ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Processes, Products & Techniques => Topic started by: Oz390 on September 09, 2014, 07:54:36 AM
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You can re-back them with jute or even thin carpet padding contact cemented to the back (I guess you could even use burlap in a pinch). Trim it back from the edge a bit and no one will ever see it installed and it can help hold the frail OEM padding together.
I am tinkering with fixing one, but a Dearborn. As noted the spatter pattern makes it easier. Found a product called Shoe-Goo a black mastic that seems to be doing an OK job of patching cracks and piecing the torn pad back together. A spray of black Plasti-dip over the top and I'll see how the finish looks. It builds a little more than paint/dye, and if the color is not to my liking I'll look into to dye over the top. I doubt the patches will look factory if someone really sticks their head under the dash and looks, but as a lot of it is hard to see if the damage is not in an obvious place it may pass muster. At least its a OEM (finding an original here in Oz would be tough). To me more of an experiment to just try to fix it than make it 100% "correct".
On the deduction noted, one point for a repro, so what about a OEM that is repaired and may not look "perfect" but be solid and not show any major damage? If some split padding shows the patches on close inspection, same deduction?
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Any update on firewall repairs methods and results? I just cleaned mine up - pretty nice overall but a few things I would like to touch up before putting it in. Thanks.
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Any update on firewall repairs methods and results? I just cleaned mine up - pretty nice overall but a few things I would like to touch up before putting it in. Thanks.
You can glue and patch but returning the texture and pattern for a San Jose pad is very difficult and time consuming
Glue what rips you can and hopefully not disturb any of the "dots"
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Any update on firewall repairs methods and results? I just cleaned mine up - pretty nice overall but a few things I would like to touch up before putting it in. Thanks.
Mine was torn up around the column badly enough to not try and fix it. If I had another donor SJ pad, there might be some hope to glue in pieces and patch it back together. No decision has been made on what I will use at this time but if anybody has a damaged SJ pad that isn't hurt too bad around the column area, PM me and maybe there is hope.
Richard
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Last weekend I took on a firewall pad restoration project. Subject 1 is a San Jose pad that the mice had eaten large sections of but other wise was in good condition. I found a rough donor pad to replace the missing pieces. I cut the padding back about 1 1/2 inches from the cut on the face and used a spray adhesive on both pieces then I carefully aliened them. After it dried I carefully cleaned it with a spray window cleaner then scrubbed with a soft brush and blotted it dry with a towel. When it had completely dried I sealed the cut with some Evercoat undercoating with a artist brush.
When that was dry I treated the entire pad with Maguire's 40 to bring up the luster. It is not perfect but a lot better than a repop.
Subject 2 is a Dearborn pad that was badly cracked and dried out. I first cleaned it wit air and a soft brush. Then I used some contact cement on a brush to glue the cracks and separations. I then used a sponge brush to apply two coats of the Evercoat undercoating over the entire pad. It now is useable but is a bit too shiny. It may dull down in time.
Marty
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Marty ,I like what you accomplished . I wonder if one of the artist flattening spray clear might dull down the shine on the mat to a more desirable level.
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Last weekend I took on a firewall pad restoration project. Subject 1 is a San Jose pad that the mice had eaten large sections of but other wise was in good condition. I found a rough donor pad to replace the missing pieces. I cut the padding back about 1 1/2 inches from the cut on the face and used a spray adhesive on both pieces then I carefully aliened them. After it dried I carefully cleaned it with a spray window cleaner then scrubbed with a soft brush and blotted it dry with a towel. When it had completely dried I sealed the cut with some Evercoat undercoating with a artist brush.
When that was dry I treated the entire pad with Maguire's 40 to bring up the luster. It is not perfect but a lot better than a repop.
Subject 2 is a Dearborn pad that was badly cracked and dried out. I first cleaned it wit air and a soft brush. Then I used some contact cement on a brush to glue the cracks and separations. I then used a sponge brush to apply two coats of the Evercoat undercoating over the entire pad. It now is useable but is a bit too shiny. It may dull down in time.
