ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1970 Mustang => Topic started by: 1970 Snake on June 08, 2020, 03:12:13 PM
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I have a rebuilt Carter X 4441S fuel pump on my 428 CJ which as been rebuilt with a new pump kit. My question is has anyone had issues with this pump building to much fuel pressure so the carb fuel bowl floats will not control the fuel levels in the front and back bowls of the correct Holley AB carb, which has also been refurbished and rebuilt.
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I have a rebuilt Carter X 4441S fuel pump on my 428 CJ which as been rebuilt with a new pump kit. My question is has anyone had issues with this pump building to much fuel pressure so the carb fuel bowl floats will not control the fuel levels in the front and back bowls of the correct Holley AB carb, which has also been refurbished and rebuilt.
You may want to plumb in a temporary fuel pressure gauge to determine how much pressure the pump is making. That may help determine if it is your pump or possibly weak parts in the carb.
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Thanks Bob, yes was thinking that just assumed the Carter X being the stock pump should not be doing that and wanted some feedback on it.
Do you know what ohm resister is needed on the coil for my engine run test stand to replicate the resister wire in the harness??
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Never have had any trouble with X pumps making too much pressure. More likely dirt or corrosion in one of the needle / seats in the carburetor, or perhaps the float is simply set too high. Currently have two cars of my own and a third in the garage all with X pumps and Holley carbs.
I have a rebuilt Carter X 4441S fuel pump on my 428 CJ which as been rebuilt with a new pump kit. My question is has anyone had issues with this pump building to much fuel pressure so the carb fuel bowl floats will not control the fuel levels in the front and back bowls of the correct Holley AB carb, which has also been refurbished and rebuilt.
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Thanks Bob, yes was thinking that just assumed the Carter X being the stock pump should not be doing that and wanted some feedback on it.
Do you know what ohm resister is needed on the coil for my engine run test stand to replicate the resister wire in the harness??
I would contact midlife on this forum. He is the wiring guru. I would like to know also so that I can get rid of the resistor wire that I robbed out of a donor harness. Please post what you find out.
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https://www.summitracing.com/parts/smp-ru-37
(https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/mediumlarge/SMP-RU-37_ml.jpg)
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https://www.summitracing.com/parts/smp-ru-37
(https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/mediumlarge/SMP-RU-37_ml.jpg)
So you have confirmed 1.20 ohms is what the Ford wiring systems uses? There are many different value ballast resistors and the Summit application did not list Ford so it has me wondering.
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1.3 to 1.7 ohms, with 1.5 being typical. When refurbishing harnesses, anything between 1.3 and 1.9 I consider acceptable, considering I don't calibrate my ohm-meter by taking a tare reading.
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I didn't have many options today when sourcing a coil ballast resistor, and this before I saw Midlife's post, and settle for an MSD 0.8 ohm unit. I installed it to get my engine/cam break-in done today and it worked flawlessly connected to the coil, and a full 12V to the pertronix ignition in the distributor.
Regarding the fuel pump, I had a squeeze bulb in the temp fuel line to prime the pump and I believe the check valve in the squeeze bulb was causing pressure issues in the pump. Also the front bowl on the carb had a piece install incorrectly by the rebuilder and was causing the float to stick in one position sometimes. I also check the Carter X for fuel pressure and it puts out about 7 psi dead headed against a pressure gauge I put on the temporary fuel line when I had the carb removed.
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Also many after market coils have a internal resistor they can run 12v to them with out them getting hot.for instance I have a bunch of new pertronix epoxy coils that are short and stubby looking like a Ford coil instead of the typical tall GM style coil. I have them that use the resistor like OEM Ford and others that run on 12v like the igniter ignition. They have been obsolete for about 5 years now. I paint them the yellow top color. They are for those that besides running the pertronix pointless ignition want the 40,000 volt pertronix coil that looks very close to the OEM yellow top. PM me if anyone is interested.
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So you have confirmed 1.20 ohms is what the Ford wiring systems uses? There are many different value ballast resistors and the Summit application did not list Ford so it has me wondering.
The one quoted is on the low ohm reading end.
If you want a higher ohm (1.6), here that is:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/upd-s1210
Ford won't be listed since they use a wire and these weren't used by the factory (that I'm aware).
But in those cases where the wire burnt up I've seen them used with a regular 12v wire. Looks very Mopar when used on a Ford.
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The one quoted is on the low ohm reading end.
If you want a higher ohm (1.6), here that is:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/upd-s1210
Ford won't be listed since they use a wire and these weren't used by the factory (that I'm aware).
But in those cases where the wire burnt up I've seen them used with a regular 12v wire. Looks very Mopar when used on a Ford.
