ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1968 Mustang => Topic started by: bullitt68 on September 25, 2019, 01:21:26 AM
-
Just checking to confirm if these rivets look original. One looks older and one look fresher. Not sure what the originals should look like, but thought I should ask before assuming. FYI I am thinking of doing some media blasting and will not remove the vin if it looks like the rivets are original. If they are original I will tape it up well.
Thanks
-
Just checking to confirm if these rivets look original. One looks older and one look fresher. Not sure what the originals should look like, but thought I should ask before assuming. FYI I am thinking of doing some media blasting and will not remove the vin if it looks like the rivets are original. If they are original I will tape it up well.
Thanks
The rivets holding the vin tag on were nothing special. Yes in your case one seems to have a different patina then the other. Take them off or leave them on. I personally would not want to run the risk of the vin tag getting damaged . Since you can't tell the different once reinstalled you are not losing anything by removing and re installing. In your case at least two different ones will most likely match each other better. Some people are funny about drilling out those common pop rivets as if it is desecrating the car in some way. To each their own. Regardless you have a choice.
-
The rivets holding the vin tag on were nothing special. Yes in your case one seems to have a different patina then the other. Take them off or leave them on. I personally would not want to run the risk of the vin tag getting damaged . Since you can't tell the different once reinstalled you are not losing anything by removing and re installing. In your case at least two different ones will most likely match each other better. Some people are funny about drilling out those common pop rivets as if it is desecrating the car in some way. To each their own. Regardless you have a choice.
Great thanks Bob. I think I will remove it then and re rivet it back on as I would hate for it to get damaged in any way. They do look like generic rivets and one does appear to be newer than the other one. VIN matches all of the other vins on the car and the driveline as well
-
Here is another example fairly close to your cars period
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/12/6-250919135651.jpeg)
Somewhat related thread with a couple of additional pictures
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=9048.msg52986#msg52986 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=9048.msg52986#msg52986)
-
Here is another example fairly close to your cars period
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/12/6-250919135651.jpeg)
Somewhat related thread with a couple of additional pictures
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=9048.msg52986#msg52986 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=9048.msg52986#msg52986)
Thanks Jeff looks the same as mine except one of mine is very shinny. Do you have any reason to believe that mine could have been replaced
-
Thanks Jeff looks the same as mine except one of mine is very shinny. Do you have any reason to believe that mine could have been replaced
From the picture posted I can't see anything that suggests that one or both have been replaced. Sure if you took some cleaner to the duller one it would brighten up also. Notice in the picture above I posted both have a different tone. Lots of stuff can collect under the dash pad over the year and only affect one or both
All depends :)
-
From the picture posted I can't see anything that suggests that one or both have been replaced. Sure if you took some cleaner to the duller one it would brighten up also. Notice in the picture above I posted both have a different tone. Lots of stuff can collect under the dash pad over the year and only affect one or both
All depends :)
So with that said should I keep th rivets intact and cover the tag during media blasting. I will do the same thing with the door tag as the rivets look real original to me
-
So with that said should I keep th rivets intact and cover the tag during media blasting. I will do the same thing with the door tag as the rivets look real original to me
I take the door tags off. No way to repaint and restore the car well IMHO with it in place. Not worth the effort or the results to try to leave it in place and reproduction rivets are easy to get and use.
Even leaving the other brings with it risks i the car is being blasted in any way. Way too many stories ::)
-
I take the door tags off. No way to repaint and restore the car well IMHO with it in place. Not worth the effort or the results to try to leave it in place and reproduction rivets are easy to get and use.
Even leaving the other brings with it risks i the car is being blasted in any way. Way too many stories ::)
Ok great thanks Jeff. I will remove the tags and replace the rivets. Just wanted to be sure that it is an acceptable practice. Ion some cars I have done, messing with Tags & rivets is a no no
-
It is interesting that Dearborn cars in '68 used screws while San Jose used pop rivets on the dash VIN tag. Another way to tell if the car is real or not.
-
It is interesting that Dearborn cars in '68 used screws while San Jose used pop rivets on the dash VIN tag. Another way to tell if the car is real or not.
Believe you will find that just a few used screws (have plenty of pictures of them with rivets).
Not sure if anyone has charted the use of screws yet by VIN and real build date - might just be a failed tool like the stapler and the radiator seal (staples verses clips) that has been documented at Dearborn in 69 production
Of course both are better discussed further in another or existing threads
-
I take the door tags off. No way to repaint and restore the car well IMHO with it in place. Not worth the effort or the results to try to leave it in place and reproduction rivets are easy to get and use.
Even leaving the other brings with it risks i the car is being blasted in any way. Way too many stories ::)
Hi Jeff where can I get the original looking rivets for the door and the dash. I would like to order some up soon. I have searched around a bit with no luck and obviously I would like to get rivets threat looks as factory original as possible, even thought the rivets on my dash looked fairly generic
Thanks
-
Try AMK Products https://www.amkproducts.com/ Ford p/n 354921-S.
Jim
-
Try AMK Products https://www.amkproducts.com/ Ford p/n 354921-S.
Jim
Thank Jim
-
Thank Jim
They have the Data plate rivets (Door Tag) Could not find the dash VIN rivets
-
See reply #1 - dash rivets are "nothing special". Go to your favorite hardware store to buy pop rivets.
-
Make sure that you use the same rivets , steel or aluminum , as the originals.
-
See reply #1 - dash rivets are "nothing special". Go to your favorite hardware store to buy pop rivets.