Marty
Marty, would you have any remnants from a San Jose pad that I could possibly section out some of the dotted material from? After looking at my pad, I see only a few square inches of the textured material is gone, the backing I can figure something out with.
Richard
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Richard PM sent.
Marty
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I have been working tirelessly on repairing my original pad (previously pictured in earlier comment)
Today, I feel I have made marked progress on the section to the Left of the steering Column. I will be uploading more images of the other side as I get further along with those repairs. THIS particular task has not been very simple to do. It really is unfortunate that the aftermarkets fail so miserably.
What I have done so far is I have removed the outer "skin" of my San Jose firewall pad and I have also purchased a "cheapie" firewall pad to obtain a rough-cut of the jute backing to use. I used a vinyl repair adhesive by Permatex (#81786) and fiberglass cloth as reinforcement for the repairs. (one repair pictured below) Scraping down the "skin" without damaging it more is the hardest part of this process. I feel the mouse urine soaked jute backing was not what I wished to have inside of my restoration project yet I wanted an original-looking firewall pad. I suggest mechanics gloves and at least a dust mask! (nasty!)
I could use ideas on what to use to fill in the cracks or holes behind the washer pump. I have some ideas, but curious if others have things used proven good. For example, I sectioned in the V-shaped end under the steering column. I used some paintable undercoating on the visable seam but noticed it still a bit "tacky" to the touch several days later. It looks good though, but will it dry?
Here are the pictures of the LEFT section to illustrate the process I followed so far:
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Yes the brush able undercoating works well but does stay a bit tacky and is a bit shiny. A light mist of semi gloss clear lacquer will cure both problems.
It is looking good so far. These project take a lot of time and will keep you out of the bars or drive you there. ;D
Marty
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OK, a couple days ago while looking for the right stuff to fill cracks/blemishes in my attempts to restore my original pad, I made a discovery of sorts. My goal was to find a rubbery substance (like the previously mentioned "Shoe-Goo") that would bond to the rubber-like material that the "skin" of the San Jose pad is made from, something black, and something "dull", or not shiney... but thick enough to shape and use as a filler of sorts. Local hardware store was no help, I had tried the Evercoat idea but was not satisfied in the fact it remained "tacky" to the touch even days later.
The idea of the right stuff to use came to me when I asked that very question. "What is the right stuff? The answer: "The Right Stuff"!!! I'll post more images when I finish the job. In the image below, can you spot where I sectioned in a 6 inch long area a couple inches each side of the "knock-out" for the AC evaporator drain hose? (section I used was out of a '68 SJ without AC). It is IMHO, very difficult to see! (well pleased) What do you all think?
Now, to finish the job, I could use some more images of the visable area of a 67 San Jose pad, preferably of pictures of pads for SJ '67 cars with AC but I'll look at any 67-68 SJ cars, with or without AC. Pictures of the steering column area in particular would be great. That area was missing on my car and I spliced in another piece there. I am trying to see where any of the edges were covered with the black rubbery surface and what edges were simply the bare die-cut "Jute". I noticed that the '68 SJ pad that Marty worked on (previously pictured in this thread) was slightly different than my '67.
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I think you have found a suitable product for the pad repair! How is it once it dries? Is it tacky like Evercoat?
You might want to add an arrow to your picture to show where you made the repair. :)
Regards,
Pete Morgan
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I think you have found a suitable product for the pad repair! How is it once it dries? Is it tacky like Evercoat?
