ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1970 Boss => Topic started by: Bossbill on March 30, 2020, 04:33:50 PM
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I'm converting my 70 B2 to P/S.
Blame all those years of wrenching and house remodeling.
Plus, parallel parking this thing is like parking a 1952 F1 pickup with a full load. It doesn't help that I have some "interesting" alignment specs to add positive caster and negative camber.
I may come back to this thread from time-to-time as I collect all the parts.
I should have done this back when people were removing P/S setups and selling them for $300.
As I go along I'll share all of the part numbers which may help other people as they are locating parts for their stock setup.
Let's move on.
I have the D0ZE-6312-A two sheave crankshaft pulley.
In order to fit P/S I need the three sheave pulley D0ZE-6312-B.
Considering my car's build date of 6/6/70 it appears I may have the wrong pulley in the first place. From the Boss302 website:
"The two sheave -A pulley fits the BOSS 302 w/o power steering. This was used primarily on cars built before late December, early January 1970. Around that time the power steering and non power steering cars started sharing the three sheave pulley D0ZE-6312-B."
So, I may have an early pulley on a late car?
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I have a three sheave pulley and the bracket that mounts the power steering pump to the water pump.
Email me if interested.
Doug
csx4068@gmail.com
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Here is a couple of examples of 70 Boss 302 with PS using the three sleeve crank pulleys. Partial VINs listed with each
0F02G1427xx
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-010420191615.jpeg)
0F02G1691xx
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-010420191736.jpeg)
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Thanks Jeff.
On the manual steering cars the two sheave crank pulley pattern is (inner to outer):
Smog Pump
No pulley -- just blank
Alternator
By fitting a C90E-8509-G water pump pulley an additional sheave has been added to line up with a new middle sheave on the crank pulley.
The three sheave crank pulley pattern is (inner to outer):
Smog Pump
P/S
Alternator
By adding the center sheave on the crank and a water pump pulley with an additional sheave the power steering belt can use that newly added location. The alternator still runs on the outside sheave, but no longer routes around the w/p pulley.
Because the 3 sheave crank pulley just adds one sheave between the other two, Ford thought maybe they could simplify things by making the 3 sheave standard on all B2s starting in January.
There would be an empty space for the early 2 sheave manual steering cars and an unused middle shave on the later manual steering cars. See pic of a 2 sheave.
The issue is if and when this occurred.
Are there enough running changes on B2s to warrant a thread for that?
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Are there enough running changes on B2s to warrant a thread for that?
IMHO not at this time. Bigger needs and not many have come up for just Boss 302 details yet
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I just bought a Boss/351C power steering pump bracket from WCCC for the Boss. Nice piece, guys.
I also have the 351W/302 bracket.
The 351/302 bracket has a smaller back U-hole than the Boss/351C bracket.
The Boss HBA-CC pump has a larger pump outlet, I gather? That much bigger?
And no, I don't currently have the correct pump with which to compare.
See pic with larger U-hole on bottom bracket with tag.
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The Boss HBA-CC pump has a larger pump outlet, I gather? That much bigger?
And no, I don't currently have the correct pump with which to compare.
See pic with larger U-hole on bottom bracket with tag.
Bill
Yes, you are correct in that the outlet fitting is larger. Obviously the pressure hose that connects to the fitting must also be compatible with the larger outlet.
You may have trouble finding the correct CC pump. I assume you could use a 302/351 pump with the appropriate bracket and hose. The return tube on the pump may need to be changed to fit the BOSS configuration with a fluid cooler.
The BOSS 302 pulley is also larger than the standard one.
Doug
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Yes, 1970 pumps have a larger outlet fitting and it is offset from center. Easy to spot.
FYI you cannot use a 351W/302 front adjusting bracket. It needs to be the 351C bracket, at least three different versions, the correct one is marked D0ZA-3C511-A.
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Thanks for the crank pulley and bracket, Doug.
Scott mentioned that the offset outlet is easy to spot. Well, it is after you see it!
Got a PM from another member who offered a nice pic of the rear. Thanks Craig.
I also noticed on the Boss site and from Craig's pic that the "can" has a peculiar return line on the bottom that routes a hard line to the passenger side.
Using that information I searched around for a 70 can and actually found a rebuilt complete unit on ebay, pump and can! I'd tell you what I paid, but you'd hate me.
Attached find a pic of the can and pump for a 70 Mustang application.
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I was looking into whether the power steering pump hose index bracket (3C510) was used on the 70 Boss.
