ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Drivetrain => Topic started by: RoyceP on December 04, 2019, 04:38:10 PM
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I am starting this thread to see if anyone has an original one to use as an example so that reproductions can be made properly. Currently the vendors all sell a version of this sticker that has an "L" for the plant code, ie Lima Ohio. So far as I have been able to determine all 428 CJ engine assemblies were built at Dearborn Engine Plant, which would mean the ID sticker should have a "D".
I think if the sticker was on a 289, 302, or even a 390 from 1968 - 70 it would have a similar "D" if the engine was assembled at DEP.
Here's the reproduction 407J sticker:
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No 289 or 302s from Dearborn Engine Plant (DEP). From the late 50’s through late 70’s they only made the FE engines. If I recall correctly that was an exclusive thing. My grandfather was a manager there from 41-44 in the strategic air command group making Pratt & Whitney engines.
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Much appreciated. Wish I could see what a sticker looks like from any DEP engine of any displacement.
No 289 or 302s from Dearborn Engine Plant (DEP). From the late 50’s through late 70’s they only made the FE engines. If I recall correctly that was an exclusive thing. My grandfather was a manager there from 41-44 in the strategic air command group making Pratt & Whitney engines.
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The original engine tag was on my car and in around 1997 it was ready to fall off so I put it in a bag-I have it somewhere. As I recall the engine code you could still see but not much else.
The original metal engine tags do not id the plant on either my Windsor sm block or FE.
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Would love to see it if you still have it.
The original engine tag was on my car and in around 1997 it was ready to fall off so I put it in a bag-I have it somewhere. As I recall the engine code you could still see but not much else.
The original metal engine tags do not id the plant on either my Windsor sm block or FE.
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The original engine tag was on my car and in around 1997 it was ready to fall off so I put it in a bag-I have it somewhere. As I recall the engine code you could still see but not much else.
The original metal engine tags do not id the plant on either my Windsor sm block or FE.
I have an original metal tag on my 70 351C that has a C on the first line. None of my 428CJs have a plant code on the metal tag. I wonder what Marti would do on a repo tag for an FE.
Marcus's 428 detailing guide shows several paper tags with the D
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I have both original engine tags and repro engine tags from 427 and 428CJ engines. None have a plant code.
I made this today, maybe if I get the edges cut like the ones in Marcus' pictures it will look right?
I have an original metal tag on my 70 351C that has a C on the first line. None of my 428CJs have a plant code on the metal tag. I wonder what Marti would do on a repo tag for an FE.
Marcus's 428 detailing guide shows several paper tags with the D
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I have both original engine tags and repro engine tags from 427 and 428CJ engines. None have a plant code.
I made this today, maybe if I get the edges cut like the ones in Marcus' pictures it will look right?
That's cool! I'm going to need a 424 A for my '70 SCJ.
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I have both original engine tags and repro engine tags from 427 and 428CJ engines. None have a plant code.
I made this today, maybe if I get the edges cut like the ones in Marcus' pictures it will look right?
Some fine pinking shears and it will look great!
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My thoughts exactly. Will try Michaels and Hobby Lobby to see what they have.
Some fine pinking shears and it will look great!
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I assume the timing on the paper decal should match the initial timing spec on the emissions sticker for any engine.
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It certainly does!
I assume the timing on the paper decal should match the initial timing spec on the emissions sticker for any engine.
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The teethed edges of engine tag was from a roll torn off like a tape holder with the metal teeth blade so just find an old tape dispenser. I still haven't found my original cj take off tag and ECS may have it yet as he made tags and decals from my originals. I remember discussing the id #s on the engine tags years ago when we were making these but don't remember what we decided on this and dave walden owner of ECS sadly passed away last july .
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If the label is wide it's hard to find a tape dispenser that wide.
Instead raid the kitchen and find a rolled aluminum foil dispenser.
Those teeth look and work pretty good and are over 12" long. You could just steal the metal strip and mount (staple) it on a piece of plywood for garage use.