No, it is firm and shapable, not tacky when cured overnight. I used a single edge razor blade as a putty knife to press it in, once it gets tacky (5-10 minutes) I use a red shop rag to texture the slight semi-gloss down a bit and let it dry. Fills cracks very well this way. When extensive repairs are needed to be done, and I had a few, it might take a few fills with it to get it right. For example, there is a round hole where the gas pedal passes through the pad. I made a patch right through the middle of the hole because that area was totally missing on my original pad. I used the fiberglass cloth and clear vinyl adhesive last week to section in the missing "skin". After the new jute backing was glued in place, the hole was oblonged and jagged in spots. I have spread this "Right Stuff" directly onto the jute within the sides of the opening (somewhat like it was originally in some areas) Once it cured overnight, I used a slightly worn down cut-off wheel (a little smaller than what the hole ought to be) on a rotary grinder, I was able to grind the hole perfectly round and then added another layer of "The Stuff". Like frosting a cake, you just need patience and practice. I practiced in areas NOT SEEN first to get the hang of it.
You might want to add an arrow to your picture to show where you made the repair. :)
I'm not sure how to do that, I've never tried before. I would say if I have to TELL YOU WHERE I sectioned it in, it passes muster. I replaced the whole piece that measures roughly 6 inches long by 3-1/3" wide, the whole section just in front of the can pictured in my previous post. Below is a cropped, close up picture of the complete "sectioned in" repair. The right side of the screen, you should see a trace visable of the seam running vertically, top to bottom of the screenshot. The LEFT seam is diagonal, towards the top left of the screen and runs from the center transmission tunnel hump diagonally to the opening where the can was pictured before in my previous image. Best I can do to show and tell.
Richard
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I just realized I never uploaded my FINISHED San Jose Firewall Pad! Sorry, I thought I had! I did this months ago now.
Helps to have a BEFORE/AFTER set! To summarize, First, Using a very soft bristle brush, (I used one from a vacuum cleaner attachment) I scrubbed the hell out of this thing! Wash, dry, repeat till it looks clean. (then let dry completely in the sun) I then very carefully "skinned" the old facing from the rodent urine-soaked jute backing. (gloves and a mask) Take your time, this "skin" tears very easily, you can make more work if you hurry. I repaired all of the tears and rips with the fiberglass mesh and adhesive. This seemed to take forever because I would fix ONE place and wait 1 day to move on. I sectioned in any missing areas with a donor San Jose pad, making every attempt to align the pattern wherever possible. I then bought a reproduction "cheapie" pad from either NPD or Virginia Classic (I could look into that and edit~ not sure it matters) and also skinned the rubber facing from the new pad. The jute fit really good from the section to the LEFT of the steering column with minimal effort. The section on the other side failed miserably. I needed to stretch it to fit the contours of the cowl panel and yet reach all the way across. Then, while holding the jute against the firewall, slowly 3M spray adhesive the jute and repaired "skin" together, all the while forcing as much contour into the new jute. (very tricky~ helps that the car is on a rotisserie and I stood the car on it's drivers side) After the old skin was glued to the new jute, I had some filler work on the jute to fill in where it came up short in spots. That is when I was able to see it beginning to take shape.
Some other pointers:
1.) I used long lag screws coming from the engine bay through the firewall where the fuse panel screwed in to keep that aligned before gluing the two halves together.
2.) Similarly, for the factory holes where the push-pins hold the firewall pad in, I used inch and a half by 1/4" bolts with nuts on them, tightened in before hanging the jute and before gluing the halves together, this kept the holes lined up as I moved along.
3.) As I said, I worked SLOWLY to bring the skin to the jute. After an initial test fit DRY (no glue) I glued ONLY THE AREA BEHIND THE FUSE PANEL AREA FIRST, leaving the rest seperated (unglued) and took the partially glued section inside of the car (still on the rotisserie) and hung it on all of those screws and bolts.I began by spraying both sides (backside of skin, face of jute) with the 3M spray adhesive. Once I felt it looked like it would take shape, I seperated the skin down, leaving the jute hanging from the screws and bolts and going about 6 inches at a time till I got to where the heater hoses went through. At that point, I just shot the glue the rest of the way and went for broke.
4.) Once the glue had set up a day, I cleaned the now refurbished old skin surface one last time. (toothbrush & mild soap, blotting with a rag) and let dry in the sun.