Cobra ,Tiger, Griffith and maybe other Ford powered used ballast resistor. Mainly wanted to know for if using a Ford coil on a engine test stand. As a alternative as I mentioned is using a coil that has a built in resistor.
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Bob, can you advise what the approximate oil pressure should be at idle on a 428 CJ running a Melling HV oil pump.
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Bob, can you advise what the approximate oil pressure should be at idle on a 428 CJ running a Melling HV oil pump.
I would contact RoyceP on this forum .
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It all depends on condition of the engine. Everything right with a new Melling HV pump it ought to read 30 - 40 PSI at idle warm. Maybe 50 - 60 at higher RPM warm.
Often rebuilders do things to modify the oil system like installing restrictors at the rocker shafts or the passages leading to the rocker shafts. This can cause higher pressure readings.
On the other hand sometimes builders don't understand FE engines and they install the rocker shafts upside down or use worn shafts or worn rockers or have a leak at the rocker stand that supplies oil pressure to the rockers. This can result in lower oil pressure and is dangerous.
Doug Garifo sells a shim kit that results in 85 - 100 PSI from the HV pump. This is dangerous on a street driven car as you can blow up an oil filter on a cold morning.
I would contact RoyceP on this forum .
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Thanks Royce, I did all the oil gallery mods, top end restrictor and correct down positioning of the rocker shaft holes. I did all the assembly and measured all bearing clearances and all within spec. Yes cold start I am getting your defined readings with 10-30 comp cams break-in oil with 80 psi at 2K rpm. Run temp idle 20 psi, 2500 rpm 45 psi, 4000 rpm 65 psi. After doing a bunch of reading online its seems pretty standard to have 10-15 psi or less at idle on a run temp engine. As you can see from my engine test run stand pic I am also running an engine oil cooler setup (cooler bypassed) which also has a relief in it, I am assuming that will not have an impact on engine oil pressures.
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That's mighty thin oil. Might make better pressure with a more typical oil for FE's like Valvoline Racing 20W-50.
Oil cooler should make no difference in pressure.
Everything that you mention sounds normal with 10W-30 on a hot day.
Thanks Royce, I did all the oil gallery mods, top end restrictor and correct down positioning of the rocker shaft holes. I did all the assembly and measured all bearing clearances and all within spec. Yes cold start I am getting your defined readings with 10-30 comp cams break-in oil with 80 psi at 2K rpm. Run temp idle 20 psi, 2500 rpm 45 psi, 4000 rpm 65 psi. After doing a bunch of reading online its seems pretty standard to have 10-15 psi or less at idle on a run temp engine. As you can see from my engine test run stand pic I am also running an engine oil cooler setup (cooler bypassed) which also has a relief in it, I am assuming that will not have an impact on engine oil pressures.
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Thanks, yes was planning on running 20-50 later, thinking possibly Amsoil Z-rod synthetic after 1 or 2K on the engine, just wanted the 10-30 for break-in and initial easy running.
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If it's a flat tappet cam I would drain the oil after the 20 minute lifter break in. Install Amsoil if you like, it won't hurt anything nor will it justify its higher price.
Thanks, yes was planning on running 20-50 later, thinking possibly Amsoil Z-rod synthetic after 1 or 2K on the engine, just wanted the 10-30 for break-in and initial easy running.
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Yes definitely changing the oil and filter now after the break-in run yesterday. LOL is there anything cheap in this hobby, I like the AMSOIL Z-ROD Synthetic Motor Oil formulation as it is specifically designed for classic and high-performance vehicles, and has a high-zinc content to help prevent wear on flat-tappet camshafts, which I am running, and its blended with rust and corrosion inhibitors for additional protection during long-term storage. I was just thinking I would run a non-synthetic quality high zinc oil for the first 1000 miles or so for additional run in and then go to the synthetic, although there are a number of schools of thought around the whole topic of engine break-in and when to run synthetic. Thanks for your input.
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"I also check the Carter X for fuel pressure and it puts out about 7 psi dead headed against a pressure gauge I put on the temporary fuel line when I had the carb removed."
7 psi is kinda pushing it with the stock Holley carb. The fuel pressure is determined by the spring on the pump diaphragm. I have a little over 5 psi from a rebuilt 4441X pump on my q code. Where did you get your rebuild kit ?
John
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Good to know we have the same numbers, the speed shop told me that the holleys will handle 8 psi but if I was running a Edlebrock they don't like more than 5 psi.
I can't remember where I got the kit, its been a while and I buy parts from many different vendors.
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Just a follow up I rechecked my rebuilt Carter X fuel pump with a better gauge dead headed on the to carb fuel line and it puts out exactly 6 psi, not a big difference from my original 7 psi reading but more accurate.