Turns out that 3C510 is used as a number for both the hose index bracket and the metal support bracket under the car that holds the hoses!
Moving on. According to the MPC section 36.4 (70/71 Fairlane, Torino and 70 Falcon and Mustang) for 302 and 351 applications, the Boss does NOT use a hose index bracket.
Pic 1 shows a standard Mustang with the hose support 3C510 shown.
Pic 2 is a blowup of sub section D of the illustration page showing the back of a B2 pump without the 3C510. Can you'all verify?
Edit to add pic 1.
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Haven't found any further info on the rear index bracket. It probably didn't need one for this oddball configuration.
I did find an offset pump and can and while the pump was ok, the can did not have the rib around the front. Why do they make these new and almost correct but forget the rib?
WCCCougars to the rescue as they sold me a pump can, the correct -CC tin label and the hose retainer under the suspension (with the twin rubbers to hold the hoses).
A pic of this really nicely colored can attached along with its original runs on the bottom.
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Finally found the 69 Big Suspension and 70 Mustang/Cougar power steering drag link.
These have a weird shape at the idler and a hump on the thread side.
See: https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/d0zz-3304-b.html?sessionthemeid=26
I may use my existing tie rods (depends on condition) and I have a complete 68 ram and control valve assembly I can use after a rebuild. A few nuts and bolts and some hoses and Bob's your uncle.
Still looking to trade my original, very nice 428CJ/B9 power steering cooler for a B2 cooler. See trade listing.
On edit -- I did look into pitman arms and idler arms and find that the idler arm is the same 67-70 on p/s cars. Same with the pitman, however the steering sector shafts can be either 1 or 1 1/8". As noted, I do have a 68 system (2 in fact) and other divorced boxes laying about, so I'm sure I can find the required parts in house.
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Hello Bill, This is Greg Springer in Burien up the street from you I'm converting my 70 Boss to power steering to cuz I'm getting older also, and I've been acquiring all the parts I thank you for all your research and information and I've pretty much got everything now finding the CC pump was the toughest but the after talking to Dan at clockostang he said that the CC pump does require that 510 bracket in the back that index the hoses and there is one that fits the CC pump so they're available good luck Bill. Greg Burien
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Greg --- This has been tough since the guys on the B302 forum treat this whole conversion either as a "buy it from someone" or infer it's an easy swap.
I still have to go through the nut and bolt listing and figure out the size and length of all the new fasteners.
I won't bore you with the 4 other concurrent projects going on including the work to put in another shop heater. I do so hate the cold and the cold concrete.
According to the MPC there are two different parts called 3C510!
The split seems to be at post 67 since this year and previous don't use a hose index. Instead they use a strap to keep the back of the pump from moving. Somewhere around the 68 time the hose index came into play. Perhaps it's when the main bracket change from an aluminum stamping to a steel stamping (like the Boss) that also supported the rear at the pump outlet.
Anyway, here is a pic of the other 3C510.
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Ok, I just spied a later picture and either Ford changed their mind on part numbers or the earlier MPCs have the rear support or hose retainer called out wrong.
The pic below shows the hose retainer as a 3C511.
Unless someone pops in real quick I'll update this post after I do some more MPC searching.
EDIT -- I do not see a 70 B302 3C511 hose index bracket listed.
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Ok, I just spied a later picture and either Ford changed their mind on part numbers or the earlier MPCs have the rear support or hose retainer called out wrong.
Is the subject and in turn the engineering or part number listed in the Assembly Manual?
Difficult to determine which might be a mistake or just a change with only two differing resources
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I'll inspect that discontinuity as soon as I get it back! I'll work on that in the next few days.
Digging into this like a dog tugging on a pull toy ...
Just to recap on the issue...
The 67 and 68 p/s pump bracket (3A732) was aluminum. It required a strap on the back in order to stabilize the pump at the rear (3E602).
I believe sometime in 68 Ford decided to use another bracket at the back to hold the steel part of the outlet tube and keep it from moving around. It's called a hose index bracket. This would have been in addition to any rear bracket stabilization device.
Later cars use a steel 3A732 bracket which went over the top of the pump and held the rear of the pump around the outlet. This obviated the requirement of the rear support (3E602). That bracket is in reply 5.
In 70 it appears there were two major SBF 3A732 brackets. One for the 302 and 351W and another for the 351C. The difference was in the position of the outlet. The small Windors were in the middle of the pump and housing. The Cleveland was shifted off to the side. And the outlet was larger. This is shown in reply 5 as well.