Thanks John. I believe that are called blind rivets. I will just use the right size and I should be good to go
-
Make sure that you use the same rivets , steel or aluminum , as the originals.
What did the factory use. Mine looked very generic and I noticed that you can order the door tag style through AMK aka Data Plate rivets
-
What did the factory use. Mine looked very generic and I noticed that you can order the door tag style through AMK aka Data Plate rivets
I believe it was a steel pop rivet for the windshield tag. Of course the door data plate rivets are a different style compared to the pop rivets used for the windshield tag .
-
What did the factory use. Mine looked very generic and I noticed that you can order the door tag style through AMK aka Data Plate rivets
First your not suppose to remove the tag nor alter the attaching hardware.
As for what the rivets are made of test them first with a magnet. Think they might be steel but don't have pictures nor recall seeing rusty ones.
The ones used for your year and plant appear to be standard rivets like what you can find at the local hardware store
-
First your not suppose to remove the tag nor alter the attaching hardware.
As for what the rivets are made of test them first with a magnet. Think they might be steel but don't have pictures nor recall seeing rusty ones.
The ones used for your year and plant appear to be standard rivets like what you can find at the local hardware store
Well thats a bummer! That is what I checked here first before I removed the VIN, otherwise I would not have removed it! See below
Quote from: bullitt68 on September 25, 2019, 01:21:26 AM
Just checking to confirm if these rivets look original. One looks older and one look fresher. Not sure what the originals should look like, but thought I should ask before assuming. FYI I am thinking of doing some media blasting and will not remove the vin if it looks like the rivets are original. If they are original I will tape it up well.
Thanks
The rivets holding the vin tag on were nothing special. Yes in your case one seems to have a different patina then the other. Take them off or leave them on. I personally would not want to run the risk of the vin tag getting damaged . Since you can't tell the different once reinstalled you are not losing anything by removing and re installing. In your case at least two different ones will most likely match each other better. Some people are funny about drilling out those common pop rivets as if it is desecrating the car in some way. To each their own. Regardless you have a choice.
-
"The rivets holding the vin tag on were nothing special. "
+1, the rivits weren't special until 70 when they went to the "rosette" rivits. I'm pretty sure that Federally, you're allowed to remove and replace the VIN tag on the same car during restoration. Some states have tougher regulations …..
-
"The rivets holding the vin tag on were nothing special. "
+1, the rivits weren't special until 70 when they went to the "rosette" rivits. I'm pretty sure that Federally, you're allowed to remove and replace the VIN tag on the same car during restoration. Some states have tougher regulations …..
Thanks. Obviously it is too late for me now, but I am in Canada and not sure what the regulations are. Normally I never remove the VIN Tag during restoration, but the advice I was given appeared like removing it was common or an accepted practice so I proceeded. The VIN was only off the car for a brief period of time, not that it matters, but since it has the generic style rivets guess it is pretty hard to tell if it has been removed from the car
-
"The rivets holding the vin tag on were nothing special. "
+1, the rivits weren't special until 70 when they went to the "rosette" rivits. I'm pretty sure that Federally, you're allowed to remove and replace the VIN tag on the same car during restoration. Some states have tougher regulations …..
The "nothing special" was a comment I believe that was specific to the plant and year being discussed not a blanket statement covering all applications or at least that is what I meant.
Have examples of the rosette on many cars built prior to 70. Just so others will not make the wrong choice if they have to reattach their VIN plate. And Federally I can't see any provision that would apply to being OK for restoration purposes currently and in the past they simple published that no detachment was allowed. Not going provide a public list of which years and plants used this or that promised my dad that I would not use his data (what he left and taught me) in that way nor is it a good idea in general
-
"Federally I can't see any provision that would apply to being OK for restoration purposes currently and in the past they simple published that no detachment was allowed."
Subsection B, Paragraph 2, part B and D of section 511 should keep you out of jail if you remove the VIN in an honest repair setting.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/511
Where you may get crossed up is how your state views a vehicle once the VIN has been removed and reinstalled …….
-
"Federally I can't see any provision that would apply to being OK for restoration purposes currently and in the past they simple published that no detachment was allowed."
Subsection B, Paragraph 2, part B and D of section 511 should keep you out of jail if you remove the VIN in an honest repair setting.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/511
Where you may get crossed up is how your state views a vehicle once the VIN has been removed and reinstalled …….
Not certain I would want to hang my hat on "should's" What I've seen happen in a number of states is the agencies impounding the vehicle than its up to the "owner" to prove that the car is the car (VIN) that the owner claims. In many of the cases I've been involved with the state often chooses the safe path and destroys the factory VIN and assigns a new one
We're sort of getting a bit off thread bit and discussions always seem to water down to each persons level of comfort and exposure. As most of us are aware - law and rules are not really facts until they are tested and decided to in a court and even then its not always finished. This subject (to remove and replace) is often discussed in relationship with replacing or remaking stamped VIN's in a unibody.
-
Not certain I would want to hang my hat on "should's" What I've seen happen in a number of states is the agencies impounding the vehicle than its up to the "owner" to prove that the car is the car (VIN) that the owner claims. In many of the cases I've been involved with the state often chooses the safe path and destroys the factory VIN and assigns a new one
The best answer is to don't mention this little "cleanup" to anyone in authority (read bureaucracy). I've been stopped by "the law" for the infamous "no shoulder harness" in a 66, "no backup lights" in a 65 and "no smog equipment" in a 64. The street cop don't know, the registration people don't care.
Jim