5.) NOW is when I began using the "Right Stuff" to fill cracks and remaining "issues"
6.) NOTHING was used afterwards, the "satin-shine look" is natural after the extensive cleaning along the way
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I finally got the firewall pad out of my 67 SJ parts car.
However, this pad has much less detail in the area that I think judges look (under the heater).
One might think that perhaps someone messed with it, but this thing also shows signs of imperfect molding elsewhere.
The bottom has very few dots and some areas show a spider web effect where much less product was used. See the area straight up (3" actual) from the firewall pin hole.
At this point I'm tempted to create a large mold (cut the firewall out of the parts car to start) and repop this thing.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/9/4249-110218141950.jpeg)
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I've been working off and on on my pad between other things. I've never seen anyone post the back side of the fix, so I thought I'd remedy that now.
To do an area as large as in the pic, you need to remove the jute backing and use a small wire brush (toothbrush size) to really remove the jute in the areas to be fixed.
To put together sections of the outer skin I use black super weather strip. I hold the sections together using either blue tape or gaffers tape. This allows me to line up the front and then flip over the pad to reinforce and fill the back. Using a bean bag works to hold the sections in their proper hi/lo orientation.
I tried the Right Stuff and don't care for it. It does not spread well and is too inflexible when it dries. A sample is at the top left of this pic.
I also tried regular Automotive Goop and found it unsatisfactory. It took too long to dry (if I remember right).
The spray on rubber coatings took forever to dry and required many, many coats. The less shiny areas in the pic are using the rubber aerosols. There are at least half a dozen coats on those samples.
So then I tried Shoe Goo and this stuff is great. It dries very quickly, self levels as it dries, can be re-coated a few times per day and works great with the fiberglass mesh used for drywall repairs. See the shiny areas in the pic. That's just one coat of Goo, compared to over half a dozen of the spray rubber.
Attached is the very damaged area behind the floor wiper/squirters on my 67. I'll show the front when I'm done with it.
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Separated out a number of posts to another thread in hopes to focus just on repairs, attempts, failures and products tried by members
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I tried the Right Stuff and don't care for it. It does not spread well and is too inflexible when it dries. A sample is at the top left of this pic.
The use of "The Right Stuff" was used as a surface-filler, not as an adhesive for repairing the rips or tears. The "Right Stuff" was used AFTER all of the tears were completed and AFTER the outer skin was adhered to the NEW jute backing.
I used fiberglass mesh, as you did for repairing the rips and tears, but I used a Permatex Vinyl Adhesive (#81786 clear) for the adhesive. It was messy and a little stiff when dried but worked fast enough to do one rip or tear at a time.
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... . The "Right Stuff" was used AFTER all of the tears were completed and AFTER the outer skin was adhered to the NEW jute backing.
Ah, gotcha.
I'm leaving all of the jute on, where I can, and using an industrial strength deodorizer with enzyme to remove any smells.
This is really tedious so I try to do small stints of it instead of watching paint dry. I prefer the later.
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...I've never seen anyone post the back side of the fix, so I thought I'd remedy that now.
To do an area as large as in the pic, you need to remove the jute backing and use a small wire brush (toothbrush size) to really remove the jute in the areas to be fixed.
To put together sections of the outer skin I use black super weather strip. I hold the sections together using either blue tape or gaffers tape. This allows me to line up the front and then flip over the pad to reinforce and fill the back. Using a bean bag works to hold the sections in their proper hi/lo orientation.
I tried the Right Stuff and don't care for it. It does not spread well and is too inflexible when it dries. A sample is at the top left of this pic.
I also tried regular Automotive Goop and found it unsatisfactory. It took too long to dry (if I remember right).
The spray on rubber coatings took forever to dry and required many, many coats. The less shiny areas in the pic are using the rubber aerosols. There are at least half a dozen coats on those samples.
So then I tried Shoe Goo and this stuff is great. It dries very quickly, self levels as it dries, can be re-coated a few times per day and works great with the fiberglass mesh used for drywall repairs. See the shiny areas in the pic. That's just one coat of Goo, compared to over half a dozen of the spray rubber.