Another difference was in the pump reservoir can. While the Windsors still had the normal hose routing, the Cleveland/B302 can routed the inlet and outlet straight down.
The inlet was now a bent tube soldered onto the can so that the hose could come up straight from underneath.
This pic applies:
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/4249-230121174810.jpeg)
The outlet was a curvy affair and paralleled the inlet on its way down.
This pic applies:
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/4249-230121174850.jpeg)
According to other pics I've found it doesn't look like a hose indexing bracket was required -- at the rear. Here is a pic of a dirty 70 351C Mustang as viewed under the car, straight up. The bottom of the fuel pump is to the left.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/4249-230121165247.jpeg)
It appear that there is a tab welded to the inlet pipe and I'm guessing some sort of half circle bracket held the tube in place.
Another option is from this picture of the same area:
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/4249-230121185142.jpeg)
This is a closeup of my first pic and shows a double clip (like a 3) that holds the two tubes together. It's possible the double clip could fasten to the tab above or simply float.
The can that I currently have is shown below:
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/4249-230121165453.jpeg)
There is a spot on the tube where a tab could have been, but that's uncertain.
Since no one has posted a pic of how their Boss is configured, this is all I have up to now.
If you have that "3" clip. let me know!
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I had forgotten about this notation in the 75 MPC.
Using this pic previously posted:
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22112.0;attach=64860;image)
Note an item I had previously failed to notice as I had no pictorial data -- 3E506, lower left.
This noted in the MPC as follows:
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/15/4249-240121230235.jpeg)
The MPC pic is extremely vague as to what this looks like. but it has some "3" resemblance.
The words (which appear fuzzy here) are "CLIP -- P/S HOSE RETAINING".
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The Deadnutson.com site lists an item I have never seen. My focus is on the Shelby right now so there are many details about the 70 cars that I haven't really looked at.
Sure I own a Boss, but I haven't owned any other 70 Mustangs. The 67 and 70 P/S systems are similar in appearance but when you get right down to it very few of the parts interchange (correctly).
The rubber insulator under the car has a special metal indexing tang to keep the pressure line oriented correctly. Here's a pic from the Deadnutson.com site that shows it installed:
(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-q45wq/images/stencil/800x800/products/963/5245/1970_BOSS_302_Power_Steering_Hose_Bracket_Clip_4__86146.1573176099.jpg)
And here it is all by itself:
(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-q45wq/images/stencil/800x800/products/963/4756/1970_Power_Steering_Hose_Alignment_Bracket.__26578.1566153853.JPG)
Yet another thing to buy for my conversion.
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I found the 1970 P/S line clip at the pump. Comparison photo with the similar clip found on 1971-73 power steering systems. Small clip on the right is 1970.
I think it 'floats', meaning not attached to the reservoir can.
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I just sold this pump on ebay it came from a 70 Cougar with 351C.
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PM to Scott.
Thanks preaction! I REALLY appreciate the picture.
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In an effort to get out as much information as possible, I found this pic of the back of 302/351W vs. 351C pump styles on the WCCC site. I missed this earlier.
I've sourced a number of parts from them in the past and recommend them without reservation!
Edit to add numeric engine size.
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I'm baaack.
In the pic above the notes under each type say (third column):
Port Location Port Size Notes
Center outlet port || small outlet port || All engines except 1970 small block
Offset outlet port || Large outlet port || 351W/351C Boss 302
which I don't believe is correct. I have the 3A732 bracket for a 302/351W and the size and location of the port is of type "center outlet port."
I believe the "offset outlet port" is only used on the 351C and the 351C head Boss 302.
It may have to do with the configuration of the head and subsequent clearances between the pump, bracket and tube on the back side. On the Boss it puts the inlet hose in a better position for routing the front mounted cooler.
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I'm baaack.
In the pic above the notes under each type say (third column):
Port Location Port Size Notes
Center outlet port || small outlet port || All engines except 1970 small block
Offset outlet port || Large outlet port || 351W/351C Boss 302
which I don't believe is correct. I have the 3A732 bracket for a 302/351W and the size and location of the port is of type "center outlet port."
I believe the "offset outlet port" is only used on the 351C and the 351C head Boss 302.
It may have to do with the configuration of the head and subsequent clearances between the pump, bracket and tube on the back side. On the Boss it puts the inlet hose in a better position for routing the front mounted cooler.