If you want a hand held version look for scrapbook pinking scissors.
The scrapbookers love weird edges.
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If the label is wide it's hard to find a tape dispenser that wide.
I've used a package tape dispenser most of the time as shown in the thread about reproducing these stickers here on the site. Before that saw blades.
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Sorry about being late to the dance but I have long suspected that the L on the reproduction engine tags was incorrect. Lima plant as far as I know started producing the 385 series motors in 68 and never produced the FE motors. Although I have seen many 68FE remnants of paper tags none have ever been legible in that area. I do have this off of 69 and clearly you can see the D in the corner on the CJ engine
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0U9v3I5_Xw6xvS8MjepkfKC8Q
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Sorry about being late to the dance but I have long suspected that the L on the reproduction engine tags was incorrect. Lima plant as far as I know started producing the 385 series motors in 68 and never produced the FE motors. Although I have seen many 68FE remnants of paper tags none have ever been legible in that area. I do have this off of 69 and clearly you can see the D in the corner on the CJ engine
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0U9v3I5_Xw6xvS8MjepkfKC8Q
Looks like 420T.
Would have been nice to know what all the suffixes means.
Do know that there are differences between auto/4 speed with and without AC, but think there is more than that!?
Suffixes and codes from the 428 CJ/SCJ here; https://www.428cobrajet.org/id-engine-codes
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I used your idea.
I've used a package tape dispenser most of the time as shown in the thread about reproducing these stickers here on the site. Before that saw blades.
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Sorry about being late to the dance but I have long suspected that the L on the reproduction engine tags was incorrect. Lima plant as far as I know started producing the 385 series motors in 68 and never produced the FE motors. Although I have seen many 68FE remnants of paper tags none have ever been legible in that area. I do have this off of 69 and clearly you can see the D in the corner on the CJ engine
Think I've got pictures and captions of the Lima plant from the 50's building at least 6 cylinder engines have to revisit
Can't get your picture link to work. If you want send it to me again email and I'll post it if you like. Would like to see since I've not been able to find a paper tag with a D
Looks like 420T.
Would have been nice to know what all the suffixes means.
Do know that there are differences between auto/4 speed with and without AC, but think there is more than that!?
Yes different coding for different engines since they were assembled differently at the engine plant. You would need to focus (would make the task easier) on a particular year and engine type. Some years you would have auto and manual, with Thermactor, with IMCO, ...........
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Here is Tim's picture. It set off the virus software on my computer so I had to use my phone to save it first.
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Looks like 420T.
Would have been nice to know what all the suffixes means.
Do know that there are differences between auto/4 speed with and without AC, but think there is more than that!?
Suffixes and codes from the 428 CJ/SCJ here; https://www.428cobrajet.org/id-engine-codes
The suffixes and prefixes are explained in Marti's tag book. The suffix refers to the change level and what it starts off as is a function of the model year. For 69 it starts as S and in 70 it starts as A.
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I recently found my dearborn 420t cj paper tag and sent info to cindy walden (dave wife) as she and her sons are running ECS and they are going to make the tag with the D like it should be. I think dave thought all big blocks were built in Lima after looking at boss 429 tags that are more visable. The lima ohio plant built all 429 types of engine but not FEs.
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About damn time.
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Thanks for making the effort Ed
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Yes i had talked to dave years ago about changing fe tags from L to D but he already had a bunch made up and was going to get it done then he started having health problems. Not enought fe guys seem to care about having this tag corrected since its hidden behind smog pump unlike b2 and b9s and other size engines where u see the whole tag.
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Last year I was trying to get them to make the tags properly and I got a lot of pushback from them. A truly embarrassing (for them) set of emails.
Yes i had talked to dave years ago about changing fe tags from L to D but he already had a bunch made up and was going to get it done then he started having health problems. Not enought fe guys seem to care about having this tag corrected since its hidden behind smog pump unlike b2 and b9s and other size engines where u see the whole tag.