Attached is the very damaged area behind the floor wiper/squirters on my 67. I'll show the front when I'm done with it.
These sorts of issues have already been addressed in this thread (see images, they are re-posted again here)> I imagine there are OTHER sorts of adhesives that can IMPROVE results and time spent to achieve satisfactory results. For example, If I were to do this again, I would have purchased a "better" reproduction pad to crop the Jute from, one that is pre-formed to the shape of the firewall since this was a real hassle to stretch the "flat" version that I used. You may notice a little deformed shape behind the heater/AC unit in my final results. (My AC unit will hide this very well so I am satisfied anyways).
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Ok, I finally got on board with using the Right Stuff the right way on the front and agree that it works really well in that location. Even the color is spot on.
I also found that using a dremel with a small pinpoint wire brush removes irregularities and goop that has made its way to front before the Right Stuff application.
My pad is bad enough in areas that I'm on Shoe Goop tube #2.
Getting there. Thanks Richard.
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Has anyone tried Flex Seal liquid rubber
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Has anyone tried Flex Seal liquid rubber
Not I - wonder how different it is from spray Tool Dip Might have to add some surface texture to it in the final coat
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Not I - wonder how different it is from spray Tool Dip Might have to add some surface texture to it in the final coat
It sprays out the same as the tool dip spray can. Yes you have to apply it over the texture you want because it has none. Just a new name and more hype. IMO.
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It sprays out the same as the tool dip spray can. Yes you have to apply it over the texture you want because it has none. Just a new name and more hype. IMO.
Would be great if there was a way to add the waffle pattern if you could lay down a non stick texture mold that could be removed after the rubber is dry with no adhesion. I wonder if something like pam or another product would allow that. Perhaps a large stamp that could be applied in the final drying stages
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My secret formula for mold release is 4 parts isopropal alcohol (min 91%) and 1 part caster oil.
The alcohol only makes the caster oil thinner and easily spreadable/sprayable.
Caster oil is fairly benign and comes off with 100% alcohol.
The best way to make the mold is to first hack a complete firewall out of a parts car to get all of hills and valleys right.
I have the parts car, but the desire anymore is weak.
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My secret formula for mold release is 4 parts isopropal alcohol (min 91%) and 1 part caster oil.
The alcohol only makes the caster oil thinner and easily spreadable/sprayable.
Caster oil is fairly benign and comes off with 100% alcohol.
The best way to make the mold is to first hack a complete firewall out of a parts car to get all of hills and valleys right.
I have the parts car, but the desire anymore is weak.
Wow! I never imagined when I got into this that the firewall pad would be such an issue, otherwise I would have tried to save mine. Such are the unfortunate novice mistakes we make when we don't know better and don't ask the questions before the fact
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When I disassembled the Shelby -- years ago -- I threw out my insulation pad. Mice also got into my dash pad so instead of fixing that issue, I threw it and a spare away.
I bought a parts car last year just to get those two parts.
My other option was to buy a driver or better car, take out the original pieces and replace them with repops, afterwards selling that car.
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When I disassembled the Shelby -- years ago -- I threw out my insulation pad. Mice also got into my dash pad so instead of fixing that issue, I threw it and a spare away.
I bought a parts car last year just to get those two parts.
My other option was to buy a driver or better car, take out the original pieces and replace them with repops, afterwards selling that car.
Haha yes my car was a mouse hotel as well when it sat in a barn for all those years. When I stripped the dash out there were mouse dropping everywhere. I wonder what is the chance of actually finding a used firewall pad in good shape or would I have better luck just buying a lottery ticket and then buying a perfect car lol
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With the help of everyone here, especially Richard, I have finally finished my pad.
This thing was done in small spurts as I passed by it, glued up another small section, went on to other less disgusting stuff while each small section dried.
Lots of patience is required.
Time to store it and move onto other fun things.
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It looks nice. It always feels good to have victory over one of those tough problems.