a lot of parts all at once.
I have made some odd shaped soaking tanks out of plastic sheets and using plywood sides and bottom cut to make shapes that require the least amount of fluid material.
This is why I buy Rust911. Same thing essentially as your EvpoRust only it is affordable.
$60 goes a REALLY long way! Hind sight being 20/20, I would have just bought 4-5 gallons (makes 64-80 gallons) up front, built a few boxes like Bob mentioned and just dipped everything WHOLE instead of in sections like I ended up doing. $300 is REALLY CHEAP when you see the result and consider how much extra time I spend screwing around trying to "be cheap and affordable".
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I would have just bought 4-5 gallons
I buy Evaporust in 5 gallon buckets on Amazon. If you are a Prime member shipping is free! I wouldn't say it's cheap but is much more affordable that way than buying it by the gallon at Walmart, etc...It's about $80 for 5 gallons on Amazon.
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I buy Evaporust in 5 gallon buckets on Amazon. If you are a Prime member shipping is free! I wouldn't say it's cheap but is much more affordable that way than buying it by the gallon at Walmart, etc...It's about $80 for 5 gallons on Amazon.
AMAZON is a great tool for savings! I like to use them too, however...
5 gallon bucket of Evapo-Rust = 5 gallons of Dip (COST around $1280 for 80 gallons or $899 for 55 gallon barrel)
5 gallons of Rust911 CONCENTRATE = 80 gallons of Dip (COST around $300 for same 80 gallons, also with FREE shipping)
I like the math! I also LOVE the results, I have tried Evapo-Rust and believe it to be phenomenal! I have ALSO used Rust911 ever since I tried it and will NEVER go back when I see the savings. To date, I have had no ill-effects of using this product.
Don't forget to buy a gallon their MetalShield 2009 to guard against Flash Rust, an affordable alternative to Boeshield T9
https://www.amazon.com/Rust911-16-gallons-Economical-Safe-Use/dp/B0031HQJWW?SubscriptionId=AKIAJ2F6RDUSIYCWQMFQ&tag=sa-sym-new-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B0031HQJWW
https://www.rust911.com/
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I actually came up with a super cheap and easy way to soak my springs in Evaprorust that doesn't use that much product. I bought one of those black 4 inch flex tubings from the hardware store for about $10. It's just a little wider then the spring and about 10 feet long. Because it's flexible it bends to the shape of the spring. I then just bent the end up close to the long spring ends, poured in about 2 1/2 containers of Evaporust which filled the tube and now is soaking my long spring. I have to do the long ones one at a time, but the short ones all fit together. Anyway, thought this might help people in the future save a touch of money... also easy to pour back into the containers when your done.
On a side note, yes, I had to strip the paint off first with stripper, I'm going to soak each one, then blast them and onward ;)
Thanks,
Jason
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I actually came up with a super cheap and easy way to soak my springs in Evaprorust that doesn't use that much product. I bought one of those black 4 inch flex tubings from the hardware store for about $10. It's just a little wider then the spring and about 10 feet long. Because it's flexible it bends to the shape of the spring. I then just bent the end up close to the long spring ends, poured in about 2 1/2 containers of Evaporust which filled the tube and now is soaking my long spring. I have to do the long ones one at a time, but the short ones all fit together. Anyway, thought this might help people in the future save a touch of money... also easy to pour back into the containers when your done.
On a side note, yes, I had to strip the paint off first with stripper, I'm going to soak each one, then blast them and onward ;)
Thanks,
Jason
Good alternative container . I like the easy to pour out aspect compared to the way I did it. I wanted to ask why the extra steps? Strip paint ,soak in Evaporust, then blasting. Why wouldn't you go from painter stripper straight to blasting?
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I bought one of those black 4 inch flex tubings from the hardware store for about $10. It's just a little wider then the spring and about 10 feet long.
I like it. You're using the contents of the hat rack for the good of all mankind.
Jim
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I like it. You're using the contents of the hat rack for the good of all mankind.
Jim
Plus I can attach it to my down spout from my rain gutters afterward and direct water away from the garage ;)
Good alternative container . I like the easy to pour out aspect compared to the way I did it. I wanted to ask why the extra steps? Strip paint ,soak in Evaporust, then blasting. Why wouldn't you go from painter stripper straight to blasting?
My springs were a disaster, they were super rusty under some epoxy paint, I tried first just blasting, no good, then even after using stripper, there was still paint left, I soaked in Evaporust after that and strangely because of the rust they painted over, a lot more came off. They look pretty good, but the main reason I'm blasting afterwards is to even out the over all finish and surface before I gun blue, I want as even a surface tone as I can get prior, it's a large area and going to be battling a smooth even finish already...
One thing that was fun, I found some paint marks while I was stripping them, for future reference, 1966 February 10th San Jose factory GT K-Code, driver side springs had green and yellow spray dots, passenger side had green and yellow stripes, mixed, have you seen this before?
Thanks,
Jason
Thanks,
Jason
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Plus I can attach it to my down spout from my rain gutters afterward and direct water away from the garage ;)
Rain? In "parched" California? Only in the movies. 8)
Jim
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Plus I can attach it to my down spout from my rain gutters afterward and direct water away from the garage ;)
My springs were a disaster, they were super rusty under some epoxy paint, I tried first just blasting, no good, then even after using stripper, there was still paint left, I soaked in Evaporust after that and strangely because of the rust they painted over, a lot more came off. They look pretty good, but the main reason I'm blasting afterwards is to even out the over all finish and surface before I gun blue, I want as even a surface tone as I can get prior, it's a large area and going to be battling a smooth even finish already...
One thing that was fun, I found some paint marks while I was stripping them, for future reference, 1966 February 10th San Jose factory GT K-Code, driver side springs had green and yellow spray dots, passenger side had green and yellow stripes, mixed, have you seen this before?
Thanks,
Jason
Thanks,
Jason
I have seen mixed before just a seldom occurrence in the big picture . It is typically a earlier 66 date around the transition time.
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One thing that was fun, I found some paint marks while I was stripping them, for future reference, 1966 February 10th San Jose factory GT K-Code, driver side springs had green and yellow spray dots, passenger side had green and yellow stripes, mixed, have you seen this before?
Have seen this many times but then I see allot more San Jose examples than most ::)
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OK, one last question here, about to get these ready to assemble my leaf springs, does anyone use any grease or wax between each spring to promote a good "slide" and avoid any spring noise between each leaf or do you just go raw metal to metal ;) Obviously these will be Boeshield'ed prior to assembly.
Thanks,
Jason
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OK, one last question here, about to get these ready to assemble my leaf springs, does anyone use any grease or wax between each spring to promote a good "slide" and avoid any spring noise between each leaf or do you just go raw metal to metal ;) Obviously these will be Boeshield'ed prior to assembly.
Thanks,
Jason
I have seen it done ether way but personally would apply some grease.
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I have seen it done ether way but personally would apply some grease.
That's what I thought, seems like it wouldn't hurt anything, that's for sure...
Thanks,
Jason