When I wrote that listing many moons ago, it was directed at Cougar owners.
That one year, 1970 pump was used on 1970 - 351W, 351C, and Boss 302. I don't know about F code 302-2V, or any of 6 cylinder engines in a 1970 Mustang or other Ford / Mercury..
Was not used on 1970 428CJ.
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Thanks for clearing that up.
I'm trying to wade through the 70 P/S morass and, as you can see, the water is murky.
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Ok, the 70 Chassis Assy Manual was ordered new. No idea where it went.
I'm looking specifically at the 302 H.O. installation.
1st pic is of the back of the pump. View 1 shows the clip as D0DA-3E506-A.
2nd pic is of the clip itself in cross section.
3rd pic is of the B302 installation.
I should have a clip from WCCC soon. Phew...another unkown item closed out.
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Is the subject and in turn the engineering or part number listed in the Assembly Manual?
Difficult to determine which might be a mistake or just a change with only two differing resources
I did find that 3C511 is also the name of a "group". I'm not sure what that means, but a quick search through the MPC will net you all sorts of P/S parts identifed as 3C511.
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After I got the clip I also found a kinda/sorta version on an early Bronco pump I have. Just never thought to look at that pump.
After looking at the pics at WCCC I thought I got a great deal on a 70 only center link (on The Auction Site). Silly me. After all the babble on the net about how the 67-69 steering (less B2 and Shelby) system is very similar (except for control inlet size) it turns out that's not right either.
The 67 and 68 P/S drag links look very much the same. The 69 has a very different bend at the idler.
In the attached pic you will find the 69 only on top and the 67-68 on the bottom. While they may functionally interchange (do they?) they are not identical.
The 70 drag link may look identical to the 69 and have the same hole-to-hole dimension and length but it is thicker in diameter and has larger tie rod holes.
The 1970 drag link is about 0.850 inches thick, the 67-69 are about 0.790 inches thick.
Off to spend more money at WCCC.
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On another topic.
I just bought a reproduction coil bracket on this forum from Kcodecoupe. The Boss 302 forum isn't clear if all B2s came with this bracket. I suspect so. Although my engine is matching a few things have been previously changed out and I did not have this bracket.
If you have a tach dash the oil pressure gauge from the standard dash is replaced with a low pressure light (idiot light) in order to fit the tach. The sender for the light is just a small switch screwed into the block (or extension).
This switch is small enough that it doesn't matter if you have P/S or not.
(https://storeimages-westcoastclassic.netdna-ssl.com/dc/11348/1536960856_w.jpg)
If you have the standard dash you retain the oil pressure gauge in the dash and you have the dome shaped oil pressure sender.
(https://storeimages-westcoastclassic.netdna-ssl.com/dc/11349/1520881823_r.jpg?sessionthemeid=26)
If you have manual steering the sender is on the end of a hex extension.
If you have power steering the dome shaped sender doesn't fit.
So a small flex hose extension is required to fit the sender above the P/S pump.
See pic of fitting and as installed.
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Hopefully last post about drag links.
Top is 67/68 power steering drag link.
Middle is 69 only power steering drag link.
Bottom is the 70 only power steering drag link.
The 70 is visibly thicker, has the larger tie rod holes and is a hefty mother.
Thanks, WCCC.
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Here is my list of items required for the conversion so far.
It does not include nuts and bolts.
I have:
- Special pump (offset, large outlet)
- Special can (offset, large outlet and special routing of return)
- Dip stick
- Main Pump bracket (offset)
- Pump pulley (rare)
- Crank pulley (rare and expensive)
- P/S to water pump adj bracket
- Offset water pump pulley
- Twin hose bracket under car
- Ram to Frame bracket
- Drag Link (70 only!)
- Return hose (bulk NOS with no ends)
- NOS 2 small hoses
- Idler
- HBA-CC Tag
In the used parts pile I have
- Ram
- 68-70 control head, large hole
- Might use my B9/SCJ cooler
Need:
- Threaded Return hose ( from control valve -- connect to bulk)
- Pressure hose (pump to control)
- Rebuild kit for control valve and ram
- Nutserts in frame for ram bracket
- I may reconsider my used idler arm
- Belts and other misc.
Reuse:
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Don't forget the HBA-CC pump tag. It also works as a washer for the reservoir nuts.
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Oh, you're right Scott.
I bought that tag from WCCC a while back.
I've updated my list above.
I should probably update the list above with part numbers to be complete but I need to build some cars!