ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Parts => Topic started by: CCP on October 02, 2018, 09:44:56 AM
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Recently swapped out a top loader 4 speed that was in a '70 Boss 2 that came into the shop. The transmission has the tag number RUG AV. According to David Kee website, it decodes as a 1970 Mustang, 302 351, wide ratio, 28 spline. The trans was quiet and shifted smooth. Very nice inside. Just wondering what it might be worth?
Thanks, Pete.
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Bare transmission?
Worth considerable more with 1970 Ford Hurst shift lever assembly, T handle, rods, backup switch assembly with harness, and the very hard to find 4 speed lock out rod for the steering column. $1600+ ?
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Just the transmission. I had to put all those parts back on the car.
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I thought all Boss 302's got close-ratio 4 speeds, not wide ratio. Does the stamped VIN on the tranny match the car? If not confirmed that it originally came from a B2, then it is a "generic" toploader, worth $800-$1200.
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I guess I should have explained my post a little better. Sorry. The numbers matching transmission came with the car separately, and this wide ratio trans was in the car. I reunited the original box with the car, and ended up with the one that I took out. Just trying to get a ball park as to what it is worth.
$800 to $1200 gives me a good idea. Thanks again, and sorry for the confusion. :-[
Pete.
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I thought all Boss 302's got close-ratio 4 speeds, not wide ratio. Does the stamped VIN on the tranny match the car? If not confirmed that it originally came from a B2, then it is a "generic" toploader, worth $800-$1200.
Wide and close ratios available with Boss 302 - 1969-70. Close ratio is more common.
You might be thinking of the 1969-70 Cobra Jets's which only came with Code 6, close ratio 4 speeds?
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So would the wide ratio box tend to bring a little bit more than the close?
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So would the wide ratio box tend to bring a little bit more than the close?
Probably the opposite. Close ratio trannies were made in far fewer quantities than wide-ratio, and were designed for road racing applications (as a gross generalization). A person wanting a close ratio toploader will have a harder time finding one and would likely be willing to pay a premium for it.
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Hmm... now I am confused. One poster says that the wide ratio is scarce, the other says just the opposite. I always thought the wide gearbox was a little harder to come by. Anybody....?
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The "standard" 4 speed Top Loader for V-8 applications were wide ratio (the same wide ratio for T-10 transmissions). A close ratio was "automatically" included with 289 HP engines in 64-66 as part of that option. I assume the same for 67 289 HP, including Shelby. My 69 Sportsroof had a wide ratio with the 351W 4V. I believe that a close ratio was an option for all V-8 engines from 67 thru 73, but standard on "performance" engine options. What this means is wide ratios transmissions are more plentiful. The difference was internal so a good transmission shop can "make" you one. Tag's optional.
Jim
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Thanks for clearing that up. ( Clever puns too! ) ;)
Pete.
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If not confirmed that it originally came from a B2, then it is a "generic" toploader, worth $800-$1200.
Just FYI, There's no specific toploader for a Boss 302, all 70 small blocks used the same 2 transmissions , RUG AV (wide ratio) and RUG AW (close ratio). The only way the transmission would be specific to a Boss would be if the partial Vin on the case came back to a Boss 302. It would be worth more to the owner of that car, but to anyone else, it's just another 70 toploader. The wide ratio boxes are a lot more common, but are also more in demand and easier to sell. (the 2.78 first gear also makes a boss a lot nicer to drive....) 800 - 1200 is right on the money for an AV, AW's sell for about 200 more, and AZ's sell for about 1700-2000 in nice shape. (RUG AZ is the "big in, big out" 428-Boss 429 1970 box)
JMHO, John
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Pete, does the trans you pulled out have a partial VIN stamp on it?
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It does. 06846. That's all of it.
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It does. 06846. That's all of it.
Thank you Sir! Nothing in my files that matches up with a known Boss Eliminator. Could have come out of a 351 Cougar though, but hard to say for sure.
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It does. 06846. That's all of it.
Having a second didgit of a "0" eliminates the possibility of it coming out of a Cougar or Mercury doesn't it Mike?
For a Mustang it would be 0xxxx106846 or 0xxxx206846 if it's out of a 70. Does it have a number on the bottom line of the transmission tag?
Sorry if your getting in the weeds in relationship to your original "whats it worth" question.
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Not at all. The number on the bottom of the RUG tag is 011212.
I would love to see the trans reunited with the car if it still exists.
Pete.
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Not at all. The number on the bottom of the RUG tag is 011212.
That only helps narrow down when the car it came from could have been built. Looking at my records I find a RUG-AW with a transmission serial number (011180) close to that was that build on Sept 25th with a vin of 0F1096xx. So 1300 units (transmissions built) after this example. Of course due to need transmissions were not installed or used in sequential order. Have one with a lower trans serial number (different application) installed months after this example but again it was a different application and not a AV.
No smoking gun but rather narrowing the range
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Having a second didgit of a "0" eliminates the possibility of it coming out of a Cougar or Mercury doesn't it Mike?
For a Mustang it would be 0xxxx106846 or 0xxxx206846 if it's out of a 70. Does it have a number on the bottom line of the transmission tag?
Sorry if your getting in the weeds in relationship to your original "whats it worth" question.
Nah, if it were from a Cougar / Mercury it could still have been something like 0xxxx506846. Would have had a Sept '69 build date.
Could always submit it to Marti for research, but
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So is a Wide Ratio’s 1st to 2nd closer together than the Close Ratio? And then the rest of the gears are wider apart than a Close Ratio?
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So is a Wide Ratio’s 1st to 2nd closer together than the Close Ratio?
Wide Ratio-
2.78 1st, 1.93 2nd, 1.36 3rd, 1.00 4th
Close Ratio-
2.32 1st, 1.67 2nd, 1.29 3rd, 1.00 4th
Your engine speed will drop less with a close ratio box on every shift. This helps keep the RPM's in the power band when shifting. Unfortunately, 1 st gear on a close ratio box isn't as low as a wide ratio box, so getting the car moving from a standing start is harder. You can make up for this by changing to a steeper rear gear but then your engine speeds on the highway are higher and you theoretical top speed will drop.
Modern cars remedy this situation with an extra overdrive gear ...
Since Boss 302's don't make a lot of torque at lower engine speeds, a wide ratio box makes them a whole lot nicer to drive, especially if your car was built with a 3.50 / 1 rear gear ...
Hope this helps, John
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Road race tangent moved to lounge:
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=19930.0